maybe if more US Americans had maps...?

>> ^elysse:
maybe if more US Americans had maps...?


And like... such as...

Over a million Iraqis killed by US soldiers? Wow, I have trouble believing that... that's close to how many civilian casualties were inflicted on the Germans in WW2 by everyone else. Not sure how to vote this one.

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Wednesday, June 25th, 2008 4:45pm PDT - promote requested by Fedquip.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'therealnews, cbs, abc, nbc, commentary, iraq, war, logan' to 'therealnews, cbs, abc, nbc, commentary, iraq, war, lara logan' - edited by calvados

The civilian deaths are not directly caused by US troops. They are "a result of the US invasion". That means that any deaths that can be linked to the destabilized government, lack of police, firefighters, emergency health care, etc. Worse is the rise of local mobs doing neighborhood ethnic or religious cleansing, with little or no deterrents.

>> ^Payback:
Over a million Iraqis killed by US soldiers? Wow, I have trouble believing that... that's close to how many civilian casualties were inflicted on the Germans in WW2 by everyone else. Not sure how to vote this one.


Watch it again....

Over 1 million killed DUE TO THE US OCCUPATION. He did not say directly at the hands of US forces.

What this means is. The US occupation threw the country into chaos, resulting in internal strife and sectarian violence. Most of those 1 million deaths are the direct result of US occupation, causing regional destabilization, AND introduction of active Al Qaeda operatives which DID NOT EXIST until said occupation occurred.

Yes, Saddam was a bastard and did deserve his fate. HOWEVER He did hold tight reign on the factions (namely religious in nature) keeping the country within strong secular bounds. Keeping religious fanatacism under check prevented sectarian violence. Of course, it did not hinder his ability to commit violence against anyone he so deemed to target.

Now we need to look again at why the US invaded. The WMD proclaimed to exist did not. The intelligence was cooked up and has been proven to be completely fabricated. The so called 'freedom' of the Iraqi people was not WHY the US invaded to begin with. The 'freedom' card was played AFTER the invasion by Bush and his gang when the WMD story fell apart at the seams and when the majority blinded by his so called 'morality' and 'faith' was shown to be a sham to garner votes. While Bush was crying 'freedom' for the Iraqi's Karl Rove and Dick Cheney continued to spew the WMD excuse until they were standing in quicksand. Soon thereafter, they shut their traps and also pushed the 'freedom' agenda.

We went to Iraq for oil. We went to Iraq because Saddam was trading oil in Euros instead of the US dollar. We went into Iraq because George Jr wanted revenge on the guy who attempted to assassinate George Sr. But mostly it was all about oil. Resource control. The side benefit is our ability to have an entire nation under military control through the guise of an appointed 'democratic' government. Meanwhile, the US pops up military structures, bases and a massive fortified compound (for command-control-intelligence) right in the heart of the middle east.

A little bit of thought, and you too will see the underlying intentions which the US had from Day #1. Put 1 and 1 together, and you realize that we killed people, tortured people, threw a nation into chaos, and spent trillions of US taxpayer dollars all for what?

Oil.

That is what happens when you elect 'oil men' into the US presidency.

Now, lets go elect McCain and all his ex-Enron, Bush, and Neocon advisers to the US Presidency. Lets see how much better things become.

No. Instead lets use our brains and keep our war/oil profiteering government and their cronies in line. I don't care what party. They are all guilty of this money game costing the lives of untold numbers of people around the world.

Wake up. The US is not a Democracy. It is a Plutocratic Kleptocracy.

Watch out. They are ALL (including Democrats) playing this same game with Iran. Listen, learn, and get your info from MANY sources. Most of what we get fed in the US is biased propoganda, and we are only told PART of the world story.

They want to hit Iran next.

What the hell is this shit?! Where's Paris Hilton? Where's Britney Spears?! This is hogwash! I want my news the way I like it!

The lack of coverage by big media is, sadly, nothing new. It's great to see it condemned, though I think the daily show manages to do so more effectively, and it's a comedy program. I like the RealNews(all news actually) better when it's doing news rather than editorializing.

As for reading more into the lack of Iraq coverage as to any pro-war agenda, remember that the media's short attention span is equal opportunity with everything. The Iraq-Iran war, the gassing of the Kurds, Cambodia, Serbia, Rwanda and so on.

On the cover of the New York Post this morning was a smear article about Lara Logan. Pathetic and enraging.

^thats hella fucked up

When I saw "Iraq story buried by US networks" I figured it had to be good news.

There's a total blackout/burial of good news out of Iraq by America's mainstream media, which wants us to lose.


According to this site

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

which is against the war

this sift's numbers are full of crap.


Our less than 200,000 US troops would have a hard time staying if the 28 million Iraqis wanted us gone.

Lara Logan is a smart cookie; at the very least she's an extremely articulate one.

Er.. I hate to tell you this Quantummushroom, but IraqBodyCount.com is one of the sites whose numbers are actually quoted in the video... did you watch it?

And are you suggesting there is a group of citizens of the United States that WANT the US to lose a war?

Perhaps I'm not here enough to know a troll when I see one, but that's just ridiculous. Also, if you were being sarcastic, cancel all this out and chalk up one gullible bastard to your list.

It's really pretty simple... The surge worked. Violence is down. There aren't bodies littering the streets, and Lara had enough security and safety during her stay in Iraq to have TWO extra-marital affairs. There is not much to talk about except GOOD news, and the media isn't very interested in having to admit things are going pretty well in Iraq.

The simple fact is that the number of news reports has decreased directly in proportion to how successfully the war is being prosecuted. It isn't hard to figure out.

"BATTLE OF THE SEXES: "60 Minutes" star Lara Logan, seen riding a tank in Iraq, allegedly had two paramours at once"

PHOTO GALLERY: Lara Logan
MORE: Vote for the Hottest News Babe

Credibility lost: ALL

Er.. I hate to tell you this Quantummushroom, but IraqBodyCount.com is one of the sites whose numbers are actually quoted in the video... did you watch it?

Yeah. That guy's annoying accent pisses over everything. He obviously doesn't know about America's mainstream media being 98% left-wing, similar to the eurotrash they so admire.

And are you suggesting there is a group of citizens of the United States that WANT the US to lose a war?

Yup. They're the same people who want high gas prices so you'll drive less, guns banned so you're dependent on them for protection (not unlike the mafia), control of childrens' minds in politically-correct government-run schools and computerized thermostats so they can control your home's temperature from remote locations.

This collective sees the United States only as an exploitive gang of evil rich people controlling everyone else from their secret hideout in the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill. To them, there's nothing the USA can do right, it's all about some secret or not-so-secret profit motive.

And yes, this collective I'm describing wants the USA to lose wars, since Vietnam. They believe whatever they want to believe and always have; I'm just here to remind them they have the right to their own opinions but not to their own facts, and this "one million" number is questionable at best and a lie at worst.

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed one million of my countrymen. Prepare to die."

Iraq? Never heard of it.

I've just come to the conclusion that I just don't care anymore. I've had so many people go off on me about the Iraq war and how we should not be there bla bla fricken bla. Sorry don't care I used to but after so many people have jumped on my ass just because I'm from the US, Still Live here and sorry not moving anywhere that its point less. The whole damn thing and heres the kicker, Not one thing, is going to change anything thats happening there not one damn thing. You can scream and shout and though petitions out and its not going to change. So all you self Righteous zeolites can continue to bitch all you want. Don't Care.

Turn off the goddamn television, and you won't be so mad about the bullshit-
Stop paying your taxes to the king, and he will have to come out of his hole and try to kill you for teh slavery he's use to-So wow, a smart lady that tells us how fucked the US is.....buncha morons...

The NYDN article is based on the accusations of a single unnamed source who was probably just making it up in retaliation for her political statements. They don't cite a named source to back up any of it.

Our less than 200,000 US troops would have a hard time staying if the 28 million Iraqis wanted us gone.


Sherman ravaged the South with 62,000 men while the population of the Confederate states of America was 9.1 million. And that was without any tanks, air support, etc. The North's technological advantage over the South was small, while the USA's technological advantage over Iraqi insurgents is huge.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Our less than 200,000 US troops would have a hard time staying if the 28 million Iraqis wanted us gone.


They're having an easy time staying?

>> ^quantumushroom:
and this "one million" number is questionable at best and a lie at worst.


You should tell the doctors and scientists at Johns Hopkins why their numbers are wrong. I'm sure they can learn a lot about epidemiology from you and and your intelligent feedback.

The lack of coverage by big media is, sadly, STRIKINGLY new when you compare it to Vietnam.

Every night The CBS Evening News with Walter Cronkite showed grisly footage of the atrocities going on in Vietnam. Guys with limbs blown off, body bags, dead children, the works. It's what helped end the war. Today you can go Weeks without even a single -mention- of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I listen to local CBS radio for morning traffic reports and haven't heard the word Afghanistan in at least a month.

And so thanks to the governments media control, when it comes time for Payback as it surely will, the American sheeple will once again look at each other and wonder "why do they hate us?!"

They cite http://www.iraqbodycount.org/, which is at ~100,000 documented deaths.

They cite The Lancet's 2006 survey, which found there to likely be ~650,000 casualties of violence. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties)

They also cite British polling group Opinion Research Business's 1,500 person face-to-face survey, which calculates up to 1 million+ casualties. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties)


In my opinion they misleadingly worded the data, acting as if three independent groups with different methods found over 1 million deaths, when that is very much not the case... downvote from me and QM!

You should tell the doctors and scientists at Johns Hopkins why their numbers are wrong. I'm sure they can learn a lot about epidemiology from you and and your intelligent feedback.

Speaking of bullshit numbers, you're supposed to be scared about warm weather and give up what's left of your freedom based on hopelessly inaccurate computer models of weather patterns.

Meanwhile, why don't you libs get a petition together to let the Iraqis know how much you wish they could live under Saddam's and his sons' bootheels again.

I'm just going to say this, and no im not pro war and yes this administration sucks, but say it was all for oil (which it was). Ok we are a rich country that has a massive military and a system so fucked up its not going to change anytime soon and a populace who dont ever want to give up their seat at the top. Is it selfish, sure but is it human nature to want to stay on top and live beyond your means, i think yes. Yes in the end it will all come crashing down (which it is) but isnt it human nature to hold on till the end and just turn to denial, like a type of addiction? I am not saying its right but my point is that if this is all true, didnt Bush do what he had to do to maintain the bloated life the country was living? Even if the people here hate him for it now i think if life was still good and gas was still cheap they wouldnt give a shit, secretly they want to keep what they have by any means necessary. We like to think we are beyond simple resource squabbles but we never will be, whether it be oil, opium, spice, gold, ivory, whatever. Humans for the most part like any other animal wants what it wants and can get spoiled very easily. Again not saying its right but the minority of us who can recognize our flaws as a species should keep that in mind.

QM you dodged my question, and fell back to the "liberal vs conservative" bullshit.

Do you understand that "liberal" issues can be separated? Global warming could be a hoax AND the war in iraq could be illegal unjustified murder, both at the SAME TIME. Try and get your head round that.

>> ^quantumushroom:
You should tell the doctors and scientists at Johns Hopkins why their numbers are wrong. I'm sure they can learn a lot about epidemiology from you and and your intelligent feedback.
Speaking of bullshit numbers, you're supposed to be scared about warm weather and give up what's left of your freedom based on hopelessly inaccurate computer models of weather patterns.
Meanwhile, why don't you libs get a petition together to let the Iraqis know how much you wish they could live under Saddam's and his sons' bootheels again.



There are ethnic mafias going around mass-murdering people and you only want to talk about the small percentage of the casualties that are named in the records?

False dichotomies are always the staple of demagoguery.

What we need to do is keep out noses out of things that do not involve us only until they absolutely involve us. Like WWII the last righteous war ever fought.

The Japanese saw pearl harbor as a Defensive attack. They view defensive as killing the attacker before he attacks, In WWII we had the right to fight and kick ass.

In Vietnam we were fighting the Chinese by proxy, and we failed. All of the wars after WWII are a waste of life and a waste of ammo.

The Iraq war is just for the dollar, thats all its for.

"The war is over so said the speaker
With a flight suit on
Maybe to him im just a pawn
So he can advance
remember when we used to dance
all i wanna do is dance" - "dirty harry" gorillaz

>> ^quantumushroom:
Er.. I hate to tell you this Quantummushroom, but IraqBodyCount.com is one of the sites whose numbers are actually quoted in the video... did you watch it?
Yeah. That guy's annoying accent pisses over everything. He obviously doesn't know about America's mainstream media being 98% left-wing, similar to the eurotrash they so admire.
And are you suggesting there is a group of citizens of the United States that WANT the US to lose a war?
Yup. They're the same people who want high gas prices so you'll drive less, guns banned so you're dependent on them for protection (not unlike the mafia), control of childrens' minds in politically-correct government-run schools and computerized thermostats so they can control your home's temperature from remote locations.
This collective sees the United States only as an exploitive gang of evil rich people controlling everyone else from their secret hideout in the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill. To them, there's nothing the USA can do right, it's all about some secret or not-so-secret profit motive.
And yes, this collective I'm describing wants the USA to lose wars, since Vietnam. They believe whatever they want to believe and always have; I'm just here to remind them they have the right to their own opinions but not to their own facts, and this "one million" number is questionable at best and a lie at worst.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
It's really pretty simple... The surge worked. Violence is down. There aren't bodies littering the streets, and Lara had enough security and safety during her stay in Iraq to have TWO extra-marital affairs. There is not much to talk about except GOOD news, and the media isn't very interested in having to admit things are going pretty well in Iraq.
The simple fact is that the number of news reports has decreased directly in proportion to how successfully the war is being prosecuted. It isn't hard to figure out.

Ya been to Iraq lately? Have you actually walked down those "cleaned up streets?" Sudo educated comments like these are laughable, from the left and the right. Unless you've actually been there I would say it's a far stretch to make such assumptions. The fact that you based your proof on what our American media says or doesn't say was your first mistake.
Lastly who cares if she had 2 or even 10 affairs, does this effect the outcome of the war? It wasts peoples time deflecting the subject like this.