Agree, in countless ways.

#1 - the Attorney General is a political hack and a shameless liar.

A vague and flawed premise, but what the hell!

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - In America, you're not forced to display flags or any other patriotic paraphernalia, nor are you required to attend "pro-government" rallies where your absence results in punishment. A greater concern would be the large numbers who are openly anti-patriotic, with little cause.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Liberals want foreign invaders (as well as illegal aliens) to automatically be protected by American law. Abu Ghraib was an anomaly, not the norm.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - Islamonazis are not a fictional creation. As for the rest of the tags, yeah, if you oppose the principles of the Founding Fathers, which do NOT include "free" health care, education, etc., then you're something else besides loyal to the Constitution. You're not a bad egg but you're not a capitalist, either.

4. Supremacy of the Military - The Constitution provides for the common defense but not for Health-Education-Welfare, but we waste an equal amount or more on the latter.

5. Rampant Sexism - We've got a woman prez candidate who's a bigger fascist than all the men combined. Socialism is just fascism with a smile.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Not with the internet.

7. Obsession with National Security - "Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." Common to all governments at all times. Excessive fear is bad, but not healthy fear. If anything, half the nation is clueless that there is a very real War on Terror being fought every day.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - USA is not a theocracy, but was generally founded on Judeo-Christian principles. "Love thy neighbor" is not unique to any one religion. It's the "freedom FROM religion" crowd that has the problem with perceived theocratic rule.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - All power that has power is protected, to some degree. The Department of Education should be scrapped yet it's still around. Power is power.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Modern labor unions have used up the goodwill of their members and the buying public. Greed is greed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - "Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia." What about open hostility to free markets and free ideas by Marxist academics? Who do you think pays for state-funded kollijes?

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Our death row scum more often die from old age.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Corruption is the grease of democracy - Alex Hamilton. America has one of the LEAST corrupt governments (they do all their stealing openly).

14. Fraudulent Elections - It's only a fraudulent election if Democrats lose.

Right or Left depending on where you stand is where it begins. Its one of those questions of perspective. Video doesn't have real arguement, really weak. Exmaples can be used to show how this video derives its arguement. For example if we were to compare that to China we look pretty tolerant. If we compare ourselves to the Netherlands then you can see the facism.

Left-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Center---------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------Right

Quantumushroom is brilliantly deluded.

Liberal and atheist and conservative are all illusions and labels. We're all human and we all strive for our own personal happiness and freedom.

USA was not founded on christian principles in the slightest, that's a widely held misconception.

I'm just glad I'm not an American....

I dislike Bush and all, but to believe this is fascism requires a massive leap and you're really just letting your bias get the best of your common sense. I'm going to critique this opinion, because I'm tired of being a liberal and having other liberals making my position look bad by their flawed stances.

1. Nationalism is not in and of itself a bad thing.
2. This one only comes off looking strong because it shows pictures of Abu Ghraib, an isolated incident. Though arguments could be made for *some* things that have happened in America, they would be *highly* debateable and not anywhere near what could be considered "disdain" for human rights.
3. Grouping enemies into a unified cause is not uncommon in humanity itself, so this alone is not that bad.
4. This is definitely true. There is far too much military spending.
5. Rampant sexism? WTF? Silly, moving on...
6. Fox News is one media station. The government does not control the mass media. Media slams Bush all the time, and there is certainly no one stopping people from going on the internet to make videos like this to slam him.
7. This is true, but not without reason. Though it is taken overboard.
8. Religion and government are no more intertwined than they have always been. Bush being a religious man himself does not meet this criteria, as much as the video creator is trying to stretch it to. If you actually pay attention to politics and not just your own rampant delusions, Bush actually doesn't talk about religion all that much in an official capacity.
9. Favoring big business is a fairly common economic strategy and although I disagree with it, in no way indicates someone is fascist.
10. Labor power is suppressed? What? Moving along...
11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts?!!! Intellectuals and the arts are just fine. Just because Bush isn't that good at forming a complete sentence doesn't somehow imply we are a step away from executing intellectuals.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment... The patriot act was enacted with a time limit, at which point it would be voted upon once more. It exists because the representatives of the people allowed it to. It is not the doings of a fascist dictator.
13. Cronyism and corruption... with a picture of Dick Cheney. I suppose he blew by this point so fast because he couldn't think of any good examples, and decided showing Cheney was enough. This administration, bad as it is, doesn't seem much more corrupt than the last one.
14. Fradulent elections. It was an extremely close election, and unless you have evidence it was fradulent, don't just assume that it was and think you made a point.

Sorry guys, but I'm tired, once again, of trying to focus on real issues as a liberal, then some losers spout off "BUSH IS A FASCIST" and makes it look like I'm on the side of a bunch of 10 year olds. Stick to the issues, eh?

Dude that is supposedly an expert that this guy mentions said that all 14 traits are common to all dictatorships, and this administration makes like 4 or 5 if you *really* want to stretch your imagination.

Lol, yeah irishman, in an almost completely christian country at its foundation, christianity played no role in the principles of culture, law, or philosophy of the foundation of america. Granted most of the founding fathers weren't overly religious but the basis of the the documents and law at the time were tailored with protestant christianity in mind, it would have been hard otherwise to make the people of the original 13 states to go along with it if the

"USA was not founded on christian principles in the slightest"
but seriously irishman where did you get the information to base this statement on?

Good for you smiley, I'm glad I am an American.

This is a poorly made video rehashing 14 points that have been argued (and backed up) more eloquently elsewhere. But I guess it does spark discussion (as religion and politics are always bound to do).

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, ..."

That is freedom from religion - in our government. What is perplexing to me, is many people seem to think that

"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"

somehow negates the first clause. The guaranteed right to religious expression is extended to individuals, not to the offices of government.

It's also worth noting that,

"no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." -U.S. Constitution, Article VI. (Note that this is in the context of both Federal and State legislators and office holders.)

Seems pretty clear that whatever their personal spiritual beliefs might have been, the Founding Fathers were adamant that religion and government should be kept as separate as possible without infringing on the right of individuals to believe and practice their religion.

The song in this video
http://www.videosift.com/video/Fascism-Lets-not-make-the-same-mistake

To all the Fascist apologists.


"Grouping enemies into a unified cause is not uncommon in humanity itself, so this alone is not that bad." (do I even need to comment on this one?)

"you're not forced to display flags or any other patriotic paraphernalia" (You're refuting a point that was never made, it's not about being FORCED into nationalism)

"Abu Ghraib was an anomaly, not the norm." (hmm renditions, secret detention camps, Gitmo, seems pretty normal to me)

"Islamonazis are not a fictional creation" (well they kind of are, but jews weren't fictional either and they were used by the Nazis to excuse their actions fiction/truth has no bearing)

"Socialism is just fascism with a smile." (actually, philosophically they're at opposite ends of the spectrum)

"Controlled Mass Media - Not with the internet." (most people don't consider the internet MASS media, but you may have a small point here (although they are TRYING their best to control it))

"Obsession with National Security... Common to all governments at all times." (You don't know much about other countries do you?)

"Modern labor unions have used up the goodwill of their members and the buying public. Greed is greed." (Actually labour vs top management wages even in unionised environments has been widening since the '50s. Unionised employees are the only class of employees to see their adjusted (for inflation) income remain stable, others have been on a steady decline while top management has increased tenfold.)

"Who do you think pays for state-funded kollijes?" (actually that as many of the other comments are referring to society as a whole)

"Our death row scum more often die from old age." (and the USA is one of two countries in the world that executes minors and the mentally handicapped)

"America has one of the LEAST corrupt governments" (is this just wishful thinking? I see nothing in evidence that backs you up)

"It's only a fraudulent election if Democrats lose" (or if the supreme court "decides" what the final vote says in spite of facts to the contrary)

"This administration, bad as it is, doesn't seem much more corrupt than the last one." (the essay is about the state of affairs generally, but I'd have to say on any scale the bushies are way more corrupt than the clintonians, what you have a phony real estate scandal that was created by the right wing fiction machine and a few blow jobs vs engineering a massively wasteful war because your family happens to have a lot of shares in the Carlyle group, Halliburton etc. and stands to profit in a big way from a long drawn out war.)

"Favoring big business is a fairly common economic strategy" (yes but allowing corporate corruption to the degree of Ken Lay at Enron and then giving him a slap on the wrist (Clinton) which never even took effect because he was pardoned before he could be punished (Bush))

God I could go on and on. Suffice to say that if you actually did any research and tried to back up your arguments on facts you'd find that the video essay is actually very accurate. The USA is currently a Fascist state. Now quit turning a blind eye or apologising for it and DO something about it.

Hitler maintained his power through exactly the same kinds of attitudes in his population, look at what you've said and apply it to Germany in the '30s-'40s, do you honestly believe that people weren't making the same excuses then as you are now?

Wikipedia: "Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the needs of the Nation, and seeks to forge a type of national unity, usually based on, but not limited to, ethnic, cultural, or racial attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, authoritarianism, statism, militarism, corporatism, populism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, racism and opposition to economic and political liberalism."

Clearly, quantumoron qualifies as a fascist, and would no doubt be proud to self-identify as such - if only it didn't still carry the stigma that they've managed to attach to liberalism.

the statue of liberty has been closed since sep II , what could make a better statement than that , easy to not see these as bad steps , you defend the steps and those that made them .
Why is our government no longer transparent ? and how can that be good?

No Drachen, the video is not very accurate. It barely even says anything. It tries to make a point on a few of the signs and then just breezes by all the others, sometimes showing a picture or two so that the audience will jump to their own hasty conclusions without any actual evidence having been presented.

Some of you seem to not know what fascism is. It's sad enough that I don't even know why I'm here arguing this. Oh, but I'll continue anyway.

When a fascist government has mass control of the media, it's not one news network (that people can choose to watch or not voluntarily) that has an obvious bias, while there are several others without that bias. A fascist government shuts down any station that disagrees with them and controls any news that gets out.

Disdain for human rights doesn't refer to some bitch at Abu Ghraib pointing at a tied up guy's privates. It refers to massive discrimination against certain groups of people. For example, the genocide at Darfur. Ethnic cleansing in Rwanda. Keeping prisoners of war at Gitmo, while some may find it bothersome in terms of human rights, is nowhere near what a fascist dictator would do.

God, all the bitching and moaning about Bush. He's a fascist! He's a fascist! Go to any serious political forum and start saying this crap. You'll get laughed the hell out for not even knowing what a fascist government is.

Once the government shuts down CNN, MSNBC, and all the other news stations, then you can talk. When they decide to start executing all the Gitmo prisoners instead of releasing them or continuing to detain them, then you can talk. When Bush starts demanding his voice be heard over a loudspeaker in every city and town for a daily prayer, then you can talk.

As it is, you are just humiliating yourself.

-- Edited for idiocy --

Ah, the good ol' reliable Things Aren't That Bad And/Or Are Worse Elsewhere argument.

Aren't we the greatest country in the world, chum? Shouldn't our standards be a little higher for ourselves, if not the rest of the world? Are you a communist, sir?

-- Edited for more idiocy --

I agree with this video on so many levels, as an American:
1. We are so overly pro-military...yes we are probably the most powerful military force in the world...yet we use it only to procure oil and ignore genocide (Darfur)
2. Protesters of ANY kind are now labeled "terrorists" or (at best) "un-American", when, in reality, dissidence is the highest form of patriotism AND is what founded this country
3. Sexism is not that laughable...I don't think Hillary would be raising so many old, white eyebrows if she were a man
4. Religion and government have been intertwined in a very distubing way, since Bush hired so many (150) in his administration, based solely on their status as graduates from Pat Robertson's College.
5. Cronyism, cronyism, cronyism.
6. The right wing has led a campaign based solely on fear mongering since September 11, 2001, and luckily for them, many Americans are stupid and lazy and PREFER to be told what to think (scary, scary shit)
7. Face it...Bush is a retard whose father just happened to be President of the United States for one crappy term and whose brother just happened to be governor of Florida during the 2000 (edit) election (ya know...Florida...the one state upon which the 2000 (edit) election hinged)
8. I could go on, but I prefer not to think any more about the sorry state of the US.

Wow - you're a thick one, aren't ya?
It was a rhetorical question to someone else, and besides, I'm not in the practice of country-ranking.

I also got a chuckle out of your notion that being intelligent and articulate disqualifies Obama. Yeah, because having a dumbass in office has worked out so well. I doubt he's ever read "the goddamn constitution", and he certainly hasn't followed it.

Fascism today doesn't tap you on the shoulder and say "hi", genius. It's been a slow creep of infringements over the last six years, and "shutting the hell up" about it is exactly what they'd like you to do.

Have you met quantumushroom? I can see the two of you having a deep, meaningful closeted Republican affair...

In reply to quant's first post:
6. Controlled Mass Media - Not with the internet.
If I may interject, if you peruse http://www.savetheinternet.com/ you will see that in fact several U.S. corporations are trying to control just that. What will and will not be shown to it's customers on the internet. So it may not be that way now, but these corporations sure are trying their best to "fix" that.

Well, although good arguments can be presented on both sides, one thing I extremely disagree with is
"8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - USA is not a theocracy, but was generally founded on Judeo-Christian principles. "Love thy neighbor" is not unique to any one religion. It's the "freedom FROM religion" crowd that has the problem with perceived theocratic rule."
That is extremely not true, The USA is bordering dangerously close to a theocracy, many laws and even the way we perceive and treat certain people depends solely on religion. Take for example, atheists and people of other religions are not treated equal, Christians are favored in anything, this is the reason there has never been an atheist or Jewish president. And on the other side, take for example homosexuality, they do not even have the same rights as other people, as the video gives as an example is that just for admitting to be gay, New Jersey's governor resigned; and not to mention the whole issue on gay marriage.

i'm afraid of americans, i'm afraid of the world, i'm afraid i can't help it, i'm afraid i can't.

Once the government shuts down CNN, MSNBC, and all the other news stations, then you can talk. When they decide to start executing all the Gitmo prisoners instead of releasing them or continuing to detain them, then you can talk. When Bush starts demanding his voice be heard over a loudspeaker in every city and town for a daily prayer, then you can talk.

Then it will be too late.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

"Fascism today doesn't tap you on the shoulder and say "hi", genius. It's been a slow creep of infringements over the last six years, and "shutting the hell up" about it is exactly what they'd like you to do."

Exactly.

The ominous parallels... woe to those who disregard them.

It's an intense debate, at the end of the day America has certainly changed under Bush leadership.

If America really was a facist state, an American would not be able to make this video. The state would suppress all views opposing theirs.

The video's clearly about fascist creep; it's not arguing that America IS a fascist state. Jeez.

Nice try Drachen_Jager, but why bother? Its not like people such as QuantumMushroom try to be idiots or try to be blind to the truth, they just are...

This hit pretty well on all cylinders.

Love my country.
Despise my government.

Theo's dead on, the creeping creepage is what you scream while you can....all for running to the hills and preparing for it in the meantime....

and yes, proud to be here, in America....the American thing is an extra perk, cause' one had respect for moments in the history of the country, when there was some hope and victories.....

and, as always, The empire Never Dies-few folks ever figure this out....P.K Dick, Carl Jung, and other, assorted associates and adepts of the gnostic vibe...tried to point out, the predictable and mystical way of all flesh...

There's the herd, the herders act according to their nature, so does the herd

@BrknPhoenix

14. Fradulent elections. It was an extremely close election, and unless you have evidence it was fradulent, don't just assume that it was and think you made a point.

JD, you forgot to mention the NWA, IHOP, C02, MPAA, HIV, AA, AAA, AT&T, TNT, FUBAR, and of course NAMBLA.

A few points to consider, late in the discussion:
1) The fact that we're having this discussion means that things aren't too bad just yet.
2) Watching the Daily Show reminds me that as long as we're allowed to make fun of and laugh at the president, our country is pretty safe.
3) If you feel strongly about things, take advantage of our current non-facist state and vote in 2008.
4) To say that George Bush is far from our best president ever is not hard to do. To call him a facist is a stretch at best. Lots of talk about the middle east, very little about his work to combat AIDS in Africa. Great president? No. Facist? Hardly.

Dude, please read the thread before commenting. It's only polite.

kind of agreeing with QM on this one... strangely. i think it's because the vid is too over the top and easy to do a QM debunk on.
but ditto the comments about how "liberal" is a stupid word to use if you want any kind of credibility.

Dude, I do read threads before commenting. I just skimmed this one because I was reading a lot of the same stuff and a lot of name calling. Thanks for the tip, though.

@joedirt

Go f-k yourself? Wow, are you 10 years old?

I'm disgusted to be on the same side as some of you people. Despite being a democrat I'm halfway tempted to go to the other side so I can be away from all those with the maturity of a grapefruit. Evil > grapefruit.

Some of you seem to think that if everything isn't your way, uh oh, we're on the road to fascism! Nothing will ever be entirely your way, and crying fascism isn't going to make anyone take you any more seriously. This shit may pass on the internet where such an attitude is more pervasive, but as soon as you go off to any other political area, calling Bush any of the following: Fascist/Nazi/Hitler will make you the first person that gets ignored by both sides.

Think Bush is radical? He's actually pretty typical. But if you do insist he is radical and bringing the country towards fascism, perhaps the answer isn't to be just as radical on the other end.

What? You say, "Me? Radical? Rediculous!" Well, I hate to break it to you, but despite the fact that most people dislike Bush and think he's taking America in the wrong direction, they also don't think we're mere steps away from collapsing into a fascist dictatorship.

If you want to be taken seriously by the real world, rejecting attitudes like this is the first step. If you want to insist on opinions like "Bush is a fascist do u see mah 14 points lol", being taken seriously by the other radicals in the internet world is as far as you're going to get.

By far the majority opinion is moderate, and while you may think being as liberal and in your face as you can be is the way to go about it, all you're doing is pushing the people you need to be courting away. If you want to to inspire change, the way to do it is compromise, not hammering away at the same FUCK BUSH HE'S A FASCIST talking points over and over again, because no one but you and people like you are listening.

@Brkn

I believe you just called Cheney a 10 yr old? He might hunt you down for that.

"If you want to to inspire change, the way to do it is compromise"
Ooookay. You must give Congress like 110% approval. What a party-zombie you are. I'll bet you have your dailykos rss feed reloading every 2 mins.

Every sentient patriotic American should be yelling from the rafter, marching in the streets, if we had horses then riding from village to village. Hang up the lantern(s) in your attics folks. One if tyranny, two if by military coup. Maybe we should all put bumper-stickers on that say "the fascists are coming".

By the way, good luck getting the goo off the Constitution. See, Clinton only got it all over a blue dress. Bush, Cheney, and Fredo have been too busy dry humping something else.

I hope you keep voting to get more Dems elected, cause 2008 will fix things. Yep, 2006 really helped by adding more Dems to Congress. See, if you are having trouble starting a campfire, throwing more wet logs on top doesn't help much. Spineless capitulating cowards and spineless compromisers will get us all marching in the streets, but unfortunately it will be in black boots and parade formation.

Anyone who claims this country isn't headed towards fascism needs to (a) watch this video again, (b) pick up a copy of your 10th grade world civ book and read a little. What do you think precipitated the Nazi rise to power? I'll give you a hint, check the stock market Monday (today) morning.

(But seriously Phoenix, yer doing a heckva job for Bush apologists)

Other than the images, at no point in the video does anyone accuse Bush of being a fascist. Jesus, BrknPhoenix you're like those people who feel the need to insist that America is the greatest country on earth. Assuming that was true, because I think the US is making a mistake now doesn't mean I hate my country. It means that we're losing our way.

I don't see how anyone who loves their country can disagree that we have become a significantly less free nation. AND FOR NO GODDAMN REASON. If one thing was made clear by the 9-11 Report it wasn't that we were attacked by Islamic ninjas who left no trail and attacked in a manner that was completely indefensible given the powers that the government possessed at the time. No, "the system was blinking red" and unfortunately government agencies were not communicating with each other. I see no reason why the PATRIOT ACT was at all necessary to preserve our safety. What was necessary was a reform in the way in which our 21 disparate agencies shared information amongst themselves.

If you don't think the suspension of habeas corpus, the removal of our 4th amendment protections, the limitation on free expression (free speech zones, the events surrounding the RNC in NY, the use of no-fly lists to persecute anti-war protestors in the leadup to the Iraq war) is problematic than you're not paying attention. Yes, we are becoming a more fascist state and it is still stoppable at this point. BUT not if you apologize for the boot on your neck.

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Thursday, August 9th, 2007 12:47am PDT - promote requested by dotdude.

The “promote” brought this to my attention.

I didn't watch the video, but did read the comments. I've read several books that comment on this situation, history in general, and tried to stay informed; therefore, I think the video would be just a waste of time for me.

I am very passionate about maintaining personal freedoms and have seen the legal (note I said legal) inroads into our personal freedoms as Americans. There is a history of personal freedom loses during times of war throughout US history. Those were corrected as the wars ended. What is different now? This is defined as a war without end (since it’s a war on a strategy) and therefore a loss of personal freedoms without end. I strongly oppose that.

I think that people should be aware how countries become fascist to ensure it never happens to their own. Both Hitler and Mussolini were democratically elected. How many people here have studied or even glanced at how they went from democratic elections to a fascist state? Most Americans are woefully ignorant of real history. Mainstream news today never gives historical content. School classes (perhaps some exceptions in college?) teach a muted and sanitized history. This makes it tough for the average citizen to find real information.

If anyone doesn’t believe that they are not powerful people that would like the US to be a fascist state with them in power, please contact me with your paypal information or checkbook ready because I have many things to sell you.

USA, Im just glad I dont live there. Its sad to say, but its a growing consensus worldwide, as a traveler I know. People used to want to live there....but now with government corruption at its highest, and a complacent public. Your country is looking like the most fascist country I can think of and have even been too. Looking in from the outside, it looks like you love trading freedom for protection. I hope you enjoy your protection, soon ... it'll be all you have.

It may not be facism by the 1940 definition, but none will ever be exactly like that again. Just look at all the laws your government implements on a daily basis.. if your country was so great why all the new laws? why all the protection? Why not Freedom?

@quantummushroom.
I like how you picked and choose what evidence the video used to support the points, then dissected that one example instead of looking at the whole issue.

" 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Liberals want foreign invaders (as well as illegal aliens) to automatically be protected by American law. Abu Ghraib was an anomaly, not the norm."

They also talked about, Long prison sentences, general complacency for assassinations and the like. It's funny that you think Abu Ghraid is not the norm. You need to brush up on your history and current events. Your country has more secret prisons in various countries all over the globe than all other countries put together. Your general disdain for human rights is not limited to Abu Ghraid and illegal aliens... all one needs to do is go to a prison to see that (almost 50% of all your prisoners are there for personal addiction) , but thanks for participating.

I think that #9 stands out the most today. FISA anyone?

/does a drive-by SMACK!to his favorite canook.
nice post my man.
ron paul called it "soft fascism".
i agree.
when a government starts to disobey it's own laws and creates laws giving themselves immunity.
when a government has the media as its lapdog and can control the message.
when a government politically controls the judicial branch of justice,and USES it to marginalize political opponents and dissenters.
when a government uses a fearful time to demote civil rights to mere suggestions,all in the name of "national security".
well then....i would say that,while not being a full-fledged "fascist nation",we are heading down a dangerous path with not much path left to change course.
someone here posted the importance of the internet.
i could not agree more.this is the last vestige of free debate and must be protected with fervor.
for those who do not see america's slip towards despotism/fascism.i recommend howard zinn's books.a great historian who does not wear rose colored glases when it comes to american history and foreign policy.another great book is "blowback" by chalmers johnson,former US foreign policy advisor.
till next time..peace.
Enoch.