My two cents? I am as confused as looris on this one. And there does seem to have been a small rash of duplicates getting published even though they were called dupe. If you call a video dead and later find a potential replacement why not suggest it as a replacement instead of posting it as your own. Okay you don't know for certain if it is a dupe, I can see that it would be easy to make a mistake, but if people who have seen the original tell you it is a dupe and you know the other existed out there and could be fixed with your video then you should discard your post. I would.

Seems we really could use a *merge command. What is the purpose of the "deadpool" if we allow this to continue? I could look in the pool find a video that was popular seek out a replacement and the post it for myself. Not cool.

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I think when submitting a new video, it should count deader as being dupes. It would be nice if the member was then allowed to fix the original dead video, and get a star point.

The problem is that not everyone is privileged to used the deadpool. We're open to ideas on this issue.

Since I realize this is a post related to an incident of me posting a video that was flagged dead several days before I posted mine. I was all for replacing the embed code on the original. However even with a gold star that wasn't possible by me or others. So I sent a note to the original submitter letting them know about a fix for the existing link.

I have no problem with taking down my post IF the original can be fixed. However in the meantime, I don't see why a new post that works can't be on the sift. I don't think I should discard a dupe of a dead video, until said video is fixed.

Having said that, I hope the dead video gets fixed. And I'm sure the original submitter will let me know when or if they replace the original. I think we all need time to figure out an etiquette with the new deadpool. Dead videos get a lot more exposure now then they used too. That's going to be cause for a bit of confusion.

Dag, how about this for starters: as was suggested by someone else somewhere, have the video go immediately to the deadpool where it can be fixed by any starred member. You could provide some extra reward if the person calling dead provided the fix?

The problem with having a new post in the meantime is that it may cause disruption of bookmarks and could take away votes that the original should have gotten. Even though the new one may eventually get discarded it will still exist (another issue to tackle).

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I agree, we probably don't need a gap between deading and arrival in the deadpool now. Originally it was to give the old video's owner time to replace- because once in the deadpool, the fixer would assume ownership.

Since we are no longer transfering ownership - it makes sense to deliver the video directly to the deadpoool.

Without having read everyone else's comments on the matter...

Any time a video is submitted when the same video exists on the Sift and is not discarded at the time the new one is posted, it is a duplicate. In fact, even though the video is dead, it will be in the deadpool shortly, then likely fixed.

The new post is a duplicate and therefore must be discarded.

After giving it some thought, I think the 2-day dead rule is okay for a couple of reasons. 1) The submitter may choose to select the video host and specific video (considering size, quality, etc.) of their personal preference. 2) We don't want to flood the deadpool with too many videos. Any users that fix their own videos will prevent more from filling up the deadpool.

Personally, I'm very fearful that the star market may be becoming inflated. Stars shouldn't be passed around like grains of rice. Their value is much greater and they should be treated accordingly. Btjmo.

Agree with Lucky's assessment - I appreciate the chance to fix my own corpses up with life essence, or whatever you want to call it.

New posts are dupes and will be summarily executed.

I find myself swayed by Lucky's arguments.

I agree with Lucky. 2 days isn't that long to wait if the original poster isn't around or isn't inclined to fix their post. I like having the time to fix my own posts before they hit the dead pool if possible. Don't want to see the dead pool get flooded with every dead invocation right away.

I disagree about the 2 day rule. It serves no purpose now.

1) The submitter may choose to select the video host and specific video (considering size, quality, etc.) of their personal preference.

Ownership of the post is not transferred - the submitter can modify their post any time they want. If they find a better replacement, they are always free to use it. I don't see how delaying an immediate fix for 2 days affects that. Putting dead videos into the dead pool immediately does not affect the owner's ability to fix their own post.

2) We don't want to flood the deadpool with too many videos. Any users that fix their own videos will prevent more from filling up the deadpool.

This is inevitable and in fact it's already happening - the dead pool is already up to about 70 posts. Videos are being deaded much faster than they are being fixed. One of several reasons for this is the 1 point/day award for fixing dead videos. Having seen it in practice for a week now, I can confidently say it is exactly not what we want. First, as you suggest Lucky, stars will become much easier to get. Second, videos don't get fixed as quickly, because there is an incentive to wait until it "counts". The answer isn't to slow down the number of fixes, but to award less for each fix. Don't remove the incentive to fix videos, and certainly don't provide a disincentive. I think 1/4 point would be a good balance between easy fixes and really hard ones. (Looris - you were completely right about this.)

Also, it's going to happen eventually no matter what - more and more videos will pile up that don't and won't have replacements.

As for dupes, it's only going to get worse - there was one just published today (I don't know why arvana didn't discard it): http://www.videosift.com/video/Roller-Suit-in-Swiss-Alps

Personally, I'm very fearful that the star market may be becoming inflated. Stars shouldn't be passed around like grains of rice. Their value is much greater and they should be treated accordingly.

Agreed, there is some value to fixing them but I feel almost like I'm stealing to take a star point for something as simple as a quick search. Maybe adjust the value, one for every 3 to 5 or something. Finding a vid someone else points you to isn't as tough as the original find would be so shouldn't be worth the same point.

I'm not sure they'll get easier as time goes on though, dead pool may well flood but that doesn't mean we'll find the fixes. It occurs to me that we're maybe doing the copyright enforcers jobs for them. We find the fixes and they pull them until we run out of replacements. If that's true and it might be given the rate they disappear at we may run into a wall of sorts eventually for the copyright stuff at least.

Discarding should be taking place but let's face it - most people don't want to run around doing that to other videos. There is the potential for unpleasantness there regardless of the need to discard.

How about a *dupe invocation? This doesn't discard it but removes the voting buttons. Everyone has a chance to see these duplicates (new tab?) and with the process being more transparent it's more likely the submitter or a goldie will discard it.

Maybe it would be useful to have a vote on it - if say three or more golds agree it's a dupe of a previously submitted video (dead or not) then it gets auto-discarded.

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Interesting on the *dupe thing - sounds kind of complex though. I think Sifters shouldn't be afraid to discard a dupe. Put a smiley on it soften the blow.

I'm also thinking we should probably have an expirery on the Dead Pool, as it's growing! Maybe if it hasn't been fixed in 2 weeks it gets permanently discarded?

Don't like the *dupe think, it's senseless, it adds complexity where a +discard should do just fine.

I hate discarding other people's vids. I rather just let 'em know and let them discard their own.

Definitely needs to be a limit on dead pool, imho. Some vids will just never find replacements. And if the original was Foxed, a fixed embed may not last long anyway. Some dead videos are just really dead. No reason to keep 'em clogging up the Dead Pool forever.

BTW, I think 10 fixes/star point is reasonable. Incentive to keep the Dead Pool clean with marathon undead sessions and it doesn't promote the less neighborly-minded to wait 24 hours between fixes.

Quick question... if someone receives a star point for fixing a dead video, do they also lose that point if video is ultimately discarded, just like the original poster does? If not, a single video that dies over and over could provide points for several different people.

lol fletch, same thing I noticed here.

about the other issue:
# if in doubt, i +blog it, but if there is no reason to have doubts, a +discard should come again sooner or later, and it's the duty of every sifter to keep the site clean;
# why removing them? and how do you know they are "really dead" instead of simply "it got unnoticed"? no, if the default is showing the most recently dead videos, there's no problem in having "really dead" videos far beyond in the last pages;
# 10 is too much: sure, some fixes are easy, but if you award only 1/10th of points each fix, harder ones will never get fixed (not worth the effort);

a good way of solving this could be awarding more points if the video to be fix is older, but this could bring up more problems (should I fix it now or wait to get more points? horrible)

I think it's reasonable to consider a video "really dead" if there exists two things: some incentive for Sifters to fix Dead Pool denizens, and significant time (I would go longer than two weeks) has elapsed for incensed Sifters to de-dead said dead Dead Pool denizens.

We disagree on the points. I believe low points would encourage neighborly Sifter community behavior with a appreciative pat on the back. It would also eliminate (well... minimize) any issues with points being awarded and retained in the case of re-deaded de-deaded dead Dead Pool denizens. The points are more for good community behavior, rather than credit for a video somebody else found, posted, and got published. "Atta-boys" (and "atta-girls") that eventually lead to a full Star Point.

Clearly, any (fractional) point awarded for fixing a dead video should be taken away if the fix goes dead. I think that is (or should be) a non-issue.

I've been fixing 2 or 3 per night, generally easy fixes, but several of which took quite a bit of time. I figure 1/2 to 1/4 point is fair, based on the amount of time I've spent doing it. I know I wouldn't spend nearly as much time for 1/10 of a point - I'd still fix deads, just not as often and not as many.

As for long dead videos, I agree that at some point they should get discarded. Two weeks, though, is absurdly short. I think a limit on the order of 6 months would be more appropriate.