This type of thing - the forceful quieting of fully legal protest - seems to be becoming more and more common lately. What is happening to this country? Oh nevermind, now I remember.

It's chilling to think that although Tiananmen is perhaps the most famous, there's no reason the same couldn't happen here, especially the day when people decide to stand their ground in numbers against the police instead of backing down.

I like the lady at around 4:35 - "I got a right to be on the streets, fuck this running shit!"

Someone should probably *nsfw this... And not just for the nice lady at 4:35.

Gold Star invocations (nsfw) cannot be executed by Raveni because Raveni is not a Gold Star member - sorry.

look immigrants are fine and ducky...but illegals in my opinion have no rights given to them by the constitution because they are not members of this country. protest all ya wnat but it still doesnt make you like those that waited and were patient and immigrated to this country LEAGALLY

Oh and of course, race-baiting being one of the great little bags-o-tricks pull-outs, none of this will take place, and of course, encouraging illegals to protest en-masse, would never be something someone with a personal agenda would ever think of doing....Fuck Illegal Immigration, and don't piss a cop off at a rally that's a U.S. citizen, with yer stupid bullshit, or you may get, god forbid, abused, your HUMAN right violated, and some dickless wonder using your horrible plight, as a bleeding-heart masturbatory project for hims collich class.......

Agreed, Knighthawk. My parents are both immigrants, and they had to wait themselves. (My mom for 3 months, my dad for a couple years.) I also have 2 friends I know of who recently became citizens. One is from Hungary, and he waited almost 5 years to become a citizen. He could have married a current citizen and become one that way, but he didn't want a marriage of convenience, since he wasn't in love with her. Another friend is Mexican and it took him about 4 years to become a citizen. (In fact, he did so just last year.) Add on to that the fact that he's from a poor family too. If he could wait for his citizenship, then why should others be exempt?
Granted something needs to be done to make immigration a bit easier for people, but supporting illegal immigration is not the route to take.

The issue is the conduct of the police on the day in question. The people involved were lawfully involved in petitioning their government for a redress of grievances, and the police decided to shut them down in a particularly brutal manner. That is the issue, and the only issue.

Well, then on that subject, you can't just assume that the police were breaking it up because they're brutal thugs who are racist or disagree with the protest or some inflammatory reason like that. Most likely the protest was getting out of hand, or infringing on other people's rights, and that's generally when protesters are asked to disperse. Here the police gave fair warnings REPEATEDLY, asking for the protesters to disperse, and when this didn't occur, the police had to take a more aggressive stance. Sure the protesters left the park, but since they were still in their group, it wasn't complying with what they were asked to do.

Also, remember that this is taking place in LA, which is known for riots and violence. The police have to be prepared for any eventuality, and them taking the fall for popping some people with rubber bullets is a lot more acceptable than the protest getting out of hand and people getting seriously hurt or killed.

I didn't say that they were in the wrong... the Los Angeles Police Commissioner did.

L-A police Chief William Bratton says he wants to know why hundreds of rubber bullets were fired at protesters during Tuesday's clash between police and immigration reform demonstrators.

Bratton tells K-T-L-A T-V he is concerned that 240 so-called "less-lethal" rounds were fired, with no actual arrests made.

LAPD Chief William Bratton spoke to KNBC reporter Robert Kovacik Thursday morning, saying he won't "sugar-coat" the conclusions of investigations into police action against demonstrators at MacArthur Park on Tuesday evening, during a rally for immigrant rights.

"I won't sugar-coat it. It is what it is," Bratton said.

The order was made in English only, and some reporters and protesters said they either did not hear any orders or could not understand what the police wanted them to do.

Andre Birotte, the LAPD's inspector general, said his office would focus in part on why officers used foam rounds on reporters and marchers that videotapes seemed to indicate were not posing a violent threat. According to the LAPD's manual, "less-than-lethal" devices should used only on "violent or potentially violent suspects."

I didn't downvote out of spite. I never do. I downvoted because I thought the video was biased towards assuming that the police were oppressing the people for no reason at all. As to whether that was a fact or not, I saw nothing to indicate otherwise, though a link in your description to any news reports about this would have helped.

I assure you, I never argue with malice and would never downvote a video for such a reason.

ILLEGAL CRIMINAL IMMIGRANTS and ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THEM are WRONG and are revealing themselves to be the worst types of people waving their Mexican flags while spitting on the rights of legal citizens. Illegals are not citizens of this country and SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO PROTEST and those who support these criminals are participating in the ruination of our country. The police warned these protesters to vacate the park. They did not leave and had to be forced out. The police had bottles and rocks thrown at them. For NON-CITIZENS to DEMAND legal rights has to be the ultimate insult to all of us who are here in this country legally. IT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY OBNOXIOUS and I am not surprised the police responded to the RIDICULOUS PROTEST in the way they did. These protesters are nasty people with a very bad agenda. GO TO MEXICO if you do not like it here. This issue has nothing to do with racism-it has to do with criminality and the obnoxious demonstration of it by these illegal and aggressive people. ONLY CITIZENS HAVE RIGHTS. Anyone who supports these illegal Immigrants are morons who are doing great damage to decent law-abiding Mexicans and LEGAL immigrants who are against illegal immigration. And also--LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH!

maby eligal imigrants dont have legal rights as a usa citisen but isent that compleaty besides the piont. thats like saying just because sumone is not a yank then you can just murder them because thay are outside us law. you would hope people had the humanity and respect for other humans regardelss of where thay came from ore if thay are a legal us citisen. laws are in place to try and carve out an avrage system that covers most people. inordor for a soicity to work u cnt just rely on law. u need people who are nice and moral and humane. This typ of protest brake up demonstraits very clearly how the polise manage to make things into a voilent issue and dont actualy help things. the goverment should turn a protest like this into something posative and alow for music and festivities that activly premote what the protesters are trying to comunicate that way people are aware of the issues and it makes it a generaly posative thing.

Jonathan Mann is not a true journalist. His narration of the Mayday protest is the most biased and distorted perception of an event that I have watched in a long time. He supports illegal and criminal behavior and when the police try to do something about it he complains. This sort of ridiculous protest creates very bad feelings and Jonathan Mann fans the destructive flames of anarchy with his pro-illegal immigrant and anti-police commentary. Illegal Immigrants have no rights and that includes the right to protest. You are going down the road of ruin and should try living in Mexico if you don't like it here. Why can't you work on bringing people together in a positive way and have the courage to tell someone who broke the law (like an illegal) that they "broke the law" and are wrong. WAKE UP!

A country that oppresses people based on a passport does not deserve liberty or freedom. You talk about human rights, yet you have Gitmo, I can't wait for the people's backlash now.

Everything that happens due to 'illegal criminals' (as you say) is due to the economic policies followed by Washington. CAFTA? NAFTA? You get what you deserve.

As for your ignorant comments about illegal immigrants and their rights. Please, grow a heart and stop being a robot. These are people just like you.

Your idea of "oppression" is "not being allowed to break the law". Laws are the structure of civilization. Within that structure you have liberty and freedom otherwise that murderer who lives next to you should have the right to kill you ---right? --according to you're thinking. You're either civilized or not. Your desire for violence shows where your at. Violence may come upon you with that mindset. I'm not interested in violence--but I will protect and defend my interests. This whole mess with illegal immigrants in America is due to the "economic policies" of the Mexican Government which allows it's people to live in sub-standard living conditions. Any honest Mexican would admit that. Where is the "Heart" in the corrupt Mexican Government that treats it's people SO BADLY that they become desperadoes. Perhaps you're the ignorant one. I care about people. People who do what is right. Illegals infringe on the rights of all citizens. Just because the Mexican government is crap does'nt mean you have any cause to ruin the living conditions in this country while blaming the U.S. government. You need to straighten out your head. Your rage is showing.

i live in this neighborhood. i live a block and a half away to be exact on 7th st. which runs on the west side of macarthur park (i'm horrible with east and west so i may be off base with that one). but this brings me to tears. this is beyond horrible. it was a peaceful gathering that did not get out of hand. they had every right to be there. la has had riots in the past, but it is not a violent city. macarthur park and rampart (which runs very close to there) have horrible reputations as very dangerous areas, but they are not. that community is an immigrant community mostly made up of salvadorians and koreans. i love my neighborhood and the people who live there. i ride the metro every single day (i don't own a car) in la, and i have to say it totally makes me feel like it's a police state. the cops are there, but they are not there to keep the peace and you feel it. they harass, intimidate, and try to coerce you to incriminate yourself so they can meet their quota for tickets. the illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay in this country and in the united states. they are hard working, great people, and hey guess what, they ARE PEOPLE. they do not take jobs away from "americans" or drive down wages. the dirty local businessmen and corporations drive down the wages and then blame it on the illegal immigrants. all they want is a piece of the "american dream." they want better educations for their children, the money to raise them, and opportunities. the cops had zero right to do what they did including committing acts of violence against the press whom were there. we are strong and will continue to resist the police state and the government that is attempting to oppress the people. i refuse to rest as long as this continues and am thankful for the large activist community that exists in los angeles. this is just sick.

i could go on and on about la and everything that is right and wrong about it, but i'll shut up. macarthur park is beautiful and so are the people who live in the neighborhood, but man this shit blows. my mother called me scared to death wondering if i was caught up in what happened. nobody upsets my mother but me! the LAPD will pay for upsetting my mah!

I think the point that is being missed is that this was a protest citizens and non-citiznes took to the street to voice their opinions and were met whith forceful opposition from the police. America is a nation of liberty won by protest and if this attack by police is the consequence of stating ones view the very core of American idealogy is being attacked. Well unless you see American idealogy to be of upresssion against those who do not agree with the current political agenda. Then this becomes normal and you are not unlike North Korea or Iran or anyother tyranny in the world.

You honestly need to reexamine the place where you come from BlueGW, because clearly historical perspective... nay humanity is not something that exists in your psyche. This was not a violent protest. But I guess you just love living in a corporate run state. Please make sure you know who is talking for who before you try to make a point.

Farhad2000--You ARE the ignorant one aren't you! The premise of the protest is wrong and any future protest waged by and for illegal immigrants is wrong. I heard from people at the protest that the police were taunted and objects thrown at them from protesters. It was a violent protest. In my opinion they should not have fired rubber bullets or responded violently. They should have arrested anyone who is here illegally and then deported all of you who think America is so oppressive BACK TO MEXICO where, of course, the government is wonderful. Why don't you protest the repressive government in Mexico? You have a false cause here. You need education and have no idea what humanity is. It's peculiar that your picture logo looks like a Greek Spartan. The Spartan's were a rigorously controlled "state". The Spartans would have removed you from the streets faster than you could blink if you showed such an insulting lack of loyalty to your country which I'm assuming is America. But you are probably here illegally from the home country you rejected---Mexico or you may be here from a Middle Eastern country (as your name suggests) and just hates America. Just go back from whence you came if you can't adjust here peaceably and lawfully.

I've been reading up on this issue, and from what I know, the protest was getting slightly out of hand. (People wandering into the streets, and mild disruptions.) Police attempted to keep things orderly and were attacked by some people who threw bottles, rocks, etc. (Some say the assaulters were part of the protest group, others claim they were not.) This was when the police started their attempts to disperse the crowd, which resulted in the use of rubber bullets and tear gas.

I'm sure more information will be revealed in coming days. So there's no point in blaming the police, since there are clearly two stories behind this incident. Most likely both parties are to blame here.

In any case, I still stand by my downvote, as my reasons remain valid.

[EDIT]BlueGW, when you're having a proper civil debate, you do not resort to personal attacks on those you are debating with. It's not polite, and it's more conductive to flaming than proper argument. Please keep that in mind.[/EDIT]

Thanks for the psyche analysis based on my avatar, maybe I should put a kitten next and profound you with the depth of my character.

The protest is there because of the problem that is existing today. It is non-violent, you'd have to be a pretty dumb illegal immigrant to go announce your self to the police like that, you think these people are that idiotic? All these people want is state recognition and become tax paying citizens. Am sorry but the large tax resource you seem to think exists doesn't it's all tied up in Iraq right now oh and international debt we owe to like most of the world.

You complain of illegal immigrants and speak of getting rid of them but have no idea of the amount of man power and resources such a scheme would entail, nor to the lively hoods of the thousands of people you would basically uprooting from one location to the next and most of all pushing further in the hardcore criminal world. Instead of trying to workout schemes where integration can occur you seek to basically have mass forced deportation, that would only create more civil unrest.

The mass immigration problem is not here because of a migration but because there has developed a market for low wage labor, the same person huffing at the illegal immigrants on TV one day is the same person hiring the lowest paid labor tommorrow. These people are the ones that clean your streets, your toilets, your dirty labor that no American really wants to do nowadays, and no there is no high wages in low skilled labor, this is not 1964 people, welcome to corporate globalization and I hope you love it because thats what your congress and senate have basically created.

The poor position of the Mexican goverment is directly linked with the interference the American goverment has spread through much of south America, you seem to forget the NAFTA agreement that saw the rise in wage inequalities between these nations. This is poverty. This is wage inequality. This is dilution of the American middle class. One cannot just turn back the clock by mass deportation. Furthermore think of what that would speak of being an American. Because that's not what I know. Just because corporate interest has taken over the government doesn't mean our ideals should go as well.

Go Farhad2000! *munches popcorn*

Everything I want to say has been said by Farhad!

(Unfortunately I think BlueGeorgeWashington is a Quantumushroom clone!)

EDIT-----Sylvester_Ink and Farhad2000-----Sylvester--you have no edit of Farhad2000 who chose to specifically insult and attack my view, first --if you look at the line of comments. I do not appreciate or need your specific written attack on me. This is a serious issue and people like you are making it worse all the time. Why do you not edit farhad2000 since he started it? You choose to defend him who is obviously prone to violence and has an extremely distorted perception. Mexico agreed with NAFTA and was in very bad shape long before that agreement was made. Why not blame Canada for your personal problems while your at it. What do you know about a "civil debate" when I'm being insulted by people who do not even know how to spell. I will sit back now and let the moronic inferno continue regarding my valid comments about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. I resent your criticism. When you speak of "people" --I support the people who respect the laws and customs of the country that they find themselves in---I feel sorry for those"people" who chose to break the law and now want to be bailed out by the American govenment while at the same time hating the American government. PATHETIC!

What you just said about NAFTA shows that you know very little about what these agreements actually do, mean and their effects after implementation. I suggest you explore the facts before you make statements that are not based on any amount of credible knowledge.

BlueGW, I'm curious, what do you think will happen to the price of food in this land if all illegal immigrants in this country are deported? Do you have any concept of just how dependent the produce industry is upon cheap, seasonal migrant labor? Salinas, Bakersfield, Oxnard, Fresno...these are all huge places in terms of production, and are all filled with illegal immigrants working jobs that few Americans will work for pay that few Americans will accept.

Prices are already higher due to the harsh, late-season freezes. If we were to suddenly gut the produce industry of its cheap labor, what do you think happens to the price of your food? Your juice? Your lawn. We haven't even mentioned the problems such a clear-out would have on the supply chain. All kinds of jobs are filled by people in this country illegally who are working for sub-par wages because the American public would rather have Every Day Low Prices and gripe about immigration than acknowledge they are dependent upon illegal labor and actually do something about it.

If you want to fix this, go after the corporations who make it attractive to come here by employing illegals. Remove the incentive. When you're done with that, reform the immigration policies that make legal immigration a tortuously long process. Your prices will rise, but without a reason to hop the fence, you'll have fewer illegals takin yer jorbs.

Wow. Very... verbose.

May want to avoid dropping the 'i'-bomb (ignorant) next time, Farhad, as it only serves to coat any historical and contextual points with a veneer of opinion.

Liked your last sentences, detlev409. The one group at the table that can truly exist with no empathy for anybody else is the corporation (increase shareholder wealth!).

It is not my fault that people choose to be uninformed. This is after all a democracy.

Read your Constitution ignorant morans. peaceful assembly.. it's like in the first 50 words of the Bill of Rights. And now you got paramilitary police thugs literally violating your rights cause they think it's fun and time to test out their new tactics and training.

It used to be illegal to send in "peace officers" to do this kind of dirty work, that is what the national guard was for. But of course they are all off in Iraq. Someday when you figure out what Marshall Law means, I will be laughing at you backwards fascist morans.

I see a lot of good points about not attacking brain dead ignorant mental midgets...

I do agree that it is like attacking Bush for his foreign policies. It really isn't his fault his brain has withered from alcoholism. And I suppose some of you get-r-done types might also suffer from health issues like syphilis that rotted your brain, so I do apologize. Heaven forbid there be a flame war.

The Constitution and Bill Of Rights relates to the legal citizens of America. Illegal immigrants are not citizens. I'm amazed that some American citizens do not know the basics of who has what rights. This is not a 60's style civil rights movement---which was necessary and good---that was for citizens only. We are faced with an incidious invasion of illegal immigrants who for the most part do not respect our customs, language,values and government. It will be too late for us American Citizens when we wake up one morning and we see that the national language is Spanish and the largest voting block are Mexicans who received their "rights" in the most incidious manipulative ways possible. The illegal immigrants now have a sub-culture within our country and they do not try to even learn English--instead we are PUSHED into learning Spanish in our schools. What are all the Afro-Americans and other ethnic groups who are respectable citizens going to do when a Mexican style government runs this country into the ground. I'm out of this country if that happens. We need to stand up for our country before it's too late. The writings on the wall (graffiti). These illegals who boldly and defiantly wave their Mexican flags against Americans are more of a threat to America then the corporations who are ruining things in their own way.

And why do you defend and fight for the human rights of terrorists at GITMO who murder innocent people of all faiths and ethnic groups around the world? What is wrong with you? You need to re-learn what is right and wrong--GET BACK to the basics. There IS something happening here and you don't know what it is, do you, mr. Jones?

“A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither”

- Benjamin Franklin

BlueGW, when you start talking human rights, you step a bit away from the specific issue of immigration, but this sentence demands response:

"Why do we defend and fight for the human rights of terrorists at GITMO who murder innocent people of all faiths and ethnic groups around the world?"

First of all, how dare you conflate immigrants with terrorists. What an obvious and pernicious strawman that is. But to answer your question, we care about immigrants' rights because we're good, honest, reasonable people who themselves make up a nation descended from immigrants. We care about the detainees because humans have rights by virtue of being human, as our Constitution, Bill of Rights, multiple treaties, and our collective sense of decency all affirm, citizen or no. Because the callous deprivation of human rights is evil, no matter the justification.

Most of all because we're just f_cking better than that. If we're to be worth defending, we must uphold the values that make us what we are. You advocate throwing that away. You would make us no better than the enemy you so disdain.

Shame on you.

PS- Farhad, that was a Ben Franklin quote, but no matter how often I see it, I must salute the wisdom in those words.

Don't get your knickers in a twist detlev409! The sentence about the GITMO terrorists is ONLY about the GITMO terrorists. I should have started a new paragraph-which I did.

The Ben franklin quote could be interpreted either way. It is not "liberty" to hand out "Process free' citizenship to MILLIONS of illegal immigrants. They most likely would not be grateful to the Federal government anyway and would go on with misplaced hate of our government.

Shame on you for defending and protecting pre-programmed mass murdering terrorists!

I'll twist my knickers if I want, when you're being ridiculous. You're the one who brought GITMO up. There was no reason to bring it up unless you were trying to draw parallels between the two.

I'm having trouble finding any other way to interpret Mr. Franklin's words, given the context of his life and times. As for "law free" citizenship, I don't recall anyone mentioning that here at all. I've already made my proposals, which have nothing to do with amnesty, so I'm left to wonder if you're not just trying to pick a different fight since there's not much left to go on with the old one.

And lastly, I defend the rights of the pre-programmed mass murdering terrorists because I'm better than them. Because I respect the spirit of law and order that keeps us from degenerating like they have into hateful killers.

Hey BlueBalls, you really really do GW a disservice by using his name. You are one ignorant 'Merikan. You are so astonishingly stupid when it comes to immigration, I can't make heads or tails of it.

First of all, most illegal are not even from Mexico (in states not bordering Mexico). You look at northern states that have huge illegal populations (all working in food and retail ships), and they look "Mexican" to an ignorant fuck like you, but in fact are not. Then you have huge populations of "approved" legal residents that the INS has designated by city. Most INS branches has two countries and those branches get all people from, say Somalia, or Bosnia, etc. Those schools, often in smaller towns, have the same problem you cite about second languages. And these are "approved" legal resident aliens. So what's your issue there? "Learn English you "others"!"

Some day you have to realize this cousin-fucker concept of "others" is just racism and xenophobia. You know this country was founded by many "illegals" who were yearning to be free.

I fight for the rights that are described in the Bill of Rights. Basic human rights, not basic American rights. No where does the Constitution (especially the Bill of Rights) claim that the Government can treat non-citizens differently from those who were born on US soil. It is an ideal of how a fair, good, and noble gov't can act in exchange for us allowing it to exist (an necessary evil).

Who do you think was in the park in L.A.? It's not about checking to see if there are illegals, but rather how many people lost their right under the First Amendment to assemble? You;re arguement is that most people there that day were illegals so the cops can beat and kill them, since they are sub-human... But my issue is how many citizens had their CONSITUTION RIGHTS stolen by riot gear thugs shooting "less-lethal" weapons as innocent, peaceful citizens. And you approve of this because some of those people are from Mexico. I hope and pray that you choke on your Taco Bell and die with pico de gallo foaming from your nose.

Hey Guys-Good Morning to You!

First: detlev409 --- Mr. "Farhad" was the one who first brought up "GITMO" which I responded to. Don't you ever check the sequential line of comments? I believe you have good intentions but they are misguided. Your compassion for merciless jihadists is a grave error in perception and you may well wind up in the grave after you give them a helping hand. Jihadists are programmed to murder as many innocents as possible. They do not care about your good will and are completely dehumanized. They are non-thinking robotic killing machines that exist for the most evil moment when they press that button that explodes the innocent lives of anyone on this planet. It is truly a psychological cancer that is occuring on our planet. Depending on how deeply programmed they are-most are dehumanized forever. You have become a "softy" for jihadists that have lost there connection with humanity--and that is extremely dangerous.

I have noticed that you and farhad have have blurred the issue of "civil rights" to "human rights and "illegal immigrants" to "immigrants" which has become the deceptive strategy of this Illegal Immigrants Rights Movement which is probably one of the biggest misnomers in American history since by definition illegal immigrants have no "civil rights". Ben Franklin (and the other Founding Fathers) would be aghast at the American Government EVEN CONSIDERIING giving citizenship rights to a foreign country's people (Mexico) who illegally broke into and invaded America. If you want to hand over your country (if America is your country) to Mexico --SHAME ON YOU TRAITORS! I'm appalled by your mushy unclear thinking. I am friends with many decent+legal Mexican people--they don't like what the illegal Mexicans are doing because they have the brains to know what is right and wrong. It will put a blight on the Mexican community forever.

Hey Mr. Joe Dirt!---I do not know what planet you live on or what country your in ( you have a "colorful" language) but last time I checked every major news outlet or program the facts show that the MAJORITY of illegal immigrants are Mexican in origin and the conservative estimate is 12 million. One of the other deceptive tactics the illegals use to blur the issue of their illegal acts is racism. I'm not racist. I'm against manipulative dishonest unfair lawbreakers who usually are racist these days since it's so convenient to use "racism" to skirt the issue of one's wrongdoing. People see through you. What you think you know is wrong Mr. Dirt Dirt. You are another one who wants to hand over your counrty. Get your head out of the DIRT.

I knew when I decided to state my views on illegal immigration I would be talking myself blue in the face-hence the name BlueGeorgeWashington --but also because if President Washington were alive today to see what is happening to his country he would be very Blue because of this sad and fractured condition America is in. UNDERHANDED B......turds! Your day of reckoning will come .

Well, I sat back and watched the debate rage for a while, but I'll throw in my 2 cents now. Best to start with the most recent comments by GW. First lets talk about usage of terms:

Jihadists are programmed to murder as many innocents as possible.

aaronfr,

It is interesting how this is mutating into a debate on Islam by you who most likely is a Muslim. I am not going to debate the semantics of using the term " Jihadist" as you know what I mean. I won't be bated into speaking about Islam in general which is not what I'm speaking of-- but specifically Jihad Bombers--your job is to stop the carnage if you have the humanity to do so. There is really no valid excuse for militant Jihad bombers to murder hundreds and thousands of innocent children, women, and men of any and all ethnic groups and religions including killing their own people (muslims). You have the audacity to say that these innocent people who die horrible deaths are not "legitimate targets" yet these Jihadists CHOOSE areas to bomb full knowing that there is a mulitude of innocent people who will be killed who are not "legitimate targets". This cancerous "Jihad" does not abide by the rules set in the Koran in my opinion. If you think it is OK to kill masses of people indiscriminately your dead wrong and as inhuman as the bombers are. If you support an 'armed struggle" without civilized negotiation there is nothing civilized about that and nowhere to go except the path of perpetual MISERY.

I'm concerned about the erosion of Constitutional Rights in this country as well. Apparently you do not care too much about the Rights of Legal Citizens in this country as we should all GIVE IN to the masses of people who want to enter this country ILLEGALLY. No country on this planet could survive if they had open boundaries and just let anybody in. You are being ridiculous. I feel for these desperate people but there is the right path and the wrong path and all it's murky implications.
You should let anyone in your own home who wants to be there-you know--thiefs, murderers, criminals, lawless people in general--let us see how you like it. No screening process. Bring it home!

Every country on this planet had its indigenous tribal people that were eventually taken over by people from other lands. You speak as if the colonists of this country were the only ones in world history who found a new land and set up a working government. You need to study some more world history, in general, and Early American History, in particular. The Founders of America did not "illegally break into" this country. You make it sound like the Founders who created our government all came over on the same boat and illegally broke in! Your lack of education is showing. That is absurd, Sir. There was no political "country" to invade. The colonists were originally friends with the Indians here. Which is the truth. Then it turned into a mess- it's nothing I'm proud of. This is the sad story of Tribal People in virtually every country in the world.
There are so many illegal immigrants but there are millions more legal immigrants and citizens who will defend their rights if pushed too far.. Maybe your defeatist ideology will be in "the dust bin of history" It is truly a bad situation with people who twist historical or religious events to achieve selfish political gain and power. Remember to be non-violent and you will live longer. Keep negotiations open and stop needless protests over divisive issues.

BGW, the only reason George Washington is blue is because sad sacks like you throw his name around in some kind of I-ride-the-short-bus attempt at patriotism. You better think twice before you start calling people here traitors, because most folks around here are more informed than you, more literate than you, and care a hell of a lot more about the USA than you.

Anyone that parrots semi-retarded, oversimplified talking points about immigration is no patriot or fan of the Constitution (or whatever the last hate buzz-words is - islamofascist, gay marriage, etc.)

Look, immigration has always been what makes this country great. If it wasn't for H1-B, student Visa, illegal workers... this country would not have had a dot-com boom. There are more companies than you can imagine started by immigrants and people you hate. In fact, the US is the only major first world country with positive population growth, which can be attributed to ... guest what? You like your Social Security? Guess what is paying for it when you retire? Illegals who pay in and never collect. Guess what makes your WalMart profitable and running smooth? Guess why your stock portfolio goes up? Guess who picks your fruits and vegetables?

What I initally addressed is the LAPD violation of the Constitution. You would willingly give over your Rights in order to spew some "illegal immigrant" hatred. First of all, the Constitution should strive to protect all humans, anywhere. Secondly, go read some constitutional law. (Obviously other than rights to taxpayer funded programs, protection from deportation, and voting..)

Immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, not criminal law. (Until Ashcroft and Abu-Gonzales created Gitmo detention centers)

http://www.slate.com/id/1008367/
http://www.nlg.org/resources/kyr/kyr_english.htm

the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments.

The colonists were originally friends with the Indians here. Then it turned bad.

Hey DIRT--Yep! That's an apt name for you! By the way if you are going to attempt to insult me the word you like to use against those of us who disagree with your hateful and arrogant pea-brained view is spelled "M O R O N" not "M O R A N".
The cases you cite: "US v. Verdugo-Urquidez and Martinez-Aguero v. Gonzales are truly laughable. Sounds like corrupt Government politicking to me .The petitioners were obviously illegal Mexican immigrants like you probably are. Hope you choke on that next burrito. The complexities of Democracy are failing when criminals are given protections concerning their criminal wrongdoing. It doesn't make it right. This is exactly where our Constitutional protections as citizens are eroding. I know you don't care and you're happy about these cases because your probably a criminal. I hope the next thief who breaks into your home and beats you to a PULP and then robs you is fully protected under the laws of this country, and maybe he will even sue you for tripping over the garbage on your floor and hurting himself as he's leaving your crappy place. Yep! That's the government you like!

For the second time (you have to repeat everything to Morans)... It is not a crime or criminal offense to exist and breathe air in a foreign land. It is a policy issue. INS is welcome to deport them all. Heck the border patrol is welcome to turn people away. But it is not a matter for police or redneck vigilantes.

What you fail to understand is that only a few state see large influx of "Mexicans" (said in your derogatory tone). And of the total illegal immigrant population, Mexicans only make up barely of half (54%?). Your classification of Mexicans as criminals who want to break into homes is a sad attempt used by western Europeans for ages against Jews and Gypsies. It is sad that your Moran brethren has resorted to drumming up this kind of fear and loathing because the Schiavo thing didn't work, and the gay marriage thing didn't work (well it did give us Bush.. which again backfired). So "illegals" is the last refuge of the desperate.

I care about this country enough to want there to be a First Amendment
(even if that means a few illegal Mexicans can spend a day in a public park).

I'm desire to live in a USofA that doesn't have militarized police shooting women and children
(in spite of perfectly good Mexican women and children that *could* have been shot)

I want to live in a proud nation that doesn't imprison people without the centuries old Writ or torture people (even Mexicans and muslims)

I wish we could live in a free country without Orwellian concepts as NCLB (No Child Left Behind), HAVA (Help America Vote), "fiscally responsible Republicans", compassionate conservatism, intelligent design, etc. (even an internet free of hate filled, small minded people who can't recognize a parody of themselves)

Mexico is a sh-thole, and now illegals want to recreate that sh-thole here while drinking from the neck of American welfare.

The communists, anarchists and Mexican legals who aid illegals hide behind these protests, welcoming the chaos.

California was lost to savages and moronic movie stars because Whites and Westernized minorities were too lazy and stupid to preserve Western values. They got soft, and now life is hard.

Now as the true minority, Whites must suffer the chaos and filth of an inferior non-American culture run rampant, a culture which has left Mexico, a country rich in natural resources--including oil--a barren wasteland.

We should've given Mexico to the Jews. They would've made it a Paradise with not a bomb-strapped Arab in sight.

These views are the sole property of Quantumushroom. If you don't agree, the worst that will happen to you is you'll be wrong. ha ha ha ha. ha.

I agree with choggie who had the brains to downvote early on in this line of comments.

To Joe DIRT -----now I know your insane! You still don't know how to spell "M O R O N" .

The hypothetical thief in my example was not a Mexican! You make up all kinds of provocative crap! There's no communication with you. You are definitely "out there".

Keep your great sense of humour!!! Bye!!!

Look at yourself, willing to give away actual freedoms for unknown securities. Willing to give away actual ideals for unknown benefits. Nothing but Orwellian pawns with high school vocabularies.

Even if many people ARE considered illegals at this protest, I'm sure a good deal of them are also legal US Citizens in support of the ideas being presented at the rally, regardless of the illegal nature of the subject. Either way you put it someone's so-called "rights" are being illegally trounced upon and I'm surprised BlueGeorge hasn't mentioned this. The government was out of line on this...

Although I do think some of the "reaction" shots/quotes of our fearless reporter seemed a bit, I don't know, stilted/forced/exaggerated? Some things weren't checking out with what he was describing.

QM! Finally a breathe of fresh air. At least he sticks to the wingnut talking points. He also makes his points so blatant, everyone realize there is no hope or humanity left in him, so why try and talk reason. At least QM makes his points well and I can at least respect his position.

Now BGW keeps blathering on without defending his hatred of the Constitution. I'm sorry, what part of "their criminal wrongdoing" and "illegal" and "criminal" didn't imply you were talking about Mexicans. See I read and can even remember all of your vile spew.

if they had open boundaries and just let anybody in.... these desperate people... You should let anyone in your own home who wants to be there-you know--thiefs, murderers, criminals, lawless people in general... No screening process.

Thank you QM.........finally I hear from someone else (besides choggie) who actually has some understanding of what is going on and you actually have the respect of the very conflicted Mr. DIRT-DIRT DIRT who continues to dig himself deeper into the........DIRT! ---- Listen Dirt---It is obvious you hate the U.S. Government so why do you speak about the U.S. Constitution and Bill Of Rights which people like you are destroying. You and some others who commented don't even know about Jamestown or much of anything about American history yet you pull out all this propaganda designed to develop a hatred of America and everything America does. Because of the disrespectful hatred you exude I am not inclined to check out your link which is probably a link to loads of propaganda and,besides that, I don't trust you or any "link" you would offer. I know we do not have a perfect government but it is a hell of alot better then most others in this world and I have spent enough time in many countries to conclude that. Our system of government is being weakened by asinine politicians (such as the Mayor of San Francisco) and people who have no idea what is right and what is wrong (no morals). The standard of living you enjoy here is much better than other countries yet all you seem to "give back" is hatred of the government and system. Do you even live in America? What country do you live in? I am firmly against oppression of people or women by bad governments anywhere in the world but here this huge problem with illegals is different and the situation has wound up oppressing and depressing all of us. Illegals are people who are trying to "cut in front of others who have been standing in long lines" and this is NOT liberty, justice or freedom. IT'S INJUSTICE.

farhad---Tell me what the "actual freedoms" are that you say I'm so willing to give away.

animals for crackers--- I do acknowlege that there were some stupid U.S. Citizens, (who are blindly giving their own country away) at the Illegal Immigrants Rights Protest in their erroneous support of these Illegal immigrants but in my view both the protesters and the police were "out of line" . I certainly don't want a police state. In the "old days" the police would arrest an illegal immigrant and deport such a lawbreaker and these invaders (Foreign Nationals) certainly wouldn't have the "freedom" to parade down our cities streets demanding an astronomical HAND OUT from the American Government which they disrespect and ,for the most part, hate-- as they wave their Mexican flags. The Founding Fathers would be bringing out the Calvary they would be so aghast. And if the Government gives them what they demand, they will not be grateful and WHAT IS IN PLACE TO STOP ANY FURTHER ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?--WAKE UP CITIZENS!!!!!!
I believe the police are extremely frustrated and feel like they have their hands tied and they won't stand there and let these profane creeps throw things at them.
You know the Border Patrol Agents have been virtually stripped of their ability to apprehend lawbreaking illegal immigrants by asinine Courts (seems to be alot of them today). The citizens who support these illegal immigrants are mostly-guess what--Mexicans or citizens who have an immature understanding of what is actually going on and think that this is a fun "60's style civil rights protest" --Weeeee--as THEY SELL THEIR OWN COUNTRY DOWN THE RIVER!
W I S E -U P ! And ---HOW MANY ILLEGAL MIDDLE EASTERN TERRORISTS ARE IN THE MIX --JUST WAITING IN THE WINGS--TO DO THEIR EVIL DIRTY WORK!
Just remember - THE FBI /CIA IS WATCHING YOU !

Ahem.

Let me break it down for you in ways you can understand. This goverment and this administration supports free market economies that support the free movement of labor. This is the administrations stance and it's the stance of both the Federal Reserve and Wall Street. This means that NO deportation of illegal immigrants will occur any time soon. Sorry, but American business interests outweigh the dissent voices of xenophobic people like you. Conservatives have noticed that new citizens even those who were previously considered illegal usually have conservative views in politics. So they are not willing to attack the issue vehemently. Bush fought to capture the immigrant vote.

Professor of Law Francine Lipman writes in a 2006 paper in the peer-reviewed journal Tax Lawyer of the American Bar Association Section of Taxation that the belief that undocumented migrants are exploiting the US economy and that they cost more in services than they contribute to the economy is "undeniably false". Lipman asserts that "undocumented immigrants actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services" and "contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs."

Furthermore regarding your issue with zee evil terrorists invading our shores via Mexico, it's best to know that:

Vice Chair Lee Hamilton and Commissioner Slade Gorton of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States has stated that of the nineteen hijackers of the September 11, 2001 attacks, "Two hijackers could have been denied admission at the port on entry based on violations of immigration rules governing terms of admission. Three hijackers violated the immigration laws after entry, one by failing to enroll in school as declared, and two by overstays of their terms of admission." Six months after the attack, their flight schools received posthumous visa approval letters from the INS for two of the hijackers, which made it clear that actual approval of the visas took place before the September 11 attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Impact

But don't delude yourself thinking that is something its not.

Farhad
You speak as if this"Professor of Law" Lipman is the ultimate authority of the "costs" of the 14 million illegal immigrants in this country to justify your precarious position. It's interesting that this dubious assessment of Lipman gives Lip-service to illegal immigrants who pay no taxes and send a good part of what they earn here back to family and friends down in Mexico-- and this was in the "Tax Lawyer" Journal--very funny! You think I'm just another stupid gullible American who will swallow this pathetic propaganda. I have no respect for this Francine Lipman and what she says is not credible when considering the astronomical costs of medical service and school programs for illegals not to mention the enormous cost to this country for literally re-printing everything in Spanish for those people who are too damn lazy to learn English. Phone messages are twice as long with the English- Spanish format. This all happened due to manipulative political maneuvers by Mexican lobby at Great Cost to the Nation and all other great ethnic groups here in America. Your whole position is ungrateful and extremely critical of what America has already done for the Latino Community -which is bend over backwards for you. We now see billboards and signs in Spanish in the middle of English-speaking cities. That's pretty damn disrespectful. If you choose to live and work in any other country in the world-you have to learn that country's language and customs and RESPECT that country--or your out!

Labeling me xenophobic is a laugh! I respect and love the many international friends that I have. I have been to and stayed in many countries in our world. I fully respect other countries laws and customs--without those you don't have a country anymore. This is a beautiful world we have-aside from ugly and unfair politics--there are those who would like to destroy it all for everybody--the ultimate act of selfish negative hate. No one has the right to take everyone's life away. No matter what brain-washed thinking robotically dictates. No rewards for that ---only grief and punishment eternal.

You must be a simple troll to not respond to any questions posed to you. Also, instead of refuting the economic claim cited by someone from a reputable peer-reviewed journal, you just babble on from your own limited knowledge in a lame attempt to dismiss facts with your own version of truthiness. Why not cite your references into how poor California and Texas are being bankrupted by illegals, who pay taxes from sales tax, DMV fees, property tax, and thanks to Bush and the US Chamber of Commerce, most pay income taxes. (You do know the govt withholds income tax, and if you don't file... like illegals probably don't, they keep it all)

It is a fact that Social Security is being added to by legal and illegal aliens and foreign students who pay into the system and never collect from it.

(BTW, the Border Patrol has unprecidented authority and power thanks to the Patriot Act. Don't you think the formation of a new DHS with unprecedented funding and a tripling of the Border Patrol would be the opposite of what you say. The Border Patrol is welcome to do their job and fight illegal border crossing, no one is against that. Everyone wants a secure border.. everyone but Bush and his corporate friends... and people like you that use it as a rasicist boogeyman)

"WAKE UP AMERICA" must be your code for "WAKE UP WHITE PEOPLE"

Anyways, I pegged you as a Moran and I will edit the VideoSiftopedia to reference Moran to mean an "orwellian troll who uses their hatred of 'others' and Constitutional Rights to defend their position and attack critics"

Its gonna be funny to see medicare and social security demonstrations in like 10 years.

... bunch of old baby-boomers getting gassed and chased around, half of them off their meds, power scooters not fitting into the paddy-wagon, old ladies having heart attacks as non-lethal rounds displace their replacement hips,...

you know what's not funny... racially charged violence.

DIRTY DIRY----You are obviously a racist scum-bag considering the fact you twisted my "WAKE-UP CITIZENS" comment into racist statement of your very own vile little self.

Just try to remember the issue here is ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, not immigration, and yes they should go through "due process of the law" and then get deported for the CHOICE they made for committing an illegal act. There are already many legal Mexican Americans citizens here who do respect America and follow the law and know how to speak English. They are not RACIST AGAINST WHITE PEOPLE like you apparently are.

Seems like your arbitrary definition of an "Orwellian Troll" is AN EXACT DESCRIPTION OF YOURSELF---just look at Dirts string of comments.

Everyone should watch the "60 Minutes" interview with Mr. Lou Dobbs who is one of the few who has the courage to speak out against illegal immigration! I hope there will be many more. Anyone reading these comments who is against this illegal activity of illegal immigration should have the courage to speak out NOW --log on--- share your views.

There are way too many illegal immigrants who are racist, uneducated and vile who are speaking out. They need to be put in there place--which is out of this country before they ruin it for everyone.

Your one source of information is Lou Dobbs of CNN. Let me guess before this it was off shore businesses right?

Please.

Lou Dobbs??!!! I wouldn't trust him. He belongs to the National Association of Hispanic Journalists. Now this wacko group issues press releases like, Instead of using illegal immigrant, alternative labels recommended are "undocumented worker" or "undocumented immigrant."

Never said Lou Dobbs is my "one source" of information, Farhad, I have mutliple sources of information including everyday life experience. Truth be known--I just found out about Lou Dobbs yesterday as me and my lady friend were watching 60 minutes. Needless to say, I was inspired to know that someone in the public eye is speaking out. This is a man of integrity. His wife and in laws are Mexican. He actually worked in the fields with legal migrant workers when he was younger and he and his mexican wife and in laws find the illegal immigrants demands to be abhorrent and wrong. LEGAL MEXICAN CITIZENS SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEIR ILLEGAL MEXICAN BRETHREN. These illegal assholes are going to ruin it for all of us. Stop asking for hand outs!
I do recommend that everyone reading this please check out CNN.COM for Lou Dobbs--he is a great source of truthfull information unlike other journalists on the major networks who have no spine or courage to speak about illegal immigration and it's destructive affects.
Tell me about your sources of information, Farhad. Is it the Congressional Mexican Caucus?--- who are so imbecilic that they judge anyone to be "racist towards Mexicans" if they do not eat mexican food! It might give me a glimmer as to why your so dense. Why can'y you admit that illegal immigration is wrong? Let's find out the truth, are you an illegal immigrant? Do you live in America? Where do you live? Read Lou Dobbs.

Dirty Dirt, Lou Dobbs can teach you much. You must read everthing by Lou Dobbs at CNN.COM. You are lost. Maybe you can straighten your crooked ass out before it's too late! Don't talk to me until you have read everything by Lou Dobbs at CNN. You are dangerously racist. You used the term "half breed" before towards me in a derogatory way. Do you hate those of us who are who have genetics from other ethnic groups other than pure bred Mexican's as you apparently are?
Do you live in America? What do you do for a living? I'm curious. Why did you become a racist? There is professional help that I can direct you to.

I watched CNN since the first Gulf War actually put them on the map. You picked up the other day. If you have been following it as long as I have you would know that Lou Dobb's originally kept bashing away at the out-sourcing problem before corporations basically told him to go pursue another issue that didn't infringe on their interests. He used to give away "Out-sourcing America" on every goddamn show. He is a journalist and in our day age he fails to make the distinction known between legal and illegal aliens, creating a impression that the country is being over run by people of a different ethnicity, because people like you just LOVE and EAT that shit up. And in our time of media shockers, it matters who gets the most gut reflex reaction, CNN after all losing the war to Fox News.

You failed to answer any directed question at you and kept spewing the same line over and over, basically whittling down a national issue down to semantics of the law instead of actually dealing with the problem at hand. What you state will not solve illegal immigration it will only deepen it further, you want a BAND aid fix to something that requires surgery. You wanna live in a world of closed borders go ahead. But know that 15,000 KM up and the every fucking country looks the same. EXACTLY THE SAME.

My sources are BBC News, The Economist, Harpers Magazine, Newsweek and a seas of blogs from here to the moon. Am a illegal immigrant that lives in your neighborhood, stealing your cable.

Phew.. Ok, I'm done. I read all of CNN.com articles by Lou Dobbs, all 897 of 'em. No really, I needs to be 'edumacated' and racially tolerant as you are. I want to be made into a proud USA lovin' Moran, so I can join you at the vigilante rally and citizen border patrol enlistment ceremony.

When I said you were a "half breed", I clearly meant that one of your parents was a goat (maybe sheep or llama). I would never insult any human race by implying half of any race could create something as hateful and small-minded as you. I may be slightly anti-goat.. so you got me there!

I'm not talking to *you* until you answer some questions first.

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