Here is the actual survey data she's looking at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-09-ARIS-faith-survey_N.htm

She actually misread the data. When she said she was looking at the "change in percentage of folks who claim to be christians". She was actually looking at the "change in the percentage of non-catholic christians".

So while you see Texas had the highest decrease in non-catholic christians, it also had the highest increase in catholics.

[edit]: You can find the real full report here: http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

Hallelujah!

Yeah it's not that more people are coming to their senses and realizing that religion is make-believe, most of the religions grew in numbers, but their per capita percentage decreased.

On the radio today they said that while the major religions were losing ground, the numbers of non-denominational Evangelical Christians were still rising.

Do people really CHOOSE what they believe?

For myself, I've never felt that I choose my beliefs so much as I discover them, that is, I find what makes the most sense to me as representing the 'real' world...

Even when it comes to taste, don't you sort of discover what you like rather than "deciding" what you're going to like?

I'm sure there's a gradation, with some things being more towards the "chosen" pole, but not not so much when it comes to metaphysical stuff...

>> ^HollywoodBob:
Yeah it's not that more people are coming to their senses and realizing that religion is make-believe, most of the religions grew in numbers, but their per capita percentage decreased.

You're right about that. If you look at the full report I posted earlier, it shows that by the number of people, each group grew by these percentages:

24% Catholic
10% Other Christian
50% Other Religions
138% Nones
193% DK/Refused
30% Total U.S.

But I'm not sure if you should draw the conclusion that people are not coming to their senses. It really just means that the population is growing faster than beliefs are changing, right?

>> ^ObsidianStorm:
Do people really CHOOSE what they believe?
For myself, I've never felt that I choose my beliefs so much as I discover them, that is, I find what makes the most sense to me as representing the 'real' world...
Even when it comes to taste, don't you sort of discover what you like rather than "deciding" what you're going to like?
I'm sure there's a gradation, with some things being more towards the "chosen" pole, but not not so much when it comes to metaphysical stuff...


People might not choose what they believe in the moment but they can choose to question beliefs that don't make sense and see their beliefs changed over the longer term. But it's a very arduous process and that's why most people stay in the religion they were taught as kids.

I used to work with runaway kids who were usually abused and I was often impressed with how they tended to have very personal well thought out individual sets of beliefs (often spiritual atheism). Ask your average adult to explain or defend their beliefs and they can't, ask one of these kids and they can. I attribute that to their being forced to look for their own answers since abusive parents obviously weren't reliable teachers.

I was just reading about that this morning.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/03/09/us.religion.less.christian/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

There's a down side to this though:

The survey also found that "born-again" or "evangelical" Christianity is on the rise, while the percentage who belong to "mainline" congregations such as the Episcopal or Lutheran churches has fallen.

One in three Americans consider themselves evangelical, and the number of people associated with mega-churches has skyrocketed from less than 200,000 in 1990 to more than 8 million in the latest survey.

It's not a decline of religion (as the title suggests), but rather the middle ground or in-between people. Roman Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity are both on the rise, as well as Atheism.

It means people are becoming more polarized.

I don't "choose non-belief". I'm genetically predisposed to not subscribe to nonsensical fairy tales.

Magic is REAL. Winged people live in the clouds.. horned cloven-hooved red dudes live below the ground.

Nuff said.

>> ^Morganth:
It's not a decline of religion (as the title suggests), but rather the middle ground or in-between people. Roman Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity are both on the rise, as well as Atheism.
It means people are becoming more polarized.



It's hard to tell, at least from what I've read from the actual survey. The last time they did this survey they didn't ask people some of the questions they asked in this one so it's difficult to tell how all of the numbers changed.

Does anyone know if the total percentage of people claiming to be religious relative to the total population went up or down? What I read seemed to indicate that it went down, even though certain denominations went up in certain places.

It's just saying that Mexican's are dragging their shitty dogma into my side of the country. If it wasn't for their great food and strong work ethic, I'd be angry.

and THAT, folks, is how you properly overgeneralize...

Save me CHEEZUS!

>> ^Morganth:
It means people are becoming more polarized.


And that is what is most worrisome for many people.

How long before the mild believers are out numbered by the radical ones? Before "Evangelical" Christianity becomes like fundamentalist Islam, power hungry and oppressive? Before the uneasy truce between believers and non-believers is shattered? Before the cold-war of science and rationalism vs. superstition and dogma turns violent? And more frightening is that, I honestly believe when it comes to it, the rational side will not be the one to strike first.

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