As dag has so eloquently stated in another post "This is why we fight".

"...go to the back...half men half women...what's the problem?"

Man. Where to begin?

As long as she does as he tells her to do, there is no problem. And he honest-to-god believes that.

I wish that by now we could have figured out the mindset of people like that: the dogmatic, fundamental "exactists" who will not live and let live.

There has to be a psychological profile explaining their motivation, and as such there has to be a strategy for making them simmer down and shut up long enough for the rest of us to enjoy our lives.

That type of person exists in almost every culture in the world. It's easy to see their counterparts in other religions such as Christianity and Islam.

For some reason they are absolutely convinced that their way is the one and only way, period.

What kind of argument could we have to stop them dead in their tracks?

I see nothing but group think, and false inspiration provided by a uniform.

The video gets a lot of things wrong, but is essentially accurate.

Israel is a religious nation. A huge portion of our government is made up of religious parties and their power grows with each generation of 8-10 child families. One of the key topics whenever a government is formed is the "child allowances", which is basically the government giving money to the family for each child it has. The religious parties know their demographic has more children per family, so they get that to support them. I end up paying.

These guys use the country and oppose it at the same time. At some point there will be way too many of them to sustain because their numbers increase way more than the tax-paying public does, but at the same time their political power will go up by the same rate, for the same reason.

Sucks, to have that little hope for the future, huh?

I can't imagine how offensive the "get to the back of the bus" thing must be to Americans.

Here's a playlist you can embed, by the way: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8AE7D360DADD3303

^thanks

*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by eric3579.

It seems like any peace achieved in Israel & Palestine will only be temporary. On both sides, the demographic future belongs to the war-mongering, baby-factory religious fundamentalists.

Education has inversely correlated with reproduction for a long time everywhere - among conservatives, among liberals - but in Israel & Palestine it seems particularly easy to see.

Sadly, and with great reluctance, i am reaching a point where i just want to stop the world and get off. As a previous commnter said; "where do you begin"? One cannot rationalise with such mind sets, so irrational and unmentionable solutions float to the surface. Ok,- trying to remain rational- they do not recognise their own government as it is man made and not made by god. So be it. Deprive them of the states help in ALL things. If they want to "study" there religion 24/7 and contribute nothing to the society in which the live, then let their god provide for them. No more benefits,public services or access to public buildings. The most important and fundamental way in curbing this devisive creed is to deny them the right to brainwash their children. Ofcourse this would never happen because it strikes at the core of ALL faiths ie, their children cannot be allowed to question, they cannot be allowed to use their own thought process, and would never be allowed to leave the faith of their father without dire consequences. As an aside, it is Interesting how the israeli government "use" the Ultra-Orthodox to further their own ends in Palestine. It is ALL so depressing.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Fascinating stuff.

^ If you think that's fascinating, check out our Justice Minister: http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1133596.html

>> ^demon_ix:
Israel is a religious nation. A huge portion of our government is made up of religious parties and their power grows with each generation of 8-10 child families.


Which Israel is this exactly? It must be a different Israel from the one where the "ultra-orthodox" parties have only 16 out of 120 seats in the parliament.

>> ^shimfish:
Which Israel is this exactly? It must be a different Israel from the one where the "ultra-orthodox" parties have only 16 out of 120 seats in the parliament.

Oh, the Ultra-Orthodox parties (Shas and Yahadut Ha'tora) "only" have 16 seats, but they're still the fifth and sixth largest parties. Add Mafdal (Habayit Hayehudi they're called now) and parties that define themselves by their religion first and their political agenda second have 19 seats, which make up %16 of the Knesset.

Other interesting stats: Of the last 10 governments (as listed in the official Knesset website), Shas has been a member of 8, Mafdal (National Religious Party) has been a member of 6, and the only government that had no religious parties at all was the 26th, which was only that way because Shas left. It lasted for 8 long months.

This is the Israel I'm talking about.

Siftbot Sucks.

Delete these two comments please. Triple-post. Newb mistake.

>> ^demon_ix:
>> ^shimfish:
Which Israel is this exactly? It must be a different Israel from the one where the "ultra-orthodox" parties have only 16 out of 120 seats in the parliament.

Oh, the Ultra-Orthodox parties (Shas and Yahadut Ha'tora) "only" have 16 seats, but they're still the fifth and sixth largest parties. Add Mafdal (Habayit Hayehudi they're called now) and parties that define themselves by their religion first and their political agenda second have 19 seats, which make up %16 of the Knesset.
Other interesting stats: Of the last 10 governments (as listed in the official Knesset website), Shas has been a member of 8, Mafdal (National Religious Party) has been a member of 6, and the only government that had no religious parties at all was the 26th, which was only that way because Shas left. It lasted for 8 long months.
This is the Israel I'm talking about.


So "huge portion" == 16% and the *fifth* largest party. And that includes a non-chareidi party.

And a country that, at least according to this massively accurate documentary, has 56% "religious" (which to clarify, means everyone who isn't a die-hard athiest) population almost always has a religious party making up its proportional representation government?

Where's this cool, calculated, secular level-headedness that I've heard so much about?

I guess there's only one way to fight fear and hatred. And that's with fear and hatred.

My cool level-headedness goes away when the other guy tells me that my driving a car on my street on a saturday offends him, and I should stop.

My cool level-headedness goes away when the other guy tells me I can't buy bread in April because Jews leaving Egypt couldn't make bread millenia ago, so now I can't.

My cool level-headedness goes away when the other guy tells me I have to work hard and pay taxes so that he can live with his wife and 9 children and study Torah all day long.

My cool level-headedness goes away when the other guy tells me that my taxes have to be spent on the military because God said this land is ours and no one else's.

My cool level-headedness goes away when my life is affected on every turn by the other guy's faith, and I've grown so accustomed to it that I don't find it odd anymore.

Let them earn their own money - remove all subsidizing of it and it will die like a limb with no blood.

You say that like you think my government works for me.

I can see how not being able to buy bread for 7 days a year would drive a man over the edge into irrational hatred.

And the tax thing is just standard anti-whoever propaganda. "The other lazy people are taking all our hard-earned tax." Always works a treat for whipping up the mobs. It's doing wonders in America right now.

I haven't managed to watch the whole of this video yet due to slow internets but it seems a class slice of edutainment. There's nothing like getting to understand a culture by interviewing those who are idealistically opposed to it.

I have no problem with my taxes going to unemployment. I have no problem with my taxes going to homeless, disabled, elderly and other groups who are unable to work for a living.

I do have a problem with the state subsidizing students of religion while med students, engineering students and teachers have to struggle to make ends meet.

I never said they were lazy. They spend their lives studying what they choose to study and practice their faith. It's great. But why am I paying their tuition, rent and food expenses? Also, why can't I spend my days in a university doing the same? I promise only to do it for 4 years, not an entire lifetime.

Yeah, I mind not being able to buy bread for 7 days every year, and you thinking I shouldn't because you believe in it, is my entire point. I don't see any irrational hatred flowing from my direction, however.

I'm afraid I don't have the figures. Maybe you could help me. I'm sure you must have researched it as you are so passionate about the subject.

What is the subsidy per university student (obviously taking into account subsidies for the university) and the subsidy per Torah student?

A significant chunk of these places are funded via private donations. Yes, I pay my taxes. And I pay another 10% of my income giving money to just such institutions.

Regarding the whole bread thang, http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/973054.html is quite interesting. Basically, you can buy bread. Just don't be a jerk and wave it around everywhere.

No, I'm afraid I don't have precise figures for you. There are other issues to consider as well, such as how much it costs for students not studying in a government-supported institution (Michlalot), there's the whole issue of the three years of military service the Haredi are exempt from and it really isn't as simple as "they get X, we get Y".

And regarding the "bread thing", it's not illegal to buy it, but it's illegal to sell it, and stores selling bread during Pessah get fined regularly.

Saying it's not a religious law is laughable, almost like saying the Swiss minaret ban is an architectural dispute.

>> ^shimfish: So "huge portion" == 16% and the fifth largest party.

16% is way more than enough to swing a parliamentary government. You can rest assured that they will get what they want, as long as they form a coalition government with whichever party is willing to hand them the best booty.

I find myself experiencing a high frequency of face-palming in reaction to most videos on Israel.

Human behavior at it's finest. I'd rather hang around with a bunch of chimps.

There's something seriously wrong with that part of the planet. Has anyone ever tested the sand there?

no matter how you slice it, spending **too much time** studying ancient texts and religions is really not conductive towards bettering our society as a whole and therefore isn't wise. religions are the #1 problem in this region. snap out of it people. study science if you want to change the world.

Jesus... "we are the REAL Jews."

>> ^hollywooddigital:
no matter how you slice it, spending too much time studying ancient texts and religions is really not conductive towards bettering our society as a whole and therefore isn't wise. religions are the #1 problem in this region. snap out of it people. study science if you want to change the world.


You got some quantitative data to back up any of these assertions, Mr Scientist?

You got some quantitative data to back up any of these assertions, Mr Scientist?

yes several real world examples .. electricity, air conditioning, computers, iphones, satellites, modern surgery .. all the things you probably take for granted i guess. Products of SCIENCE.

NOT RELIGION.

Religion never produced anything this cool. If it could Jesus would have been carrying around an iPhone GUARANTEED. Instead he allowed himself to get nailed to a cross yet he walked on water just to show off!! HAHA. that's a joke.

But that's not even my main point. The main point is that NOBODY KNOWS what is going to happen when we die. That is the absolute 100% truth! The main reason we have religions is so we can look forward to something in the 'Afterlife' Right? Hypothetically, if we were all immortal and never died, do you think religion would even be an issue for us? I don't. Faith is ok, it can be a beautiful thing. But take religion with a grain of salt so to speak becuse NOBODY REALLY KNOWS and the moment you act like you do and someone else's beliefs are WRONG.. then you are delusional! Craziness occurs when people are delusional..

So with that logic, I say believe what you believe but don't criticize or harm someone else for believing something different.

Do you agree?

Shimfish,what data do you require? Do you need figures to show how studying religion 24/7 has advanced the fields of Cosmology,Physics,Biology,Genetics,medicine,chemistry or any other science? Well, you will find it hard to find, as their time is taken up with prayer and procreation. Ofcourse there are religious people who are scientists, but Hollyeooddigitals comments refer to the Haredi in the video, and they are valid.My only addition would be that it is not only the number 1 problem in the region, religious bigotry and dogma is the number 1 problem globally. Education is the answer, not bronze age mythology.

'Education is the answer'

Amen to that brother.

ZIONISM = RACISM

Tags for this video have been changed from 'israeli, bbc, fundamentalist' to 'israeli, bbc, fundamentalist, Haredi' - edited by schmawy