*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

you should throw in the bean bag round factoid into the actual description. for a second there i was thinking they were actually firing buckshot into the crowd.

Agreed on the bean bag disclaimer. But, the guy's reaction is pretty funny, upset in a wtf kind of way...

"I didn't do anything"? What egocentric bullshit. Why are you getting closer to the action where cops are telling you to move away? Why on earth would you walk with the rioters when the police are actively telling you to disperse?

This naive 백소년's logic of the role of his bystander-ness is flawed. Most likely some individuals were involved in illegal activities to have triggered the cops to act at first. So cops try to look for these individuals, but the individual disappears into the crowd. Police tries to search for the individual.

Now this is the important part. It's most likely that the crowd of bystanders got in the way of the cops, saying they didn't have anything to do with the illegal activity, so they shouldn't have to do anything or comply to cop's requests.

There are two things the bystanders are doing wrong:

1. Actively getting in the way of the cop's official duty.
2. Failure to disassociate themselves from the illegal activity.

See, what the bystanders forget is that you can't just stand there and let shit happen. It's common knowledge that if you see someone murdering a person or let your friend drink and drive, and didn't do anything to stop them, you are charged for contempt as well. When you are a bystander, it doesn't mean that you are responsible for everyone else's action. But at least when someone acts in a way you disagree with, you are obliged to ACTIVELY part yourself from that activity. Point the person out, or at least move away from the individual to disassociate yourself.

This is not so much to ask. Remind yourselves what you would have to do when you have witnessed a murder scene or saw your drunk friend with the car keys. In these situations, if you aren't able to prevent the illegal activity yourself, you are obligated to report to the police right away. In a crowded setting you often don't know who have committed the crime or let alone know if there is a crime being committed. So you haven't witnessed it first hand, but you are still obliged to disassociate yourself from the crime scene. So what's so hard about just walking away from group of people who have reportedly been doing illegal things?

Saying you are innocent at a crime scene and then actively walking toward the cops who are telling you to clear the area does not make you innocent. Because now you are purposely getting in the way of cops official business. When they tell you to move away, MOVE AWAY. Why are you disregarding the cops request? Why the FUCK are you approaching a group of cops who has their weapons drawn out? And notice how the film doesn't show what illegal activity was going on that triggered the cop's response, and only show the parts where cops are crackin' heads.

Know your civic duties before claiming you are being violated of your rights. Naive, biased, hotheaded youth of America.

I went into town one evening a few weeks ago and saw a big crowd of people. I decided to walk up and see what was going on. Turned out the Olympic torch was passing through and they were putting on a show of it; and man it was pretty slick.

But now that I've read you're post I realise how stupid I was. I could have been associating myself with all kinds of horrible crimes; maybe even murder or drink driving! And as I wasn't ACTIVELY disassociating myself from the activities before me I was justifiably laying myself down to the mercy of any reckless police officer that may be in the vicinity. If one of them shot me, I would have felt foolish and would have only myself to blame. Thanks for the info!

Or rather, without the smart ass stuff, you're post has a major flaw. You failed to specify any crime that this naive, biased, hothead youth of America was supposed to be disassociating himself from.

>> ^legacy0100:
Know your civic duties before claiming you are being violated of your rights. Naive, biased, hotheaded youth of America.

I'm sure you have your own point of view that sees things a bit differently. From my personal experience as an immigrant minority, I feel that cops treat everyone fairly and only use force when they are called upon to stop people from violating the law.

I also do not live my life assuming that cops attack a group of 'peaceful' protesters for no apparent reason. You may have personally experienced or second-handedly heard of cops mistreating civilians for no apparent reason. I have never been unfairly treated by the police during my lifetime and I believe that the second-hand reports of mistreatment often depend on the context of the situation. Sometimes we are right to claim injustice, sometimes we are not. We are right to punish those who practice injustice, but those rare cases of injustice should not overshadow all of the police force that consists of good officers who have done their job well.

Personally I do not worry about police officers cracking my head open when I go outside to watch the Olympic torch runners pass by, because I feel safe to be with a crowd of people who are cheery and supportive. But I will definitely be afraid of being near a group of rioters engaging a riot squad.

I believe that everything has a reason and just cause. You may hold a different belief about our society and authority figures, and that's your way of seeing the world. I would not argue that your way of living is the wrong way to live just because it is different from mine. We each have different life experiences to example our view about the police and authority figures, and it is unfortunate that we do not see every matter the same way.

Well I admit it, you have me confused.

I agree. Crowds gather for a reason.
>> ^legacy0100:

"I didn't do anything"? What egocentric bullshit. Why are you getting closer to the action where cops are telling you to move away? Why on earth would you walk with the rioters when the police are actively telling you to disperse?

>> ^legacy0100:

From my personal experience as an immigrant minority, I feel that cops treat everyone fairly and only use force when they are called upon to stop people from violating the law.

I think you forgot to check the sarcasm box before submitting your post.


Based on just what I heard here there was no reason to shoot this guy, unless you have more information about what happened there then your own ideas on what happened are just as much speculation as anyone else.

I went into town the other day and tons of kids were turning cars over in the street and lighting them on fire. I own a car shop so I wanted to hand out some business cards. The fumes were thick so I wrapped my face in a bandana so I could breathe easier...

http://www.laactivist.com/2012/07/14/police-arrests-over-chalking-leads-to-uprising/

Obviously, this site is biased, but they seem to make the argument that the beanbags were a direct response to peaceful and non-destructive protest.

Also, the site uses the term "ironically" incorrectly:

"Ironically, the protester, Christopher MacKinney, was chalking, 'A police state is more expensive than a welfare state — we guarantee it,' at the time of his arrest."

That's not ironic, if you think they have a legitimate gripe. It'd only be ironic if they were being arrested while making this statement, but, in fact, we could show that a police state was more efficient...

...or if they audience has additional information...never mind...

Beanbag rounds are a "less than lethal" option for law enforcement. Most policemen don't like shooting and killing people. There are cases like when a person gets extremely drunk or high and begins running around with a knife. At some point they might lunge at a person or the police, forcing the lawman to shoot. Cases like that are why beanbag rounds were invented. They are NOT meant for crowd control! I am a psych tech and worked with a patient who had been shot by one. He was involved in a standoff with police. He was holding a knife and threatening to kill himself. after negotiations failed, they shot him with the beanbag and he instantly dropped the knife and complied. The round shattered his kneecap & the tissue around his knee was black and purple. Those rounds are no joke!

Fuck anyone who thinks someone should be shot at for being in a crowd. Even if they're being commanded to move by the police. This is fucking bullshit and I can't believe anyone thinks that it is okay!!

If I was part of an angry mob who were moving on and threatening the police, then yes, I understand they have the need to defend themselves. This is the only instance where I imagine a use of force 'could' be warranted.

I don't know the full story of this video, so I'm not talking about this particular case. Just in general, NO we should NEVER stand for violence, especially if we're not posing the threat of violence to someone.

A crowd at the Olympic torch events will be rather different to one that is being yelled at by armed police. I took part in one and the only armed police were walking around chatting to people and smiling.

I don't trust what this guy says, frankly. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and I don't know he's lying, but have you ever heard someone say "haha, yeah, I totally deserved that"? He was probably knowingly doing something he shouldn't have been.

Having said that, he very probably didn't deserve to get shot with a rubber bullet for what he was doing.

It's funny how people stick up for the cops. Fuck off.

@legacy0100

you are a legacy in your own mind. but right now, you're just proving yourself to be a jackass.

^@legacyO100 is a jackass?!!????

He doesn't call anyone names. He acknowledges that there is more than one point of view. He explains his personal experience.

To me, he is the exact opposite of a jackass. I find him thoughtful and intelligent.

@legacy0100

Whoops, my link didn't work.... see above for the comment I meant to direct at you.

You also didnt have a megaphone blasting at you requesting you leave that area. Safe to say there was no need to immediately disperse, and had they all been hanging around watching someone get stabbed then you should have left and called the cops.

>> ^L0cky:

I went into town one evening a few weeks ago and saw a big crowd of people. I decided to walk up and see what was going on. Turned out the Olympic torch was passing through and they were putting on a show of it; and man it was pretty slick.
But now that I've read you're post I realise how stupid I was. I could have been associating myself with all kinds of horrible crimes; maybe even murder or drink driving! And as I wasn't ACTIVELY disassociating myself from the activities before me I was justifiably laying myself down to the mercy of any reckless police officer that may be in the vicinity. If one of them shot me, I would have felt foolish and would have only myself to blame. Thanks for the info!
Or rather, without the smart ass stuff, you're post has a major flaw. You failed to specify any crime that this naive, biased, hothead youth of America was supposed to be disassociating himself from.
>> ^legacy0100:
Know your civic duties before claiming you are being violated of your rights. Naive, biased, hotheaded youth of America.

Charlie needs to friend Situational Awareness on Facebook.