Thune got pwned.

He's like the foundation block for reason in the US legislature.

Franken is awesome. SO GLAD he got elected.

ownage

What's with the bad editing?

I love the way it degenerates into just a two-man comedic drilling towards the end.

Take it!

When he said "he doesn't want to hear it", did he ever nail it. I think that's one of the things that pisses me off about politics the most and shows plain as day who the partisan hacks are. I've encountered people who ignore the facts, facts that are indisputable, because they don't like them and it's all I can do to keep from knocking their teeth down their throat. It's like crooks who get caught and deny it even when they see the 1080p footage of them committing the crime.

Both of them have a point. Thune is right. The TAXES on the health care bill being discussed in the Senate do kick in almost immediately - and there are many of ascpects of the plan that do NOT kick in for years (very curiously, not until right after the elections... Hmmmm...). So if voters think they are going to get 'free' or 'public' insurance any time soon then they are very much mistaken and that needs to be brought up. Franken has a point because some benefits do start up soon, and to talk like nothing happens for 4 years except the taxes is not accurate either. From my perspective, they're both doing the exact same thing by - ahem - choosing thier own facts. I give Franken no points here. He's got no moral high ground, and worse he is a far greater rhetorical hypocrite.

56% of the public doesn't want this crappy bill. The bill is against the spirit and letter of the prescribed powers of government. There are far better and cheaper solutions that are entirely private in nature. This bill deserves to die a flaming death for many substantive reasons. I whole-heartedly support any argument or initiative that buries this stinkburger forever by whatever means possible. The bill is not about providing health care. It is a top-down, government run wealth redistribution scheme. Boo - hiss.

56% of WHO? Who was asked, and what were they asked? Who conducted the polling? Fox News?

If I asked people who don't have health insurance, whether getting affordable or free health coverage would be good, I'd get 100%. If I asked old, super-rich, republicans if, poor, uneducated, democrats should get health coverage, 0% would say 'its needed'. So right off the bat, Winstonfield, is arguing not facts, but an arguement he cant prove correct.

The health care bill, does NOT go against the spirit NOR the letter of the prescribed powers of goverment. Maybe Winstonfield could expand on this subject, beyond the one word fear sentence, and provide a few FACTS.

The purpose of the health care bill is multi-level depth and penetration (think metaphorically of a box with an X x Y x Z dimensions to it). ONE, of the many things within the bill, explains how a goverment run health coverage would operated. The costs AND the benefits would go live on day 1. Its all there, for the public to see. And its not a 'top-down, goverment run wealth redistrubtion scheme', as Winstonfield, fearfully thinks. But then, as a republican, Winstonfield (like all other republicans it seems), holds a greater intolerance to fear, then most Americans who are level headed. If you told a republican that the Obama Administration had a plan to outlaw the 2nd Amendment, and then provided flimzy evidence to support it; they would be running to the nearest gun shop, and maxing out their credit and taking a 2nd mortage on their house. No, that's really not an exaggeration. I wish it was, and I was merely talking in jest.

I think Mr. Franken did an excellent job, in presenting the questions and arguements. And that this Mr. Thule should READ and UNDERSTAND the health care bill before opening his mouth.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I whole-heartedly support any argument or initiative that buries this stinkburger forever by whatever means possible. The bill is not about providing health care. It is a top-down, government run wealth redistribution scheme. Boo - hiss.
Amen to that. I can't stand the thought of my doctor becoming a government employee, and yet the libs are trying to ram this bill down our throats. I want my tax money going to useful things, like the military, NOT to lying liberals who want someone choosing what proceedures my insurance will cover.

Who? FOX news?!?!? (frothing & drooling at the mouth & subsequent wiping of foam from lips)

Quit your conspiracy theory ramblings. This was Rasumussen.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

The internals of the data plainly show that the only people who really support this bill are 'party line' Democrats (who support the bill 71%). Party line Republicans oppose it (81%). But - most importantly - 69% of UNAFFILIATED VOTERS oppose the bill. Facts. Learn to FIND them as opposed to just assuming your Democrat puppet-masters are telling the truth.

But yes - I'm sure if you stacked your poll with all Democrat, uninsured people you'd get the numbers you WANT (I.E. what Franken calls 'choosing your facts'). However, you would NOT get an actual measurement of what the American public at large think.

And yes - large scale federal powers without checks, balances, supervision, or a Consitutional mandate are against hte spirit and letter of prescribed, enumerated powers. The Bill of Rights is designed to PREVENT this kind of massive centralization of power. The kind of power grab this bill represents is the antithesis of American Values, the US Constitution, and all things good and decent. The left likes to propogandize it by making it sound like charity. But large, centrally managed government programs are the opposite of charity. They are tyranny with a bad coat of shiny paint to distract the stupid and the ignorant.

And - as I've explained many times - I'm not a Republican. I'm a fiscally conservative, socially liberal, Constitutional Constructionist. I'm no slave to party politics - unlike others I could name.

And I'd love it if Franken would pull out the ENTIRE bill being discussed and make it public for everyone to read. The issue here being that Ried & the Democrats are deliberately HIDING huge portions of this bill from the public, and even from the Republicans in the Senate. THune couldn't possibly have read the 'whole bill' because the Democrats have been stonewalling it and hiding it - only dribbling out snippets they want. "Choosing your facts" again, eh? Franken, heal thyself.

>> ^RevDiscNation:
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I whole-heartedly support any argument or initiative that buries this stinkburger forever by whatever means possible. The bill is not about providing health care. It is a top-down, government run wealth redistribution scheme. Boo - hiss.
Amen to that. I can't stand the thought of my doctor becoming a government employee, and yet the libs are trying to ram this bill down our throats.
I want my tax money going to useful things, like the military, NOT to lying liberals who want someone choosing what proceedures my insurance will cover.


This is so moronic I can't tell if it's sarcasm or not.

Please advise.

The good news is that this bill will not pass despite all the socialist lies and deception.

The better news is that this "administration" will not be a repeat offender.

WP, we all know who the professional poster are. Maybe someday they'll get a real job and MoveOn.

And people wonder why America's so fucked up.

>> ^RevDiscNation:
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I want my tax money going to useful things, like the military...

Ok, what part of this is unconstitutional again? I suppose medicare falls into the same category?


On a different note, we should probably disband the military... too much centralized power. I don't remember voting for socialized national defense. Such things are better left to the free market. Think of how much we could lower taxes if we didn't have such an expensive government-run program running up our deficits. ;-)

Screen Shot or it didn't happen.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
Both of them have a point. Thune is right. The TAXES on the health care bill being discussed in the Senate do kick in almost immediately - and there are many of ascpects of the plan that do NOT kick in for years (very curiously, not until right after the elections... Hmmmm...). So if voters think they are going to get 'free' or 'public' insurance any time soon then they are very much mistaken and that needs to be brought up. Franken has a point because some benefits do start up soon, and to talk like nothing happens for 4 years except the taxes is not accurate either. From my perspective, they're both doing the exact same thing by - ahem - choosing thier own facts. I give Franken no points here. He's got no moral high ground, and worse he is a far greater rhetorical hypocrite.
56% of the public doesn't want this crappy bill. The bill is against the spirit and letter of the prescribed powers of government. There are far better and cheaper solutions that are entirely private in nature. This bill deserves to die a flaming death for many substantive reasons. I whole-heartedly support any argument or initiative that buries this stinkburger forever by whatever means possible. The bill is not about providing health care. It is a top-down, government run wealth redistribution scheme. Boo - hiss.

^ I wonder how many in that 56% oppose the bill because there is no public option/single-payer system, or because they think the death panels are coming for grandma.

>> ^Psychologic:
Ok, what part of this is unconstitutional again? I suppose medicare falls into the same category?
On a different note, we should probably disband the military... too much centralized power. I don't remember voting for socialized national defense. Such things are better left to the free market. Think of how much we could lower taxes if we didn't have such an expensive government-run program running up our deficits. ;-)


Actually, the constitution says "To Provide for the Common Defense". Which realistcally would allow for a military to protect the US borders, but not necessarily one to go romping around the planet and settling everywhere. Let our "allies" defend their own asses. Perhaps they'll learn that inspirational thought "Can't we all just get along?".

No matter how crappy of a day I have I can always bring a smile to my face by reminding myself that Al Franken got elected to the Senate.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
Quit your conspiracy theory ramblings. This was Rasumussen.

These days, that's just about the same thing.

Note that the poll also showed that the people they polled are grossly misinformed about the nature of the bill:

If the health care reform plan passes, will the quality of health care get better, worse, or stay about the same?

21% Better
54% Worse
18% About the same
7% Not sure

If the health care reform plan passes, will the cost of health care go up, go down, or stay about the same?

57% Up
17% Down
20% Stay the same
5% Not sure

I'd need to see the crosstabs to see whether this is a case of a bad partisan mix, or just the result of idiots like yourself spouting off lies and getting people to believe them. Either way I'm not particularly surprised that a sample of people who believe it will increase costs and worsen the quality of care are opposed to it.

If that's an accurate measure of where the public is (which I doubt), it won't stay that way if the reality winds up beating people's expectations as far as quality and cost containment.

I guess in some sense you guys are just helping set Democrats up for a rousing success by lowering expectations. You're not really making any headway against the bill passing.

Oh, and Rotty, if you're going to repeatedly toss out this canard about "professional posters", at least have the balls to name names. If there's someone cutting paychecks for talking politics on Videosift, I want in on it.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
the Democrats are deliberately HIDING huge portions of this bill from the public, and even from the Republicans in the Senate. THune couldn't possibly have read the 'whole bill' because the Democrats have been stonewalling it and hiding it - only dribbling out snippets they want. "Choosing your facts" again, eh? Franken, heal thyself.


???

The entire bill is available online: http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Al Franken auto-upvote.

>> ^Rotty:
>> ^Psychologic:
Ok, what part of this is unconstitutional again? I suppose medicare falls into the same category?
On a different note, we should probably disband the military... too much centralized power. I don't remember voting for socialized national defense. Such things are better left to the free market. Think of how much we could lower taxes if we didn't have such an expensive government-run program running up our deficits. ;-)

Actually, the constitution says "To Provide for the Common Defense". Which realistcally would allow for a military to protect the US borders, but not necessarily one to go romping around the planet and settling everywhere. Let our "allies" defend their own asses. Perhaps they'll learn that inspirational thought "Can't we all just get along?".


Would you place the same emphasis on "to Promote the General Welfare". Somehow I don't think so.

The private sector has failed at creating a national health care system in 233 years. How much longer should we wait?>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
There are far better and cheaper solutions that are entirely private in nature.

>> ^RevDiscNation:
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I whole-heartedly support any argument or initiative that buries this stinkburger forever by whatever means possible. The bill is not about providing health care. It is a top-down, government run wealth redistribution scheme. Boo - hiss.
Amen to that. I can't stand the thought of my doctor becoming a government employee, and yet the libs are trying to ram this bill down our throats. I want my tax money going to useful things, like the military, NOT to lying liberals who want someone choosing what proceedures my insurance will cover.


So for-profit corporations choosing what procedures your insurance will cover is the bee's knees? And by your reasoning, your doctor is an insurance company employee, not employed by the hospital/clinic he/she practices at? I wish people like you would do some research, conduct some independent critical thinking, and also give two shits about your fellow man...not just which ones to bomb next.

>> ^RevDiscNation:
Amen to that. I can't stand the thought of my doctor becoming a government employee, and yet the libs are trying to ram this bill down our throats. I want my tax money going to useful things, like the military, NOT to lying liberals who want someone choosing what proceedures my insurance will cover.

I'm working very hard at not being as crude as I would like here. I think I'll limit it to two points about this statement.

First, unless you're incredibly stupid, lying, or delusional, you -have- to realize that someone already -is- choosing what procedures your insurance will cover. That someone is working for your insurance company, and they're basing that decision on what makes the most money for them, not what's best for you.

Second, I think the fact that you consider the military to be a "useful thing" compared to health care reinforces the importance of the first part of my first point. Are you stupid, lying, or just delusional? Which is it?