What about that golf-playing, capitalism-hating marxist? He hasn't seemed overly concerned with high unemployment numbers, unless they affect unions or government jobs.

If the taxocrat strategy of raising taxes and increasing government dependency worked, there'd be no need to blame Republicans, who are but a minority now.

We'll find out in November if Americans have had enough anti-American Progressivist BS.

I love how the "jobs" bill mainly spends money on direct payments to people so they don't have to get jobs.

I like what Ed is saying but this is complete bullshit. This is just some commentator installed by huge media corporations to spew the "otherside's" story. This shit is supposed to make you think that there are opposing sides when in reality the democratic party is owned by the republicans (the minority? hah! the minority with all of the corrupt power) and the republicans run this whole shitty oligarchy that we call a free democracy. It's all shit, sorry for being bitter - I love this country but if you're a rep or dem - you suck. Go read some history books and get back to me. The only way to stop all of this weird corruption that has gone on for decades is to buy some heavy weaponry from bechtel or some shit and take this big-box burger shop over. And well, you know, it's just not even worth it. Time to finally move to Sweden.

There is a huge Homeland Security building down the street from me. I bet someone in there reads everything on sites like this... the building looks like something out of Darth Vader's Empire, like it could be a huge square building coming out of the death star... so I want to take the opportunity to say, "hey Homeland Security lick my fucking taint you pieces of shit, come and get me you constitution burning rodent mafia douchebags!!!!"

Tell your children and your children's children to vote local, vote indie or green. It's the only way.

Why are all your posts full of slogans and obvious exaggerations? Is it that hard to make your argument without them?>> ^quantumushroom:

What about that golf-playing, capitalism-hating marxist? He hasn't seemed overly concerned with high unemployment numbers, unless they affect unions or government jobs.
If the taxocrat strategy of raising taxes and increasing government dependency worked, there'd be no need to blame Republicans, who are but a minority now.
We'll find out in November if Americans have had enough anti-American Progressivist BS.

>> ^shagen454:

...There is a huge Homeland Security building down the street from me. I bet someone in there reads everything on sites like this... the building looks like something out of Darth Vader's Empire, like it could be a huge square building coming out of the death star... so I want to take the opportunity to say, "hey Homeland Security lick my fucking taint you pieces of shit, come and get me you constitution burning rodent mafia douchebags!!!!
DHS would *never* do such a thing! That's the CIA's and the NSA's job!

Ed and the left is such full of Bull Shit... Get off you ASSES and find or create a job... Quit leaching of the backs of WORKING Americans. Get some backbone. Get some Personal responsibility. I can see a helping hand but 1 1/2 years of unemployment to too much.

You stupid asses, The Republicans have Zero control. This has been a Democrat controlled Nation since 2006.

The Democrats have trashed this great country by turning this into a welfare entitled nation.

Why is Greece collapsing? -- Entitlements. USA spending is 1/2 its budget in Entitlements. WE are laying our dept onto out grandchildren. How Fucking Shameful.
This Entitlement altitude (spending) has got to stop.

Social security is bankrupt There is nothing there but an IOU.
1/2 our States are on the edge of failing.
The Left was pissed at Bush from wiping out Clinton's Surplus
This President/Congress has Spent more in 1 1/2 years than Bush did in 8.
Where is the outrage now?

Everyone who votes for spending money on something with out cutting out spending from somewhere else needs to be Voted out.

Job's bill? You can legislate jobs into existence...who knew! Legislate me some blonds while your at it!

>> ^bobknight33:

This has been a Democrat controlled Nation since 2006.

Stupid is as stupid does.

The jobs bill had 57 votes in favor, 41 against, and failed.

When Democrats have a 75 vote majority, maybe then we'll get to be in control.

Because democracy is all about controlling others whom don't share the same opinion.

Did you know you can ignore trolls on Videosift? It's true! There's a link for that right below "profile reply"!

>> ^RedSky:

Why are all your posts full of slogans and obvious exaggerations? Is it that hard to make your argument without them?

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

Because democracy is all about controlling others whom don't share the same opinion.


Actually it's all about trying to work out which objective standards of behavior our society expects of its citizens, without having some king or set of stone tablets set those limits for us without recourse.

>> ^NetRunner:

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
Because democracy is all about controlling others whom don't share the same opinion.

Actually it's all about trying to work out which objective standards of behavior our society expects of its citizens, without having some king or set of stone tablets set those limits for us without recourse.


I am lost in recursion there! Isn't a society just a group of citizens! Let's do direct replacement! "...behavior our group of citizens expects of its individual citizens" Whew, that feels better! Sometimes I get lost in ambiguity, I wonder if others do as well.

I would agree that is what democracy is, but I also see that like Socrates did, as groups stealing power away from individuals. In fact, that is what you see now, groups of people making grabs for power to take advantage of other groups and individuals. Group think is more powerful than individuals, so democracies tend to have this leaning towards the same type of tyranny as a monarchy. I don't know how to undo this evil and still have liberty. Perhaps it is as Jefferson put it with the blood of patriots. Perhaps that is what he was really talking about, entropy of any given system? The best that man can make lasts not against the ravages of time? Perhaps this is the sad reality we face, or perhaps we can take solace in the fact and start the rebirth of what has/is dying?

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

I am lost in recursion there! Isn't a society just a group of citizens! Let's do direct replacement! "...behavior our group of citizens expects of its individual citizens" Whew, that feels better! Sometimes I get lost in ambiguity, I wonder if others do as well.
I would agree that is what democracy is, but I also see that like Socrates did, as groups stealing power away from individuals. In fact, that is what you see now, groups of people making grabs for power to take advantage of other groups and individuals. Group think is more powerful than individuals, so democracies tend to have this leaning towards the same type of tyranny as a monarchy. I don't know how to undo this evil and still have liberty. Perhaps it is as Jefferson put it with the blood of patriots. Perhaps that is what he was really talking about, entropy of any given system? The best that man can make lasts not against the ravages of time? Perhaps this is the sad reality we face, or perhaps we can take solace in the fact and start the rebirth of what has/is dying?


Yep, lost in recursion you are.

Who decides what individual rights are? You? Me? Something some guy wrote on stone tablets or parchment long ago? Maybe it should be up to the guy with the most money, or maybe just the most military power?

With about 5 minutes of self-reflection, you should realize that what you're struggling to come to grips with is that a) your view of morality isn't popular, and b) you think your morals should be popularly accepted as the only right and true ones, and c) realize that peaceful persuasion probably will never get you a lasting, permanent majority who agree with you so d) you start thinking revolution is the answer.

And through all this, you refuse to view your thoughts as being anything other than supporting liberty against tyranny when you have literally described how tyranny fights against liberty.

The beginning of understanding democracy is to admit that maybe the people who think differently from you have a legitimate point of view, and might even be tapped into a facet of the truth to which you might be oblivious.

It's a belief in the idea that if two heads are better than one, two hundred million heads are probably better than one, and that the only way to ever perfect anything -- including justice -- is through a perpetual debate over the issues in a forum where no ideology has an unassailable monopoly on our thinking.

HA, wow, I don't know where to start on this one. First off, I was feeling super good and fun about my reply, lighthearted and playful if you will. Then you go and paint this grim picture of my "life" and world view, thanks!

My world view isn't popular? Even though I debate as to how true this statement is, it isn't even relevant. Eating sushi may or may not be popular, but hardly a meaningful event. Even more so when that is exactly the conversation we are having, majorities silencing out minorities.

I want mine to be accepted is true in a sense, but ultimately isn't my chief concern. Everyone thinks they are right, or else they would change their mind (with some exceptions). Either that, or they choose to remain agnostic. But ultimately, "I" don't want people to believe me, I would want them to accept it on their own. My days of prosthelytizing are done. But, when people misrepresent or my views aren't represented I feel as if something is missing. Many times on these threads you get the same reinforced thoughts which over time start to lack proper consideration of different elements. It is nice to break those up and make sure you don't trap yourself into a type of thinking without room to consider other things. It is the only reason I post on these types of usually fruitless threads. In the hopes that it does blossom into a meaningful conversation, usually both parties are left wanting.

To your third point, that seems to be even more grandiose than I would ever dare. I don't care about "the masses" of people swooning to my footsteps. Mainly I care about those 2-20 people that I regularly interact with, you included! If our conversation doesn't enlighten either one of us, then we waste our time and energy!

Revolution is always the answer! But that doesn't necessitate that it be a violent one. There have been many a intellectual revolution that fired narry a shot! But if you want real structural change of powers and whatnot, people do not usually cede power with grace. To be clear, I am not a violent man, I can't even stand the sight of my own blood. It was merely a commentary on the human condition that has driven the past 7000 years of recorded human history, that change usually is violent. It isn't desirable, but it seems to be par for course.

What I described wasn't how liberty undermines itself, but how in the current expression of it does. Pure democracy seems to me to be only a temporary reprieve from moral dictation. In time, groups overpower each other and make rules the other can't quickly change and thus spirals out of control. This isn't to say that all systems of liberty will undermine themselves, but things with pure democracy at the core seem to trend that way. The jury is out, perhaps we can save this one, but for certain, it is in need of saving.

As to the belief that 2 heads are better than one; for certain, they are at some tasks. Get 300 million heads try and figure out what they want for dinner though, and your asking for a hard time! For certain, some place were we can all address common issues HAS to exist. I mean, it just has to! My only problem has always been who gets to do that. For me, I would always prefer it not be the people with the guns. Sometimes it has to be them, but sometimes I think the job falls to them because of reasoning that I think runs counter those root things that we wanted to protect. Anyway, it is late and I ramble.

In the end, I wanted to say that I found your comments slightly persnickety, but perhaps I brought it on myself. I was being silly and playful and not knowing me better it could be taken as trying to knock wind out of you sail...which I wasn't trying to do. So my apologies if I was sounding like an ass, I meant to be a funny ass!

In the words of Prof. Bernardo de la Paz: "I accept any rules you think you need for yourself. I will continue to live by my own."