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Not sure what annoys me most. The fact that the religious, condescendingly, finally accept the facts borne out by science, or that they constantly shift the goal posts by acknowledging that their was a big bang but, because science has yet to explain its cause, god must have done it. The "god of the gaps" is diminishing rapidly thanks to science filling the gaps. Soon all they will have left is one question; Why? And that is the same question we all have. I suspect that if that question is ever answered, we will ALL be surprised.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

If that was true then we would not really have a problem with Choggies bullshit tin foil ranting, calling it another perspective. That fucker calls bullshit multiple times a day and has made nothing but a joke of himself, he is not right at all during the day. ... or night.

You'll have to get over the annoyance. It's crazy to think that religion - which thrives on such an entrenched part of the human psyche and is so deeply intertwined with history - will just admit defeat and lay down all of its claims to relevance in the face of any adversity. The best we can hope for is a long and gradual retreat.

I'll take what I can get. Relegating God to merely an abstract influence as the cause of the Big Bang has very little relevance to anyone's day to day life, whereas denying evolution, climate change, etc... is significantly more detrimental to scientific progress.

^^^^^^ Yep.

Let people be, even if they are "wrong." Just stay out of the science classrooms.

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The follow up question to this is, how can you tell the difference between evolution guided by god, and evolution NOT guided by god?

See, this is a good example why I wouldn't consider myself an atheist. Just like the religious folk out there insist they know that god exists atheist insist that there can't be one.
The only thing we know as a fact is that many, if not all, the things people think they know about gods and the bigger questions of philosophy are wrong.
Atheism is, like it or not, a belief. Sure, it's guided by scientific fact and therefore much more acurate than most religions (yup, went there, called atheism a religion) but certain concepts (like the idea of divine creators) haven't been proven wrong so far. Maybe some day we will but the important part is this: we haven't yet. I don't even think we ever will. Somehow many people considering themselves atheist seem to think that since we have proven most religious texts to be false and/or unreliable is a proof of the nonexistence of any god. It is certainly not. We proved the bible to be wrong, that's all.
Personally I don't belief in any gods either. Heck, I even reject the concept of "souls". IMO were just happen to be self-aware machines of biological technology (for a lack of a better word) that are here because of whogivesafuckIdontknow. I am probably best characterised as an apatheist. Asking yourself and arguing about the question of any gods existence or possible life after death or even if we have a soul is pointless. At this point there is no answer that can be scientifically proven in sight. Why even bother asking? If the answer to such pressing questions (cause you have at best only 120 years until you die) is out there, it'll find us on it's own. We'll stumble over it if it's necessary.
I certainly support the fight against religious ignorance that has plagued mankind so far (and won't stop any time soon) but I just can't get past the irony of people who know to trust science (science is nothing you can believe in, just like math you accept it's as true or live as the fool who thinks 2+2=4 is a dirty lie) but still think they know answers to questions science can't answer yet.
I don't believe in a white, old, bearded dude living in the clouds watching me masturbate but I'm also not foolish enough to think I know more than the scientists of the world do. Somehow many atheist seem to be that kind of fool.
Let us just appreciate the fact that Pat Robertson of all people embraces the truth of evolution. Who cares if he thinks God is responsible? I doesn't matter. We can't prove him wrong. What matters is that he is siding with the smart people in this debate.

The issue then becomes, if we start accepting scientific facts like the big bang and evolution, that moves stories like Adam and Eve, the flood, tower of babel and the like become parables. Which I am fine with, I was fine with that when I was a Christian as that is the most likely scenario, the problem is where do we draw the line at what is parable and what is literal? Why did the creator of the universe make himself known to only one tiny tribe of people in a backwater part of the world some 6,000 years ago, and not to all of humanity around the world, why not have prophets all over? It is either a local deity, like Odin,Athena, Ra and the like, or a racist jerk.

No science will never probably answer what was there before the big bang, time itself didn't exist... That is perhaps the only valid "gap" for a god to fill. We understand how the universe came to be in its present state fairly well, with a few odd issues like dark matter/dark energy to be resolved but those are filling in. Abiogenesis is early enough in the its understanding of life origins to be a small gap, but that is filling, and the process of biological evolution is fully understood and well mapped out.

In the end the problem is that there seems to be no god actively moving on the universe or people's lives. We don't see properly documented limbs growing without science. We don't see a consistent result from praying to only the Christian God compared to praying to some Hinu god to get results (praying itself is slightly better than not, but it doesn't matter to whom is prayed, praying to the flying spaghetti monster is just as effective as praying to Yahweh or Kali). If there is a God, then he is ineffective, and that in the end is a problem for religion... and ultimately what is the point of worshiping a god that only wants people to praise and worship him while giving us nothing in return? Wohoo I believed in God (Yahweh) and now get to spend eternity praising and worshipping him full time with no distractions like work and having fun with the family...basically I get to do the same thing the angels do (and they apparently have a choice in the matter since 1/3rd of them followed Lucifer in praising him over Yahweh)... what's the point of that? To avoid the hell he created for those who chose not to end up being his praise slave 24/7 for eternity? Let me see evidence, let me see him do something for me in my life here and now, then I'll believe.

Some people are never satisfied. Personally, I'm so tired of the extremists views on both sides (and believe me, Pat Robertson is often the source of pretty nasty extreme views) that this was actually refreshing. Some people are just so cynical, they can't appreciate anything less than Pat Robertson and Jesus himself coming forward as atheists.

Here's my view on it for those who may care:

Religion is pretty worthless. Sure it's been the cause of lots of horrible (and good) things through history, but it's also an attempt to combine what some deem as fact with something that's so beyond fact that we can't even comprehend it. It's man made. Full of errors and contradictions, blah, blah, blah. We all know that. Basically it all just falls apart whenever you try to throw science in there. It's like judging an apple by the standards of screwdriver.

So let's look at just the spiritual side of things. This is where I hang out. I see it as something beyond science (though uses science as it's tool) and factual understanding. It goes beyond nitpicking this fact and that falsehood. It's just a thing in the air that you can either be in touch with or not. If you are (and I am) then it fills a gap. Gives you hope. Comfort. Peace. Lots of things that are indescribable. But you feel better when you have it and you can't choose to believe in it or not. You just do. If you don't buy into it, then there is no gap to begin with. Doesn't make you smarter or better. You just have different needs.

Now maybe that means that in some dark recess of your psyche that if you're in touch with this spiritual side of things, then you die believing you'll be in an amazing place for eternity. And so you are. Or you don't believe, and so you aren't. Neither is better or worse compared to the other because they have no business being compared to the other. They don't coexist. They just both exist.

I think whatever it is that you believe in sets a standard for your life. Following those things, being true to those things, is what it's all about. This completes you. You can't force them on others or yourself for that matter. You can't punish others for not playing by your rules. You just have to play by your own (as long as you don't harm others).

And I'm tired of spiritualism HAVING to mean pure magic. Science is magic. Science is the most amazing magic. Does things you'd never believe. It's not an insult. It's just makes the whole damn system that much more incredible. If you choose to call that magic, go right ahead. It's just a word. Before long we'll realize that science can do things magic only dreamed of and that's pretty damn magical.

By the way, I'm not typing this trying to change anyone's mind or act like it's some kind of original thought. I'm just typing some thoughts. I like this kind of shit. Debates are great and healthy. I'm just sick of people hating on or insulting folks for believing in their heart something that's different.

Yeah, except you're wrong here. Are there some Atheists who "insist that there can't be" a God/gods? Sure, I suppose....but that's not requirement.

Do you believe in a God/gods? If the answer is NO then you are an atheist. I don't know of many atheists that "insist that there can't be" one....just that there is no evidence that convinces them that there is one.

Like Bill Nye said in the debate....what would make him change his mind? Evidence.