David Attenborough on how to save the planet

Sir David Attenborough explains how humans can take charge of our future and save our planet. -yt
newtboysays...

"In the next few decades"?! More like "a few decades ago".
Perhaps if we had started population control in the 80's with the goal of cutting global population in half by 2000 AND did the rest of what he suggests we might have a chance...we did not.

By the time we understood there was a problem there were less than a few decades left to solve it...that was around 40 years ago, and we've done everything possible to accelerate the damage we do on every front since then.

Ocean acidification is happening today, it's getting worse, it's slow to react to change so will continue to get worse even if humans disappeared tomorrow, it has built in feedback loops that have been triggered like melting methanehydrates and sequestered CO2 that are being released faster every single day, and we are increasing the man made causes every year. There is a point where it reaches critical acidification, the point where diatoms can't form their skeletons, and then the entire ocean system dies. That's far worse than the apocalypse it sounds like, not just because 50-60% of our oxygen comes from the ocean, but also because the rotting biomass creates huge amounts of not just more methane, compounding the greenhouse problem and further acidifying the oceans, but also immense amounts of hydrogen sulfide, which spread as huge poisonous clouds around the globe.
We are on our way to a man made Permian extinction, when >95% of all species went extinct and near 99% of all biomass was lost. We will not survive it as a species....and we don't deserve to.

BSRsays...

George Carlin was right. The Earth WILL take care of itself.

GO EARTH! GO EARTH! IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY!


newtboysaid:

"In the next few decades"?! More like "a few decades ago".
Perhaps if we had started population control in the 80's with the goal of cutting global population in half by 2000 AND did the rest of what he suggests we might have a chance...we did not.

By the time we understood there was a problem there were less than a few decades left to solve it...that was around 40 years ago, and we've done everything possible to accelerate the damage we do on every front since then.

Ocean acidification is happening today, it's getting worse, it's slow to react to change so will continue to get worse even if humans disappeared tomorrow, it has built in feedback loops that have been triggered like melting methanehydrates and sequestered CO2 that are being released faster every single day, and we are increasing the man made causes every year. There is a point where it reaches critical acidification, the point where diatoms can't form their skeletons, and then the entire ocean system dies. That's far worse than the apocalypse it sounds like, not just because 50-60% of our oxygen comes from the ocean, but also because the rotting biomass creates huge amounts of not just more methane, compounding the greenhouse problem and further acidifying the oceans, but also immense amounts of hydrogen sulfide, which spread as huge poisonous clouds around the globe.
We are on our way to a man made Permian extinction, when >95% of all species went extinct and near 99% of all biomass was lost. We will not survive it as a species....and we don't deserve to.

Spacedog79says...

Nuclear energy is the only way we can do it, we can run the planet forever and do things cleanly and more densely to leave more of our planet for wildlife.

The trouble is almost everything we hold as common wisdom about it is completely wrong, using breeder reactors have enough uranium to run the planet forever leaving almost no waste and removing the possibility of big accidents which actually aren't as harmful as commonly believed anyway.

We have thorium too, and many designs of each that can do the job. In fact we have a wealth of of options, but also a decades old and highly effective PR campaign from the fossil fuel industry to convince us otherwise.

newtboysays...

I have always contended that the issue/problem is not a technical one, we've had the technology to stop polluting the atmosphere since before I was born, it's the will of humanity to address the problem before it's too late that's the insurmountable issue.

Spacedog79said:

Nuclear energy is the only way we can do it, we can run the planet forever and do things cleanly and more densely to leave more of our planet for wildlife.

The trouble is almost everything we hold as common wisdom about it is completely wrong, using breeder reactors have enough uranium to run the planet forever leaving almost no waste and removing the possibility of big accidents which actually aren't as harmful as commonly believed anyway.

We have thorium too, and many designs of each that can do the job. In fact we have a wealth of of options, but also a decades old and highly effective PR campaign from the fossil fuel industry to convince us otherwise.

cosmovitellisays...

Unfortunately in an individualistic capitalist system the guy who's feeding his family by pouring shit in the river will fight you tooth and nail irrespective of what it means for the planet. Every other asshole is doing it why should he starve? This is why the more socially minded countries are the ones who can control themselves, as everyone feels they have a stake in it and they know they won't starve.. unfortunately the big rich countries are by definition plunderers running on greed and desperation.

newtboysaid:

I have always contended that the issue/problem is not a technical one, we've had the technology to stop polluting the atmosphere since before I was born, it's the will of humanity to address the problem before it's too late that's the insurmountable issue.

vilsays...

Dont blame "capitalism", blame humans, civilisation. Some countries, communities, families are able to create institutions and rules that span generations and centuries without destroying their livelihoods. Call it capitalism if you must, but the only way for humans to survive it is if they are allowed to make meaningful decisions and shoulder the responsibility for those decisions.

I lived in a "communist" country and I can inform you that shit was removed from rivers, sulfur from power station smoke and lead from car exhaust gasses only after it reverted to a form of constitutional democratic individualistic "capitalism".

All it takes is some basic rules about shit and rivers and a will either free, or imposed by institutions, to abide.

Some big rich countries have good rules and institutions, some dont. Most poor countries dont and that is a real problem. If you cant afford to put shit anywhere else it has to go in the river.

cosmovitellisaid:

Unfortunately in an individualistic capitalist system the guy who's feeding his family by pouring shit in the river will fight you tooth and nail irrespective of what it means for the planet. Every other asshole is doing it why should he starve? This is why the more socially minded countries are the ones who can control themselves, as everyone feels they have a stake in it and they know they won't starve.. unfortunately the big rich countries are by definition plunderers running on greed and desperation.

cosmovitellisays...

Yes agreed, extreme poverty is equally damaging when combined with industry, but bear in mind its been the giant corporations dropping poison on poor villages not the villagers themselves.. and the basic rules for much of the world are decided ultimately by US senators who are for sale to business for embarassingly low cost.

vilsaid:

Dont blame "capitalism", blame humans, civilisation. Some countries, communities, families are able to create institutions and rules that span generations and centuries without destroying their livelihoods. Call it capitalism if you must, but the only way for humans to survive it is if they are allowed to make meaningful decisions and shoulder the responsibility for those decisions.

I lived in a "communist" country and I can inform you that shit was removed from rivers, sulfur from power station smoke and lead from car exhaust gasses only after it reverted to a form of constitutional democratic individualistic "capitalism".

All it takes is some basic rules about shit and rivers and a will either free, or imposed by institutions, to abide.

Some big rich countries have good rules and institutions, some dont. Most poor countries dont and that is a real problem. If you cant afford to put shit anywhere else it has to go in the river.

eoesays...

1. Even though I definitively know the world is beyond fucked at this point, I still think the scientists are not doing themselves any favours by making these "probably" scenarios rather than almost definite ones. As said, even though in some ways I'm looking forward to when the shit starts hitting the fan, I've lost faith in knowing when it'll actually start happening. It seems like every other week I'm told that "soon it'll really start to go all to shit". And it never really does, especially for 1st world countries.

2. Great Filter, Humanity. Humanity, Great Filter. Nice to meet you.

3. I'm beginning to want to start a pot of which terrible thing will happen first to 1st world countries (sadly, the beginning will be poor countries getting fucked and 1st world countries complaining that it now costs $30 for a single banana). Super bugs and catastrophic pandemics (maybe measles!)? Climate change? Nuclear war? Massive migrations of refugees who can't live where they are due to climate change or war? Water shortages? Wealth inequality that will implode on itself? There are so many terrible things on the precipice of happening that I don't even know what I'd bet on, honestly.

newtboysays...

All these except nuclear war are happening now, and effecting first world countries too.
Food shortages, check.
Super bugs, check.
Climate change, check checkity check.
Massive migrations due to effects of climate change, double check.
Water shortages, check....ask a Californian.
Wealth inequality causing civil unrest, check.

Because we aren't living in Bartertown yet is no excuse to ignore reality. These things are currently happening around the globe, in third AND first world nations.
Here's one small example getting very little airtime....
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/10/five-pacific-islands-lost-rising-seas-climate-change

eoesaid:

3. I'm beginning to want to start a pot of which terrible thing will happen first to 1st world countries (sadly, the beginning will be poor countries getting fucked and 1st world countries complaining that it now costs $30 for a single banana). Super bugs and catastrophic pandemics (maybe measles!)? Climate change? Nuclear war? Massive migrations of refugees who can't live where they are due to climate change or war? Water shortages? Wealth inequality that will implode on itself? There are so many terrible things on the precipice of happening that I don't even know what I'd bet on, honestly.

eoesays...

Aside: TIL I've only seen the new Mad Max.

Oh, I know. I'm not waiting for Bartertown, per se. I'm waiting until, say in the case of inequality causing civil unrest, rich people getting strung up in public by huge mobs.

You know, stuff that happens in movies but is coming to a city near you. Literally.

newtboysaid:

All these except nuclear war are happening now, and effecting first world countries too.
Food shortages, check.
Super bugs, check.
Climate change, check checkity check.
Massive migrations due to effects of climate change, double check.
Water shortages, check....ask a Californian.
Wealth inequality causing civil unrest, check.

Because we aren't living in Bartertown yet is no excuse to ignore reality. These things are currently happening around the globe, in third AND first world nations.
Here's one small example getting very little airtime....
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/10/five-pacific-islands-lost-rising-seas-climate-change

newtboysays...

Life's not the movies.
In real life, the rich have police and private security, secure buildings and walled off communities to make sure that doesn't happen.
What you do see is a total separation. The rich and the poor rarely exist in the same space, and on those rare occasions when they do, the rich protect themselves in ways the poor don't even consider....like bullet and knife proof clothing, body guards, armored cars, etc.
Put 5 billionaires in East Oakland or Compton at night without cell phones or guards, I think you'll see the lynching you're looking for.

For it to become the norm, maybe wait 10-20 years....less if there's another drought in places like California where we grow most of what we feed the nation.

It's like a frog in the pot....if you were to time travel from 1950, you would be horrified at the current state of civilization and the planet, because it's a slow change, people forget and ignore how bad it really is. The pot doesn't need to be boiling for the frog to get cooked.

eoesaid:

Aside: TIL I've only seen the new Mad Max.

Oh, I know. I'm not waiting for Bartertown, per se. I'm waiting until, say in the case of inequality causing civil unrest, rich people getting strung up in public by huge mobs.

You know, stuff that happens in movies but is coming to a city near you. Literally.

bobknight33jokingly says...

Abort all those without Medical, Engineering or Science degrees. And allow all those under 20 to live.

This would clear out the weeds and leave a remnant of smart people to engineer the way to the future.

I first thought if we allow those with IQ above 120 but that would include politicians, lawyers and other useless bright people.

Mystic95Zsays...

Well if we went with the IQ thing you proposed Trump would certainly be snuffed out... He's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is...

bobknight33said:

Abort all those without Medical, Engineering or Science degrees. And allow all those under 20 to live.

This would clear out the weeds and leave a remnant of smart people to engineer the way to the future.

I first thought if we allow those with IQ above 120 but that would include politicians, lawyers and other useless bright people.

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