Thank you for bringing CS Lewis up..because I have been meaning to check out some of his work. I have read the Screwtape letters, but that's about it. Pretty sad, I know. I am definitely going to check out your recommendations.

It's mind boggling to try to perceive something from an eternal perspective..someone told me that he saw all of time like a flower in bloom, from the top down perspective..

Omniscience as knowing the knowable..that's a pretty good way of thinking about it. Perhaps that is where free will comes into play..and as far as hell..just the very basic definition of being spiritually seperated from God forever..that would be the worst torture possible..so the descriptions could be seen from that perspective as metaphorical..interesting stuff

>> ^smooman:
>> ^Ti_Moth:
>> ^shinyblurry:
It was not their lack of knowledge that made them "inferior", it was their faith in God that made them superior. Yet, God gave them the choice didn't He? Your argument here is null and void. He enjoyed a perfect relationship with them but He gave them the choice of knowing anyway. He warned them if they did it they would die. They chose not to trust God and lusted after his power, and then they reaped the consequences, which was seperation from God. It's the same story going on on Earth, right now, in every heart that has turned away from God. What He did, and is still doing, is fair and just. He doesn't coerce your love, but he will let you reap the consequences of the evil that you do, and He even gives you fair warning.

You seem to forget that apparantly your God is all knowing. He knew exactly what Adam and Eve would do, he knew what the serpant would do and he knew what he would do to them and the whole of humanity afterward (Torture a majority of them for eternity). Now maybe as an imperfect mortal I can't understand this strange "love" of his but it seems to me like your god is anything but all loving.

well this all depends really on your view or understanding or omniscience. CS Lewis once described it (and now for a butchering paraphrase) that god is all knowing not in a fortune teller sense but in an observational sense. Meaning that god exists outside of any space and time that we can perceive and as such what we observe as past present and future is observed as all present to god. In this way god knows what im gonna eat for breakfast tomorrow, not because he can see the future, but because my future as well as my present and past, is all present to god.
Consider this: in the story of the flood, god is displeased with his creation to the point that he wants a do-over. Now that language used to describe gods regret is explicit in stating that he was so regretful and displeased with how his creation turned out that he had wished he had not created it in the first place (im searching through my old college notes trying to find the Aramaic words used). That being said, if god is all knowing, in the sense that you describe (the fortune teller sense), why would he create his creating knowing that he would regret it to the point that he wish he hadnt created it in the first place? I would suggest to you that gods omniscience is knowing the knowable (knowing the knowable, i know its a bit vague, i could elaborate if you like)
moving to a different topic, the whole god tortures via hell, again that depends on your view of what hell is. The Great Divorce by CS Lewis would be a good read on the subject as would the theology of annihilationism.
many times the tortuous metaphors of hell described in the bible (gnashing of teeth, eternal flames, a thousand deaths, etc etc) are metaphors describing the pain of eternal seperation from the creator, which to me would be exactly what hell is. THese colorful metaphors arent meant to mean a literal, physical eternal torture but a spiritual one. Put in another way, for those of you that have kids or a dearly loved spouse or whatever, one might poetically describe the separation from them as "torture" but this does not mean the literal sense of the word now does it?
The Great Divorce is a great read on the subject

>> ^smooman:

>> ^Ti_Moth:
>> ^shinyblurry:
It was not their lack of knowledge that made them "inferior", it was their faith in God that made them superior. Yet, God gave them the choice didn't He? Your argument here is null and void. He enjoyed a perfect relationship with them but He gave them the choice of knowing anyway. He warned them if they did it they would die. They chose not to trust God and lusted after his power, and then they reaped the consequences, which was seperation from God. It's the same story going on on Earth, right now, in every heart that has turned away from God. What He did, and is still doing, is fair and just. He doesn't coerce your love, but he will let you reap the consequences of the evil that you do, and He even gives you fair warning.

You seem to forget that apparantly your God is all knowing. He knew exactly what Adam and Eve would do, he knew what the serpant would do and he knew what he would do to them and the whole of humanity afterward (Torture a majority of them for eternity). Now maybe as an imperfect mortal I can't understand this strange "love" of his but it seems to me like your god is anything but all loving.

well this all depends really on your view or understanding or omniscience. CS Lewis once described it (and now for a butchering paraphrase) that god is all knowing not in a fortune teller sense but in an observational sense. Meaning that god exists outside of any space and time that we can perceive and as such what we observe as past present and future is observed as all present to god. In this way god knows what im gonna eat for breakfast tomorrow, not because he can see the future, but because my future as well as my present and past, is all present to god.
moving to a different topic, the whole god tortures via hell, again that depends on your view of what hell is. The Great Divorce by CS Lewis would be a good read on the subject as would the theology of annihilationism.
many times the tortuous metaphors of hell described in the bible (gnashing of teeth, eternal flames, a thousand deaths, etc etc) are metaphors describing the pain of eternal seperation from the creator, which to me would be exactly what hell is. THese colorful metaphors arent meant to mean a literal, physical eternal torture but a spiritual one. Put in another way, for those of you that have kids or a dearly loved spouse or whatever, one might poetically describe the separation from them as "torture" but this does not mean the literal sense of the word now does it?
The Great Divorce is a great read on the subject


I'm not sure that you can just chop and change the meaning of omniscience. If he isn't truly all knowing then he can't be all powerful as with out the knowledge of something how could he affect it and if there is something he can't affect he isn't all powerful. The torture you describe of seperation from the creator, I feel completly seperated from a creator and I live a fairly happy life that in no way could be described as torture but if this spiritual anguish that I may feel in hell is as bad as torture (even if not as bad as physical torture) then the christian god is still a complete arsehole in my books.

>> ^Ti_Moth:

>> ^shinyblurry:
It was not their lack of knowledge that made them "inferior", it was their faith in God that made them superior. Yet, God gave them the choice didn't He? Your argument here is null and void. He enjoyed a perfect relationship with them but He gave them the choice of knowing anyway. He warned them if they did it they would die. They chose not to trust God and lusted after his power, and then they reaped the consequences, which was seperation from God. It's the same story going on on Earth, right now, in every heart that has turned away from God. What He did, and is still doing, is fair and just. He doesn't coerce your love, but he will let you reap the consequences of the evil that you do, and He even gives you fair warning.

You seem to forget that apparantly your God is all knowing. He knew exactly what Adam and Eve would do, he knew what the serpant would do and he knew what he would do to them and the whole of humanity afterward (Torture a majority of them for eternity). Now maybe as an imperfect mortal I can't understand this strange "love" of his but it seems to me like your god is anything but all loving.


well this all depends really on your view or understanding or omniscience. CS Lewis once described it (and now for a butchering paraphrase) that god is all knowing not in a fortune teller sense but in an observational sense. Meaning that god exists outside of any space and time that we can perceive and as such what we observe as past present and future is observed as all present to god. In this way god knows what im gonna eat for breakfast tomorrow, not because he can see the future, but because my future as well as my present and past, is all present to god.

Consider this: in the story of the flood, god is displeased with his creation to the point that he wants a do-over. Now that language used to describe gods regret is explicit in stating that he was so regretful and displeased with how his creation turned out that he had wished he had not created it in the first place (im searching through my old college notes trying to find the Aramaic words used). That being said, if god is all knowing, in the sense that you describe (the fortune teller sense), why would he create his creating knowing that he would regret it to the point that he wish he hadnt created it in the first place? I would suggest to you that gods omniscience is knowing the knowable (knowing the knowable, i know its a bit vague, i could elaborate if you like)

moving to a different topic, the whole god tortures via hell, again that depends on your view of what hell is. The Great Divorce by CS Lewis would be a good read on the subject as would the theology of annihilationism.

many times the tortuous metaphors of hell described in the bible (gnashing of teeth, eternal flames, a thousand deaths, etc etc) are metaphors describing the pain of eternal seperation from the creator, which to me would be exactly what hell is. THese colorful metaphors arent meant to mean a literal, physical eternal torture but a spiritual one. Put in another way, for those of you that have kids or a dearly loved spouse or whatever, one might poetically describe the separation from them as "torture" but this does not mean the literal sense of the word now does it?

The Great Divorce is a great read on the subject

Do you wear a cologne called attitude? You could bottle the sneer dripping from your words and sell it for a tidy sum. Though it doesn't surprise me that you're actually advocating for Satan in the story, it was a lie no matter how narrow, obtuse, and willfully ignorant your interpertation is. They did die, that makes it a lie. God told them the truth about it.

It was not their lack of knowledge that made them "inferior", it was their faith in God that made them superior. Yet, God gave them the choice didn't He? Your argument here is null and void. He enjoyed a perfect relationship with them but He gave them the choice of knowing anyway. He warned them if they did it they would die. They chose not to trust God and lusted after his power, and then they reaped the consequences, which was seperation from God. It's the same story going on on Earth, right now, in every heart that has turned away from God. What He did, and is still doing, is fair and just. He doesn't coerce your love, but he will let you reap the consequences of the evil that you do, and He even gives you fair warning.

What's absurd is your nasty and sarcastic attitude. It's just pure arrogance; have you ever read the bible? You're here railing against something you have no understanding of. You're condescending to me about my intellect when even a child has a more cohesive understanding here than you do. Btw, regarding the ridiculous "blasphemy challenge"

John 6;39

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

As far as whether the Earth is old or young, I don't know. It isn't clear. I've seen models where the geology of the planet could be explained by a young Earth, and ones that dispute it. I don't really care, to tell you the truth. It makes no difference to me whether the Earth is young or old. Science hasn't proved it either way, and the bible isn't exactly clear on it, so there isn't a way for me to say definitively. To me the jury is out and it doesn't look like it will be back anytime soon. What is important to me is a relationship with Jesus Christ, not how old His creation is.

>> ^hpqp:
>> ^shinyblurry:
God let them know it was wrong to disobey Him by outlining the consequences if they did. They chose to believe the lie instead, and lusted after Gods power. Thus they sinned and became spiritually seperated from God. The perfect cannot be joined with the imperfect.
The whole point of our lives is to love God (and eachother) and live with Him forever in paradise. That's why He created Adam and Eve in the first place. Man sinned and fell, became seperated from God, and became mortal and lost their place with God.
Your argument is that it is immoral. Well how can you judge God? No sinner could and I include myself in that. How could an immoral being judge a moral one? It's only your excuse for not doing what He told us to do. God is Holy, but you have believed the lie that He isn't. You are choosing death over life, because that is all sin is. The soul that sins is the soul that dies, but Gods gift is eternal life.
In regard to the unforgivable sin, the reason it is unforgivable is because when you become a Christian you receive Gods Spirit. His Spirit is what transforms us, makes us a new creation. If you reject His Spirit, you cannot be transformed, so therefore you cannot be forgiven.
Everyone who has taken the so-called blasphemy challenge just to please their inner demons of being completely dead to Christ are mistaken. None of them have done anything unforgivable and can all still be saved.

I was going to suggest reading Byron's "Cain: A Mystery", which develops the immorality of original sin in a much more sophisticated and poetic fashion, but seeing that you did not even get the point of the nonstampcollector video I linked (if you even watched it), Byron would be way over your head.
You say: "God let them know it was wrong to disobey Him by outlining the consequences if they did."
Have you even read the Bible? God is the one who lies, saying "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen.2:7); the serpent, OTOH, tells the truth (Gen. 3:4-7, italics mine):
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, [...]
It is the lack of knowledge that makes the fabled first humans inferior to (and dependant upon) their father-figure creator. Religion relies on ignorance, obedience and blind faith in authority, i.e. everything that demarcates a dependent infant from an independent adult.
You use a lot of religious terms as if they actually meant something. Please define these if you want your argumentation to be the least bit intelligible:
God; sin; moral (in relation to "God"), God's spirit.

Since you did not address the incest remark while continuing to speak of Adam and Eve as if they really existed, I'll assume that you really do think we all descend from only two humans, which is totally absurd. Do you also think the Earth is only 6000 years old? Perhaps the Sun revolves around it (Eccl.1:5)? And is it a flat disc (Is.40:22)?
(Btw, most of those who took the "blasphemy challenge" grew up Christian, so no, imaginary Sky-Daddy cannot forgive them)

>> ^shinyblurry:

God let them know it was wrong to disobey Him by outlining the consequences if they did. They chose to believe the lie instead, and lusted after Gods power. Thus they sinned and became spiritually seperated from God. The perfect cannot be joined with the imperfect.
The whole point of our lives is to love God (and eachother) and live with Him forever in paradise. That's why He created Adam and Eve in the first place. Man sinned and fell, became seperated from God, and became mortal and lost their place with God.
Your argument is that it is immoral. Well how can you judge God? No sinner could and I include myself in that. How could an immoral being judge a moral one? It's only your excuse for not doing what He told us to do. God is Holy, but you have believed the lie that He isn't. You are choosing death over life, because that is all sin is. The soul that sins is the soul that dies, but Gods gift is eternal life.
In regard to the unforgivable sin, the reason it is unforgivable is because when you become a Christian you receive Gods Spirit. His Spirit is what transforms us, makes us a new creation. If you reject His Spirit, you cannot be transformed, so therefore you cannot be forgiven.
Everyone who has taken the so-called blasphemy challenge just to please their inner demons of being completely dead to Christ are mistaken. None of them have done anything unforgivable and can all still be saved.


I was going to suggest reading Byron's "Cain: A Mystery", which develops the immorality of original sin in a much more sophisticated and poetic fashion, but seeing that you did not even get the point of the nonstampcollector video I linked (if you even watched it), Byron would be way over your head.


You say: "God let them know it was wrong to disobey Him by outlining the consequences if they did."

Have you even read the Bible? God is the one who lies, saying "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen.2:7); the serpent, OTOH, tells the truth (Gen. 3:4-7, italics mine):

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, [...]

It is the lack of knowledge that makes the fabled first humans inferior to (and dependant upon) their father-figure creator. Religion relies on ignorance, obedience and blind faith in authority, i.e. everything that demarcates a dependent infant from an independent adult.


You use a lot of religious terms as if they actually meant something. Please define these if you want your argumentation to be the least bit intelligible:

God; sin; moral (in relation to "God"), God's spirit.

* * *

Since you did not address the incest remark while continuing to speak of Adam and Eve as if they really existed, I'll assume that you really do think we all descend from only two humans, which is totally absurd. Do you also think the Earth is only 6000 years old? Perhaps the Sun revolves around it (Eccl.1:5)? And is it a flat disc (Is.40:22)?


(Btw, most of those who took the "blasphemy challenge" grew up Christian, so no, imaginary Sky-Daddy cannot forgive them)

I would not classify him bill hicks or gorge Carlin as a comedian , sometimes they do say stuff for comedic effect , maby 3% of the time ( unless its a specific routine ) but most the time what they do is just say the truth and I don't just mean in an ironic comedic way , or in a clever with language , or clever poetic way. they littoraly just say how things are.

I wouldn't Evan classify it as DRY comedy or humor because its not really evan that.

I don't think its a bad thing though you would hope that there were more people that existed and picked out the bullshit and clearly communicated it to others, I just think the label comedian dose not do them justice.

I have found that many of my animations deal with death as a theme. The sift has very few 'sad' channels, and many of our videos have the subject of death, the macabre, and other final endings in them - including music about loss of life (death metal works too), and nature 'circle of life' videos.

'Dark' is not enough to classify a lot of my posts, and death seemed to be the largest theme in my collection.
I'm definitely not looking to start posting glaringly obnoxious killing spree videos, as I would not allow those either. I thought that since there is so much life here, we should have the opposite dark, poetically deathly side.
(my attempt at a definition, btw.)

>> ^Jinx:


Because riding a horse is 100% natural. Nothing man made about that.
Good point dude.
>> ^spoco2:


That the hell have those two sentences got to do with each other?
Music has no place in nature... Just a wanky, stupid comment that doesn't at all appreciate how animals make music too through their calls and in some cases using 'instruments' also.
Dick.
A. Nothing - Two different sentences.
B. Animals don't make music. Poetically maybe, but nothing close to what we commonly refer to as music. They don't have our capacity to appreciate composition, they just insticually respond to certain sounds.
C. Dick? All I meant to say is that I hate douche bags that need to have a soundtrack to nature. STFU and listen. You don't need to synthesize or augment nature.
>> ^Gallowflak:


That's funny. Art, literature, music, poetry, carpentry and all other manifestations of human creativity... If there were a god, these are the things to which I would point in order to justify our species.
I do see your point, but it's predicated on the need to justify.

Is he that much crazier than Mel Gibson? I don't know how to describe it but Hollywood just has a way with people. In the current fashion of Hollywood famous actors are losing their will to be planted to the Earth. Famous actors that seemed to have kept their cool for a long while. It's like a god damn epidemic... except Sheen never found God... he laughs in it's face. But, it's like he thinks he can channel Burroughs while he drinks shots and bangs rocks. Hey man, you're just not that sort of person. FIGURE IT OUT. You are not poetic or interesting you just have money and a problem.

>> ^BicycleRepairMan:

I'm sorry, but I cant buy into this whole Sheen meme,it's become pretty obvious that the guy has gone off the deep end. He has some serious mental issues, and I dont think its fair to him, and certainly not to his kids and family to play into it like this. If the interviews didnt convince you, his new "project" certainly will: http://www.ustream.tv/charliesheen

"Every 3rd should walk in darkness."

Haha. Scripture in a nutshell. Idiocy in such poetic language.

I find him poetic.

I would want something exciting. I know Black Hawk Down is non-fiction and has the stigma of being an "America, F-yeah!!!"-war-book, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a legitimately awesome book. I just read War of the Worlds for the first time and that was pretty awesome. My dad is 62 and just had a great time reading Generation Kill. Of course, every time I get bored I can read Ender's Game. I don't know, I can see that you're going for something poetic and relaxing. Maybe... Sometimes a Great Notion? I don't know. Now that I'm looking, a lot of my favorite book's are non-fiction.

>> ^blankfist:
This should kick up some cognitive dissonance in my Democrat friends: 1. they're against State's rights because their party told them so, yet 2. their monolithic Federal government is threatening to lock up anyone who follows the democratically created State law (provided it passes). Oh the poetic justice.
quality Sift.


Democrat, Republican, Noonian, none of that is what matters. Either legalise weed or criminalise alcohol, either way I'll be happy.

This should kick up some cognitive dissonance in my Democrat friends: 1. they're against State's rights because their party told them so, yet 2. their monolithic Federal government is threatening to lock up anyone who follows the democratically created State law (provided it passes). Oh the poetic justice.

*quality Sift.

Reminds me of... not is ... it shares a general concept but not the motivation to create obediance.

Here, the language takes away the context of human idioms, emotion, and cultural norms embedded in the words replacing it with dry descriptions and simplified adverbs. e.g. Lips, eyes, smile, waiter, food, drink, menus, mirrors, tears, man, woman. Smiling or crying means something. Lip uplifting or dripping salt liquid is an empty description.

Living with such a language would limit the ability to think and behave emotively as a human... there just wouldn't be a word for it any more.>> ^poolcleaner:

>> ^raverman:
Awesome Post! Steampunk style poetry... reminds me of Orwellian "Newspeak".

It's more like the opposite of Newspeak. Newspeak was a parred down vocabulary, simplifying sentence structure, omitting alternative words, and emphasizing simplistic concatenations such as "doublethink", as well as shortened concatenations such as "minitrue" (Ministry of Truth). It's also important to note that in order to truly speak and understand Newspeak you must have a specific understanding of each word, for no single word is intended to be used in any other way than it's original meaning, eliminating poetics.
This video, on the other hand, is a string of modern expressions filled with stiff latinate words for comedic (and poetic) effect. There are too many thoughts associated with each word to be even remotely considered for ingsoc's Oceania.