This is the documentary on Waco he mentions. Already sifted.

I hope those assholes who difiantly defend Obammy watch this and see he is just the next step in "enslaving" America.

So... is he saying police shouldn't keep up with modern technology? I for one am glad that police are equipped with body armor - that way if a criminal shoots at them there is less chance of the police officer dying and a greater chance of the officer stopping the criminal from killing other people.

The same goes for better equipment to use against criminals. For one thing, most of the items he is showing are being used for SWAT or other counter-terrorism/hostage rescue teams. You don't see any officers dressed like that walking the streets as a beat cop. Complete strawman.

Also, he criticizes police forces for getting things like LRAD and Active Denial Systems. Considering these are "Less that Lethal" devices that are meant to be used instead of weapons that kill people I'm very glad police forces are investing in these. I'm not quite sure if this guy just didn't do his research or if he is just trying to scare people. His use of WACO makes me think the latter.

Then he asks, while showing a 'random checkpoint' and 'national I.D. cards' if "this is the type of country you want your kids to grow up in?" Well, I don't know about the US, but up here in Canada we already have "random checkpoints" pretty much every weekend to make sure people aren't driving drunk. We also have checkpoints at borders and sometimes if there is an Amber Alert, or for myriad other reasons. These seem perfectly reasonable. We also have drivers licences, passports and other government ID cards. OH NOES POLICE STATE!!1

Police need to adapt to deal with ever adapting criminals. Barney Fife would die in a gutter while a well-equipped, properly trained officer gets the job done.

Welcome to the post 9/11 world of large money being made in the defense industry.

Capitalism. Love it or leave it.

*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by Hex.

When there are laws that require you to identify yourself then that is not freedom.

We trade privacy for the ability to drive, however I wasn't given a choice when it came to the SS card.

Freedom? Is the illusion of choice, at least give me that.

For the 2-4th posters... you don't seem to get it. This has been happening way before Obama and way before 9/11.

I am all for the police employing protection so when confronting a hostile perp. they themselves don't get hurt. However, the police are actively inflating people's anger. Besides what was presented in the video, consider:
- increased use of tasers on people that don't pose a threat. Some even results in death.
- free speech zones
- What just happened in Pittsburgh
- The DHS insistence that they can search anyone without a warrant within 100 miles of any border (check out their website for more info). This would make over half of all Americans not subject to constitutional protection
- Constant police intimidation for simply try to exercise one's first amendment right.
- Police involvement in protect events in LA and Seattle in recent years. There is a trend to use the police force is often used to oppress opposing political views.
- TSA's police state in airports.
- and the list goes on..

Basically, this is about control and subjugation of the American people by the American government. It's the governments wet dream. And, unless we stand up it's only going to get worse.

This government needs to undertsand that this is not welcome, and it's un-American. Crap, we just lost the 2016 Olympic bid for Chicago because of concerns of abusive airport security for foreigners. Way to go DHS!

If these high tech stuff are needed, then just call in the military!

>> ^Skeeve: Considering these are "Less that Lethal" devices that are meant to be used instead of weapons that kill people I'm very glad police forces are investing in these.

I call bullshit.

Please cite one example of police use of "less lethal" devices in which the rules of engagement call for lethal force.

>> ^ant:
If these high tech stuff are needed, then just call in the military!

The military doesn't work well with people, even in Canada if you transfer from the MP's(Military Police) to RCMP you still have to go back to the RCMP college for 3mo to make sure you don't crack people in the head, and criminals have a tendency of using the same hollowpoint, or better yet AP rounds which seems to be their new favorite. The problem is, the average citizen has problems with APC's rolling down the street to deal with the average 'crime problem'. Let me explain a bit more. The military is slow to respond to 'criminal' activity, it's not their area of expertise. But on average up here, only about 1:10 calls for service are actually criminal related.

In Canada land, specifically out in BC, the cops aren't out like that unless oh they need to be. However, they do seem to be having problems with the gangs and other lowlifes, well...AP rounds? Check, armor plated cars? Check. Oh did I mention that it's not the police using them but the criminals? It'll be a bit before we see our own high profile shootout like you did down in the US but it'll happen.

It's not the police that get pressed into using higher firepower, it's a response to criminal action. And with that it becomes an ongoing escalation. But you can't kick it down without people helping you either, too bad most people would rather turn a blind eye to everything these days. And I can give so many examples of that, it's not even funny.

>> ^maximillian:
For the 2-4th posters... you don't seem to get it. This has been happening way before Obama and way before 9/11.
I am all for the police employing protection so when confronting a hostile perp. they themselves don't get hurt. However, the police are actively inflating people's anger. Besides what was presented in the video, consider:
- increased use of tasers on people that don't pose a threat. Some even results in death.
- free speech zones
- What just happened in Pittsburgh
- The DHS insistence that they can search anyone without a warrant within 100 miles of any border (check out their website for more info). This would make over half of all Americans not subject to constitutional protection
- Constant police intimidation for simply try to exercise one's first amendment right.
- Police involvement in protect events in LA and Seattle in recent years. There is a trend to use the police force is often used to oppress opposing political views.
- TSA's police state in airports.
- and the list goes on..
Basically, this is about control and subjugation of the American people by the American government. It's the governments wet dream. And, unless we stand up it's only going to get worse.
This government needs to undertsand that this is not welcome, and it's un-American. Crap, we just lost the 2016 Olympic bid for Chicago because of concerns of abusive airport security for foreigners. Way to go DHS!


Don't forget the DHS's own report on domestic terrorism - which singles out "right wing extremists" and "right wing terrorists" as the biggest threat to national security today. If you have a Ron Paul bumper sticker, watch out:

"The report warned law enforcement agencies to watch for suspicious individuals who may have bumper stickers for third-party political candidates such as Ron Paul, Bob Barr and Chuck Baldwin."

Or if you're a returning vet - it's likely you'll end up becoming a domestic terrorist, too!

"Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right-wing extremists," it says. "DHS/I&A is concerned that right-wing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize veterans in order to boost their violent capacities."

The myth of violent, war-crazed veterans coming home and wanting to keep killing is exactly that, a myth.

I ain't listen' to no website based in gatdang Montenegro! Damn foreign influence, trying to weaken our state from within.

The same thing happened in response to the increasing power of Chicago's bootlegging mob. And, since when is a SWAT officer the same as a beat officer? Of course there will always be abuses, but it takes a lot of mischaracterization to depict that as the norm.

>> ^dgandhi:
>> ^Skeeve: Considering these are "Less that Lethal" devices that are meant to be used instead of weapons that kill people I'm very glad police forces are investing in these.
I call bullshit.
Please cite one example of police use of "less lethal" devices in which the rules of engagement call for lethal force.


Remember Kent State? While the "rules of engagement" may not have called for lethal force, it seems rather obvious that the lack of anything between billy clubs and guns directly contributed to the student deaths.

United Police States of America.

>> ^Skeeve:
So...

Did I just hear the police raided a school for a training exercise without warning?

I *know* this will be long. But understanding things should never be allowed to be reduced to sound bites and short sentences.

Police raided a school as an exercise? Not even some warrents? Sounds like some individuals whom need to be held accountible for their jobs. Which could be fines, jail time, lose of job, and so on. People make mistakes, and do dumb things. Can you honestly say you haven't done dumb things in your life so far?

The narrator is trying to use fear, to get the proper response out of you, the audience. To some degree, as with posters above, he succeeds at the task. He uses a collection of words and phrases, and links them to imagery, sounds, and even old pictures. In ways, this concept is known as NLP, or, Neuro-logical programming (look it up in wikipedia, its both fascinating and scary stuff).

Police have to keep up with technology and tactics, as their duty in our country, is to up hold the law. The legistators create laws, the executive signs such law in to effect. Its the law enforcement (i.e. the police, FBI, and other local/state/federal agencies) whom maintain the law. The justices decide on whether the laws are within Consitituional limits, or if they breach them. All these sets of checks & balances do not work, if the citizens of the country let in to the fear this narrator wants you to feel. I know the police in my town. Friendly bunch whom work very hard to keep things normal and safe. They are very much studied and watched. We pay them very well, and make sure they have the proper tools to do their job correctly, honestly, lawfully, and to be responsible.

The 'police state' effect, that the narrator talks about, did come in to effect during the Bush Administration. The US Patriot Act was passed in to law very quickly, shortly after Sept. 11, 2001. One of its passages allowed the goverment to circumvent the 4th Amendment, allowing the White House to 'spy' on over 300 million Americans. This was conducted in an effort to catch and eliminate "...those whom are a threat to our country." This narrator does not hold Mr. Bush, nor the White House accountible to each and every time, this action took place.

If I recall the issue of military 'APC's for Waco, Tx correctly. The Branch Davidians were holed up in a central structure compound with numberous fire arms. Now, this by itself was not illegal. The agents conducting the warrents and arrests initally were met with the civilian sold version of the Barrett M82A1 'light fifty' rifle. This weapon, to my knowledge, is a single shot weapon (the military version can fire rounds from a magizine....I think?). I'm sure the gun nuts on here could inform us, of the gun's name. Anyways, this weapon, like its military cousin, could blow holes through armored police cars. The APCs were used to conduct operations and hopefully bring the matter to a non-violent conclusion. As the history books show, this did not happen. But the police, and FBI, did not racket up their skills and tools in a vacuum. After the event was over, there were a number of studies on the issue, and people held properly (depending on one's viewpoint I guess) of their actions and inactions that led to the events.

If you, the citizen really are consern about the nature of the police or law enforcement, then why not go visit the police. Talk to them, become active in your community and seriously look at how a police state could be formed, and take proper, legal, honest action to oppose it. Believe it or not, the police I know, are AGAINST a police state. And they are in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (since, some of you conversatives think us Mass residents are all commie, liberal, socialistic, islamic happy, tree hugging, yuppy, homosexual liking, religios hating, psych-paths....did I leave anything out?). In fact, thsoe whom are liberal REALLY are against the police state. We voted to remove Republicans at the federal level, out of office (since the Bush admin *IS* Republican).


Finally, recall its Thomas Jefferson that said, (paraphrasingly) that if we are afraid to speak our minds in pursuit of our nations freedoms and equalities, then we allow tyranny to win.

I can never get past the constant cycle where our culture hungers for media that constantly encourages a world where there is more violence, crime, sex, promiscuity around us.

We used to have a community and neighbors, now we don't walk at night because we don't know who's a criminal. Is it really like that? or do we just believe that because of what we see on Cops, America's Most Wanted, CSI, NCIS, etc etc etc.

Then the police use that portrait of a dangerous and violent world as a reason to get bigger weapons and armor. They are now starting to use drones to watch us 24/7 - to keep us safer.

But that only makes sense if everyone around is us a criminal and dangerous. Otherwise we're allowing ourselves to be guarded against a fantasy.

Raverman, that's garbage and that's a good part of why they've gotten away with the level of militarization and control that they have.

More promiscuous? Ever heard of the 60s? Hell, penny arcades showed porn almost as soon as film was developed, turn of last century or so, search vintage porn and you might find more than you expect. Great Grandpa probably liked his porn too.

More violent? Bullshit. Crime rates have fallen and fallen again since the 60s and 70s and the biggest part of why they were as high as they were then is simple demographics. Young people are more likely to test the limits than older ones and the baby boom generation was just hitting their prime. Combine the age with the boldness large numbers of them would offer and you've got yourself some statistics. And statistics that fell on their own as those youth grew up and invested in the system rather than in rebellion. Crime rates in most areas that matter are just a fraction today of what they used to be, but the news coverage is better so we HEAR about more of it.

We don't have neighbors and community largely because of us. We don't give a damned anymore. We've become so used to having our thoughts and opinions spoon fed to us by the press or politicians that we've forgot how to read a paper or do research, come to a decision on our own.

There's a documentary here on the sift you might want to watch. It's called "The Century of the Self" and it examines how psychology first started to be used to manipulate people into buying products through advertising then when the politicians realized how useful it could be they started to use it as well. Over the last 100 years we've progressively been made more and more unthinking and dependent and we've got nobody to blame for it but ourselves, because we allowed it. It was just easier to let someone else do the thinking. If you want to know where we are today and why this is a decent start.

http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Century-of-the-Self-full-four-part-documentary

Are we really complaining that in this modern world, the police have been armed with sticks and shields for riot duty?

Does someone actually think that's... new?

>> ^blankfist:
United Police States of America.


Grew up in STASI controlled East Germany? How about the USSR? Still looking for that state wide controlled police force that rounds people up and takes them away forever. Oh wait you don't have them...