*doublepromote
*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by pumkinandstorm.

Double-Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Monday, October 21st, 2013 2:31pm PDT - doublepromote requested by pumkinandstorm.

Great video.

Not sure I agree about a return to the gold standard and their consumption based tax system, but it was definitely worth a watch.

Also, they spoke a lot about classical economists and even mentioned FDR, but not a mention of Keynes, or about how the most successful states (in terms of equality and citizen happiness) follow a more socialist stance

After more than a little fear mongering and misinformation at the start, this gets rather interesting and informative. Title is a little ridiculous but what ever.

All information (filtered and processed through one's perceptive apparatus) is either true, false, or meaningless. Handy phraseology say for instance like, "fear mongering" works to solidify rather than "liquefy" brain tissue and serves further to entrench models, modes, ideals, etc. which are largely programmed constructs designed to control and inhibit evolution of independent thought and personal and collective spirituality.

We should all be "fearful" of such satanic, Babylonian horseshit the world system hands us. The current world systems are toxic and may inevitably destroy all species.

The precipice of a new "dark" age (best and worst of times) seems where the world teeters, peeps......best to pack a fucking toothbrush.

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Monday, October 21st, 2013 2:31pm PDT - promote requested by lurgee.

My legitimacy-test for any video of this type is to look at it from the 'other sides' perspective. If it's possible from another viewpoint to see this as propaganda, then it fails at what it (purportedly) sets out to achieve.

Ultimately this is one more video, in a long line of videos, that I would otherwise wholeheartedly agree with, but by them not citing nearly any of their sources for information (6 stages of empirical collapse?), having some information factually and historically wrong (stating typical lifetime of empire equal to about 250 years, and constant comparison to Roman empires collapse while Roman Empire lasted 500 years in the shortest example, and almost 2000 years in the longest), and generally using the same tactics of manipulation for communicating with the audience that the "negative" media uses (dramatic music, dramatic directing, footage, colors and stark, "this is how things are" narrative) makes this easy for me to dismiss.

... And a second thought:
If I were running a government that was at a teetering point of controlling its citizens while simultaneously getting away with murder, I would probably fund a video like this myself.

Ultimately it placates the opposition while not actually educating anyone, least of all those who are supportive of existing power.

@artician
im gonna have to disagree with you.

the comparisons this film makes with rome are a tool to illuminate the structure of empire itself.
at romes true beginning to romes ultimate fading were longer than 250 years.
you are correct.
you are also correct of the existence of a 2000 year long empire.
which of course was the egyptian empire.

what you DID not post was that the waning years of the rome empire was concentrated in constantinople and was called the byzantine empire.you further weaken your argument by not pointing out that the egyptian empire was not one long single stretch of domination but rather a series of rises and falls of that empire.

now,by your own argument you have failed your own propaganda test.

this film makes an argument.
you can agree/disagree with its conclusions.
but to dismantle the delivery of that argument based on circular logic drowns out the argument itself.

this is a criticism of our current system.
a valid criticism in my opinion and i didnt find it delving into boogah boogah land.
it was rational,reasonable and possibly a bit too heavy on the power point presentation.

but considering i had read most of the books by the authors being interviewed (the "sources" you claim were lacking),i found it a fantastic movie for people who may not be aware of whats going on.

not everybody has the time or patience to consume information the way you or i do.
and i rather liked how this film lays out our current situation.

i guess you didnt.
fair enough.

@enoch I didn't mention the Egyptian empire, for exactly the reason you mention. I was referring to the specific difference between the Western Roman empire (~30-ish something BC - 470-something AD), and the Eastern Roman empire (roughly 2000 years in length).

Past experience has lead me to expect less dickish replies from you. Considering that you and I most probably share the same ideals especially.

Regardless, you can't claim your film doesn't practice fear-mongering when it begins with several minutes of that kind of footage, with that kind of music. This is the same kind of production Fox news would create, it just happens to be from the angle that we agree with. As enlightened, open-minded individuals, we can do better than this. And we have to if we want to change anything.

I'm packing a towel and waiting for a mobile device outside of the network planned for bypass.

"Ultimately it placates the opposition while not actually educating anyone, least of all those who are supportive of existing power."-Sounds like you're describing any and all alleged news organizations whose name(s) are ubiquitous with "news!"

and another, " As enlightened, open-minded individuals, we can do better than this."

Are you speaking for the giants of ineffectual mumblings like saaaay, Hitchens or Chomsky, or the internet-educated self-aware, the indentured meatsacks who if they had a plan, would toke a doobie and finish one more quest or porn clip before taking action?

@artician

Even if the models for the decline of empires are inexact, poorly sourced or even exaggerated, they are doing so to combat the overwhelming force of the status quo that feeds us a constant stream of comforting, mind-numbing bliss through mass media, mostly delivered though TV news, advertising and cleverly veiled in the actual entertainment that the audience enjoys.

It's hard to mount a comeback against a presupposed cultural truth supported by any form of economic interest. The tobacco industry, for example, mounted powerful misinformation and doubt as scientific evidence slowly leaked out that smoking was harmful. People just don't want to hear that the way they live and what they "know" to be true is going to change and that personal choice is going to have to be limited to some extent.

The same is true for global warming, deforestation, species extinction, pollution, etc., etc. You can resist the "ineffectual mumblings" of Hitchens, Chomsky and the like, but you do so to at your own peril. People like you are the do-do bird in this scenario. People like you are the 2 pack-a-day smoker who thinks they've been smoking for 20 years and feeling fine so why quit now. "Screw the scientists, they're all out to make themselves rich so they concoct these cackamamy experiments to 'prove' they need more research funding." Okay, it's your right to dismiss the advice of people smarter than you.

This video follows the same vein as Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist series (which I suggest you watch or rewatch for shits and giggles.) The idea of consumption tax seems a lot easier for our system to adopt than Joseph's idea of a "Resource-Based Economy." It just sounds more fair that those consuming resources pay back into the system and less airy-fairy than some socialist "to-each as to his need" idea. And let's face it, it's right on a social level. It's just too hard to get there based on our current economic and political structure.

Our wasteful way of life is just unsustainable. I don't think anyone can deny that the ponzi scheme of FIAT money is eventually going to collapse because the balance of wealth is way out of whack AND ONLY GETTING WORSE. And the USA is at the top, and yet owes trillions in funny money that they can only pay back if they stop building missiles and tanks. But I think we all know that when the shit hits the fan, we're going to want to get behind those tanks to ride out the storm of resistance from the 99%. Not the privileged 99% in the west, the 99% of destitute, impoverished poor that build the toys, sew and clothes, glue the plastic Walmart crap, and GROW THE FOOD that we want.to have cheap. We're doing this all on the backs of the "free slaves" in undeveloped countries: Columbia, Bangladesh and on and on.

Search your feelings, Luke. You know it to be true.

@alcom You lost me at "People like you..."

Let me state this clearly: You're attacking me on the front that I don't agree with what the video says. I agree with everything the video says. I do not agree with how it's presented because it's done so in the same manner that those who impart ignorance on our society.

This is exactly why I made my post. Every time I try to express the idea that we can do better, the people who hold the exact same ideals as I do reply in defense of the material as though I disagree with its message.

If you have to punctuate your thoughts with Star Wars quotes then I return to you: Stay On Target.

I am not your enemy.

I admit that my wording made my point more of a personal attack and not what I had originally intended. I disagree that the level of hyperbole of the presenters in this piece robs the entire thing of its relevance or truth.

When you discount their points of view as mere mumblings, you yourself sound like the ignorant party. My impulse to perceived ignorance is to attack...from the safety and anonymity of my desk

@alcom No hard feelings. I'm starting to get used to this. Please let me try to explain one more time, because I feel like I have an important point:

Videos like this are great for the people who are already in agreement, but it's my belief that they're intended to educate and bring positive change.
My belief is that we need to get people who disagree entirely with the subject and message to absorb the information if we actually want to make that change.
We're communicating with people who, for all intents and purposes from our point of view, are completely irrational. 'They' believe the same about people with our perspective. If you're going to approach them for a dialogue, it only takes ONE mistake, misquote, or sense of being manipulated to lose them, and then you're back to square one.

So the reason I criticize this video is because I could see someone who was ignorant of this information easily turning it off as soon as it got to the dramatic music and the matter-of-fact narrative presentation, or the misalignment with their Empirical analogies.
I'm sure you've seen enough mainstream media today to know that as soon as something smells fishy to one party or another, they hang onto that, no matter how trivial whatever that thing is, and it's the only excuse they need to stick fingers in ears and "La la la I can't hear you! You're wrong!"

I feel like I'm turning into exactly that kind of manipulative, psychoanalyzing communicator, which makes me sick. But my whole motivation is to clear the bullshit away, that's all. Thanks for your reply.

I see your point about the delivery of these lefty messages. Almost without fail, they pull at the heartstrings with moody scores and images of the helplessness of the poor, the beauty of pristine nature and the ugly rot that underlies our way of life. I certainly don't have the ability to produce anything approaching the quality of this video, flawed as it is as a tool to convert non-believers.

I see this as the real challenge moving forward: the creation of a universal message that speaks to people who are unaware or in denial about our impending collapse. Somehow, one of us with the charisma of a Lincoln or a Mandella, has to present that universal message. Present it, and for God's sake find a way to not make it sound like the whining of a "bleeding-heart liberal."

Well, you're attacking the wrong person for a start. It was @chingalera that called it mere mumblings.

*quality

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