Sad.

I smell a bunch of half-truths. Second, I didn't see anybody worshipping George Bush. All I saw was a picture of Bush and the narrator saying that they worship it. I'm not really ready to believe everything I hear.

http://kidsinministry.com/Articles.Teachings/JesusCamp.html

The camp's take on the documentary. They don't exactly deny bowing before the Bush (as we all should do if we don't want to be subjected to 'alternative interrogation methods').

The kids are simply modeling behavior they see in their parents and authority figures, just hoping to make them happy. They're way too young to seriously process any of this.
You might see similar modeling at an atheist kids camp (and those exist, too), only it would be nowhere near as fucking crazy as at Jesus Camp. Just let the kids be kids. Curiosity (or lack of it) about theology will come as they age, and they should be able to make up their own minds without it being doctrinaired into them.

well said, theo

You hit it, Theo. Kids are like little computers...they simply run whatever program you put into them. The trick is teaching them to be open to their own conclusions.

The good news is that half those children will see what's been done to them and get smart. I went to a Fundie High School where they held record burnings (I scored an original White Album and my beloved Pink Floyd collection, to name a few...I loved the record burnings) and held daily chapel where the students were encouraged to insult other religious beliefs. What I saw in the clips is very similar to what I was forced into.

While the "Warriors...but fun" thing is scary, it isn't much different than it was 20 years ago. The difference is, now it has shown itself. Now, at least, people can see the danger.

That's all well and nice Daphne, Swampgirl and Theo. But for every kid that escapes indoctrination and actually wakes up there will be others that won't and usually thats the majority.

Further more this bible camp is just one part of a chain of Educational systems that spread well into college and university. If indoctrination is allowed to occur from an early age right up to and until maturation. They want these kids to then take office in the goverment, lord forbid you get someone completely off it who wants to destroy the entire middle east because israel has to exist for the apocalypse to occur.

I mean all they are doing is creating people with closed minds, the same people who quite frankly I believe voted Bush for a 2nd term in office. Because these camps don't create free thinking individuals, they create copy cats who seek leaders to lead them. How else do you explain the fact that during the 2nd running for the president seat, somehow the republican party managed to take the shift away from the iraq war, terrorism and the economy and center it on moral issues and gay marriage? Closed minded people just made homosexuality illegal. Something that quite frankly would never ever affect you unless you are homosexual yourself.

These kinds of organizations create people who are closed minded, rooted in their beliefs and oppose any other stance that might be presented. And especially here, where the camp wants to create spiritual warriors even saying that this is the same thing that happens in other nations of faith.

I believe I was making the case against indoctrination, wasn't I, farhad?
Even still, I wouldn't go so far as to put responsibility for the Worst President Ever (not to mention the Legislative and Judicial branches) on it, as this administration has never exuded much morality or true Christianity, in my humble opinion.
They've falsely cloaked themselves in it, and a fat, stupid, and scared American populace fell for it. I believe they called that the coming of the Antichrist in Revelations...

"As this administration has never exuded much morality or true Christianity, in my humble opinion. They've falsely cloaked themselves in it, and a fat, stupid, and scared American populace fell for it. I believe they called that the coming of the Antichrist in Revelations..."

Agreed totally. Now this a point you and I have reached over the span of 2 or 3 posts. Yet something like this doesn't resonate through a majority of the populace. People still do no question the information that is presented to them. Be it Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson or Bush delivering a message wrapped in God talk. People are too obident to the bastions of faith.

I mean look at this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns-kPDVXACE

OMG JESUS!

To jump in on the conversation...

I think this goes beyond indoctrination. Sure, some of these kids will grow up, spark up their first jay, and realize that the world isn't quite so serious, but many of them won't. I make it a hobby of mine to converse with evangelical types wherever I run across them and try out logic on them. It generally doesn't work regardless of age. And this is all even more frightening if you watch the rest of the interview with the camp leader on the movie's website - www.jesuscampthemovie.com - basically, the woman is training Christian suicide bombers. (a slight exageration... but only slight)

Along the lines of daphne's computer comment... Think of brain cells as being able to connect a limited amount of synapses with each other. With repetition, these connections become more and more effortless to the point where it is habitual. As these are more and more embedded in the brain, it becomes harder to form new synapses and break old ones without some sort of event triggering the release of the old ones. My point being, they hard wire the brain to accept only certain synapses while rejecting others. I'm sure memes fit in here somewhere...

or maybe its too late and im rambling at this point. but it's the internet, and im anonymous. so i don't mind.

long story short - this looks like a great movie. Also check out Hell House http://www.hellhousemovie.com/hellhouse/index.html if this topic (christian fundie indoctrination) fascinates you.

I just thought of something...

Maybe this is all just a joke cooked up by landover baptist church www.landoverbaptist.org

It would make things a bit less frightening....

I wish that would have been true pass.the.grog.

Here's hoping they all spark jays, maybe take some LSD, am sure that's definately rattle those synapses

Disturbing. I am a Christian, and I don't even like GWB.

LOL, its North Dakota, NORTH DAKOTA. LOL. Sorry I'm next door in Montana. So if your freaking out don't. They have that same sort of thing here. Nothing really comes of these camps later on the kids discover the opposite sex, beer, drugs, etc. Just ABC making news to get you all riled up. Notice we have a right wing christian and a left wing feminist taking opposite sides and they are probably both so far off from the mainstream that they probably should both be visiting a therapist.

Ok, I made a comment about this vid on another post..so to be fair I'll say it here too.
I didn't vote for this because I just felt weird supporting abc's obvious editing to sell a story. The Bush poster being worshiped seemed a bit sensationalized for the audience.
Don't get me wrong...the rest of it I totally buy. The camp speaks for itself without having to resort to propaganda to beef it up.

"Notice we have a right wing christian and a left wing feminist taking opposite sides and they are probably both so far off from the mainstream that they probably should both be visiting a therapist."

Notice we have a self-righteous dunderhead whose expertise on "mainstream" ideologies manifests itelf in such inane dross he probably should be visiting a proctologist to help pull his head out of his ass.

Did I just get called a left-wing feminist??????

LOL.
Well.... you or swampgirl.

I've never been called that before, so it must be Daphne. ;-)

zeth, what is the "mainstream" opinion for this vid..yours? Your opinion is one of dismissal which if that is "the mainstream", then you've diagnosed the reason why this crap goes on unchecked in neighborhoods in all states, not just North Dakota.

You can't look at what these camps do to children and say the effects last just long enough till something else catches their attention. This isn't a fad or phase they go through...they are being brainwashed!

This post is an example of child abuse.

Wether it is dragging your kid in front of an army recruiting station to protests the war, or dragging them to this sort of garbage, or setting them down in the mosque to preach hatred... kids should not be used to spread the ideologies of their parents.

That being said, I don't think they should be relating the existence of a few camps like this as being the sole reason that number of Christian's is rising, or its popularity.

And, when it comes to being "inflexible" on the issue of homosexuality... well, that's being a little one sided (You don't see too many homosexuals "bending" on the issue.) Not that I support the evangelicals... I just don't like any reporting that uses an example to prove their point, while neglecting to mention that it also destroys their stance as well.

"You don't see many homosexuals bending on the issue".

Is that flame-bait, or just unbelievable ignorance?

Is rabid fundamentalist Christianity nature or nurture? I never could tell.

Or is it just simple deviance?

KaiEr, believe it or not, most Mosques do not preach hatred, I know it is a common misconception, if all you do is watch mainstream media. So to like Islam to hatred is akin to lumping all Christians in with this 'Jesus Camp' type of indoctrination.

Don't try and back out and say it was an example because your wording, while subtle and innocent, was unmistakable.

Christianity is not 'more popular' or increasing in population relative to Islam. You can throw a post-Cold War Russia and China into more relaxed religious practices and increasing numbers in those countries, but I don't know why anyone would think Christianity is popular. As a matter of fact, thanks to Bush and US foreign policies, Christianity is quite un-popular right now.

You are also wrong on the issue of homosexuality.. Gay marriage is still being used as a political platform and scare tactic to fire up the evangelical base (the largest percent of voting Christians in the US).. Not as much as 2004, but they have slightly switched to a 'immigration' boogey-man.

This Jesus Camp / evangelical-training-camp is no different than pageant kids. If you think pageant kids or ice-skating kids is abuse, than clearly this is just as bad. Forget what weak minded crap they are feeding the kids.. They are abusing their kids trust and well-being. And preaching hate. (Hence the cardboard cut-up of Bush... You can't find a better poster-boy for hatred.. Don't think so, name one person since Dr. Mengele pushing for legalizing torture!)

Funny thing is, if you raise a child without exposing him to anything religious they natrually come out atheists.

we are ALL born atheists!! *wink*

I think you are both totally wrong on this. Maybe correct in principal, but not with current meaning of atheist. If you look at prehistoric humans, indigineous cultures, etc. I think you can clearly state that the natural state for humans in animism, or maybe spiritualist.

I think we are all born with wonder and concepts of spirituality, but certainly not the concepts held by organized religion. Most people feel there is some greater powers at work, or have a greater sense of wonderment in nature. The trouble with most people reaction to 'atheist' is a lack of religion, or a belief in science in place of religion, instead of hardcore view of total lack of any deity. In some ways science can be a religion or viewed as an explanation for much of what religion seeks to explain.

sorry joe ... but the "current meaning of atheist" hasn't changed ... it's definition has always been defined as: without god (religion).

i don't believe that we are born in a natural state of animism or being spiritualistic ... those both contradict the definition of being an atheist. if parents or elders do not introduce any religious doctrine into a child's life ... they have no knowledge of such. as the child ages they may question: why are we here? where do we go when we die? etc ...

i don't really have any issues here as i do agree that we are all born with a sense of wonder ... but how those 'wonders' are handled is what really forms our belief in spirits, god(s) and/or an afterlife!

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