But.....Bcglorf said: Capitalism (or many unrelated civic freedoms) made science and progress possible. The implication is that without capitalism, science and progress are impossible.
Edit: my mistake, vil said that, not bcglorf.

Also, the video is about contradicting that exact contention.

No they aren't, because America isn't just "an economy based on capitalism", which you yourself pointed out. They all come from innovations in systems and inventions created through American socialism.

Again, pre '68, before America went the socialist route to advance computer sciences, not after. Yes, after we used a combination of socialism and capitalism, we were more successful. That's my point.

China is working on 6g, and nearly ready with 5g. America isn't. That cannot be simply because China stole our advancements since they're ahead of us. They also, as you've admitted, developed better (cheaper/faster) manufacturing methods both because of technological advancements and few or no regulations (which have caused them horrendous issues). Funny enough, removing the regulations for more profit at the expense of the workers/environment is capitalistic, not socialist.

Their 5G is better because it's 1)almost ready to deploy and 2) cheaper. Ours isn't ready for prime time yet, and has used billions in public funds to get where it is. The FCC also proposed a $20 billion fund to expand broadband (5g)....that's not capitalism.

Ahhh, switching topics, eh? I thought the topic is capitalism vs socialism as it relates to invention, not fascism. I'm not going to bite.

Ok, personal enrichment is one of many incentives that drive invention, but invention happens without that incentive daily.

Once again, necessity is the mother of invention, not capitalism or profit.

You miss the point if you claim he contradicts that conclusion, because the systems invented that the examples require were ALL publicly funded. Without the socialist inventions, there would be no capitalistic innovations. No internet=no world wide web. No WiFi means no WiFi. No displays=no mobile computers/phones. No access to phone lines=no data transfers, so no internet, www, etc.

If his numbers are correct, 72% of research spending is public funding, not private. Nuff said.

The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back
The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back

So the FCC won't let me be
They want to stack the deck for the ISPs
but we've got a couple of tricks up our sleeves
It's far too important to leave to police
it could lead to the streets
a breach of the peace
and even decrease our freedom of speech
there's never been a bigger reason to read up
and see what's agreed 'cause of greed for the green and deceit
The greener the leaf, the sweeter the tree
the quicker they'll chop it down and leave nothing but tree stumps; debris
the damage is done, no refund received
see, the thing about net neutrality
is unless you get huge salaries
? the paramedic won't rescue casualties
' til they've seen to the rich next dude's allergies
they'll prioritise cash over content
wanna send one bit? That's one cent
What nonsense, man it's scaring me
a planet of plenty's selling scarcity
Innovation paved the way
Now invaders are paying to take it away
but they ain't gonna make it today
! Letting that happen's a major mistake
If Lessig was rapping he'd tell you the same
LETTING THAT HAPPEN'S A MAJOR MISTAKE
Tim Berners Lee baked us a cake
and they've taken the cherry.. AND THE CAKE
discrimination is happening today
to blacks and to gays and to packets of data
though ethically they're exactly the same
so Oi, we're not gonna stand 4 it m8

U WOT?
THE FOK U SAYIN BRUV?
U WOT M8??????
! THE FOK U SAYIN BRUV
U WOT?
FAK OFF U ARSEHOLE!

The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back
The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back

I'm from the place John Oliver came from
but no matter where you live you should be singing the same song
at long last, I'm putting Comcast on blast
'cause they never learn their lesson like they're in the wrong class
well I'm the professor and I'm setting you with one task
Get them knocked back like a shot glass
Straight in front of me's a cable company
The way they're behaving's unbelievable
Comcast is in league with the devil
and it's pissing me off, I'm not even American
! Take a peek, see from the evidence
Netflix had to pay a fee to get better links
it's a shakedown, communication breakdown
There's a bully in the playground
I had enough of that at school, won't lay down
lay a finger on me, you'll be laid out
You'll be laid out
You'll be laid ou
You'll be laid out
You'll be laid out
lay a finger on me, you'll be laid out

The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back
The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back

Taking it back, we're taking it back
We're taking it, we're taking back

I don't necessarily disagree with you. My opinions, while oft contrarian, are really just open ended processes without judgement or declaration. They are hardly even opinions, as I almost always simultaneously believe and hold dear multiple conflicting ideas about particular subjects. An enlightened doublethink as it were. Everything is a theory worth pondering. Thanks Socrates. Thanks for making me not know anything.

Now while tenure certainly holds clout, it can also blind us to the moments in time which were shorter but sweeter than any of the fine tuned complexities of empire. The Internet as we know it, with youtube and Facebook, for example, may be the fixture but I'll always think kindly upon those early 90s, when it was the awkward but mysterious world wide web.

So, cool, yay for fixtures, but I'm a founders man, not a member of the club after its maturity. The Thomas Paine -- Cool, the revolution is over, now fuck yo couch. Where's the next one?

Other examples where the fixture isn't necessarily the only method to decide value by: Van Halen's prolific career versus that first, highly exceptional, fast and heavy album. Or the short but sweet years Ronnie James Dio or Glenn Huges sang for Black Sabbath -- Ozzy is the fixture, but those short moments of time where something strange and magical was created with other diverse geniuses, prior to or after the bread winners, those are the moments of fascination.

I love Jon Stewart but this ain't no thang. My interest was already piqued and held years ago, before him. He's great though and far better than a single television show.

Free market doesn't come into it. The internet itself is not a free market invention. It is essentially a public service that we allow contractors (the ISPs) to maintain in the same way that building companies maintain roads.

The internet itself (i.e. the physical network and the IP layer) grew out of DARPANet; a US government-funded defence initiative and the world wide web (the HTTP layer, HTML, etc) came from CERN; an EU multi-state research project.

The point is that the infrastructure itself was not created by the cable companies, they merely built on it. And they have no more right to decide to charge for different data than a road maintenance company does to charge different freight companies different rates.

"If you had found a very flexible licensing model, in which the burden for the innovation of the world wide web had been shared across the whole user community in a very fair and reasonable manner, with without a modest contribution for everyone for this wonderful innovation, it would have enabled enormous investment in turn in further basic research."

Well that wasn't too hard.

It's not surprising when you consider that: five companies produce 80 percent of the U.S. media, the best-selling magazine is People, and advertising revenue plummeted after the invention of the World Wide Web.

*controversy

So it's been two years. I hope everyone is doing well. A little older, a little wiser? Better, faster, stronger, smarter?

It looks like @NetRunner and @dystopianfuturetoday are still up to their old haunts. Learn anything in the last two years? History impart any lessons? A lot has happened since then. War, recession, inflation, destruction, pollution, the devaluing of the dollar.

Maybe meet up in another two years to see if anything more has changed? That is, if it is even possible. By then, we may have already lost net neutrality and the world wide web will a corporatized splash screen. "Choose your website from the following options." Worse yet, this site could be bought out by DynCorp and transformed into another corporate puppet ala Digg.com.

That is, if any of us even have jobs or savings to pay the internet bill. What with the massive inflation from the multi-trillion dollar "bailouts," handouts, QE3, QE4, QE5 etc. Ever pay attention to your supermarket bill over the years? What will the dollar be worth in two years if it has already decreased in value by upwards of 50% in the last few years? How about employment after the looming double-dip, recession, or second great depression. How many of the posters here will even have jobs anymore?

One thing is for certain, there is nothing special about American labor. China is in the lead in education, America is barely in the top 20. The average salary in America is somewhere in the $40,000 range. In China, less than $7000. I hope you've enjoyed the run while it lasted. Be prepared to swallow your pride along with your massive pay-cut as you realize the only thing sustaining this country is reckless consumerism. What do they tell you every Black Friday? Spend, Spend, Spend? Buy what you can't afford so you can be paid what you don't deserve. Nothing exists in nature "above unity," not even the American dream.

Forget the economy, what will our government be like in 2 years? Already, we sell little boys to afghan leaders and our presidential candidates threaten journalists with murder. Perhaps worse is all of our presidential candidates are identical. "Do you want the red or blue pill? They both taste the same." We torture our own citizens with solitary confinement for 6 months without trail. We've killed over 1 million civilians in Iraq, 15% of the way to our own holocaust. Corporations lay waste to our environment with no consequence. When they commit fraud, we give them billion dollar bonuses instead of criminal charges.

The internet is the primary source of dissent and "free thought" in the modern era. Two things diametrically opposed to corporate and governmental dictatorship. You forget because your mind doesn't think on large time scales, but the internet is just a baby. How long has it really been around, 20 years? That's not even old enough to drink alcohol. You've already seen what governments can do to the internet in China. You've already seen what corporations can do to the internet in Canada. How long before that becomes the norm and not the exception? You take it for granted what you have, then they turn your head while they steal it piece-by-piece. How often did you turn your head, when it wasn't yours they took?

"They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

Yeah, things have been going quite well "as is." Keep you finger's crossed for the next new political "savior" and I'll see you in another 2 years...maybe.

One remembers a time when the World Wide Web was supposed to work this way...

What you talkin about Willis? The full version is all over the www.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPVQHNSGt0k
>> ^poolcleaner:

The full version isn't up anywhere else on the world wide web? This version of the video doesn't show her smashing through the window. I miss my violence. :"(


oops! I get it, you're questioning why the full version isn't sifted instead of this lame newscast

The full version isn't up anywhere else on the world wide web? This version of the video doesn't show her smashing through the window. I miss my violence. :"(

>> ^dag:

As a singer, he makes a great late night talk show host.
This stream is throttled to the point of unwatchability for overseas viewers. when I log into the VPN service it works perfectly. That's lame, and yet increasingly common. MSNBC has started doing this too.


Wow, really? That's lovely... WORLD wide web my arse.

Now let's see - Deltron Z
Art avenger, let's start the adventure
Hit ya with nerve gas, absurd blasts
Crashin space craft, I'm bio-enhanced
Hiero advanced series, monstrous evolution
Headed, tooth and nail, scoop the trail
Super-sleuth, a new race
Mad creator, savage nature
World Wide Web, the ebb and flow
Light years from watchful eyes while my thoughts provide
objectives to ostracize the pompous prophecies
Underground societies are hard to lead
Asteroid surfing, castor-oil burping
The darkest side of humanity animated
The grand awakening, plan to take it in
I demand your patronage, mobilize my battletanks
With clusters small, NTR's to empty Mars
Many MC's cruise low earth orbit
Easier for me to use my search warrant
Drift by a star, absorb it, and store it
Leave tourists pourous, my galaxy's gorgeous
Quantum jump - I'm right at your doorstep

Now I catch more wreck with fast ignition
My last decision, pulse amplification
Terror with napalm, I want y'all to stay calm
Alien annihilation, I stay armed to the grill piece and kill beef
20 percent matter, 30 percent is energy
Assimilating to become a living being
Evaporative radiation fades your station
I get high as aviation

I rise like helium, you're falling rapidly
Trapped in apathy, while I track your speed
I'm what you call a legend, dominance with armageddon
Gives me a warm reception
Verbal war with weapons, installation
Blowin the star dust, distance twelve parsecs
Enthuse your phalanx with my literary talents
Just a bit of balance, rip the silence
in space, all-star systems are our victims
Atomics, anonymous with ominous
implications of information, or information, and entertainment
Cyber-tech dialect, you gotta earn my respect
I'm like Gamera to amateurs, hit em with a cannonball
And in all this confusion
The fusion of music and mind precipitates translucent illusions
Search the ruins with Automator
Hit the walls with a carbonator
Hit-or-missiles, just regenerate
The sonic soldiers allow us to demonstrate
Emergency dispatch, skyscrapers ripped back
from the impact, their flow is mismatched
My style's protected by heat shields and ceramics
Don't panic, I landed on planet Mercury
Gave it atmosphere, set up my headquarters
I'll never get captured here
Rap your tear clap your ear with Soulsonic Mantronik phonics
Turn your brain to an omelette
I'll hold a comet in bondage, with my dominance
Take a space shuttle to escape trouble
Bounce through the Milky Way
Not many MC's feel this way

>> ^direpickle:
>> ^zomgunicorns:
so apart from answering some physics questions (according to the Wiki entry on the LHC), is there some end reason why they are doing this? Is there something they can use from the results to benefit mankind or are they just hoping to blow up the universe?

There is unlikely to be any direct benefit to mankind from the LHC aside from increasing our knowledge of the fundamental laws of the universe. I did see an interview with one guy from CERN claiming it could help us develop teleportation-type technology, but I think he was just trying to get the interviewer to care.
High-energy physics does tend to push the technology envelope, though, which often forces advancements that are useful in other industries. The world wide web was born at CERN.


Goddamn realists. What do any of the ventures of mankind do to further our goals and what are our goals? To entertain and to be entertained. If I want to live longer I will eat an apple and go to the doctor regularly; if I want to continue my species, I will become well adjusted, find a mate and make babies; if I want to go to Heaven, I will pick up the Bible and trust Jesus Christ as my lord and savior; if I want to be a good citizen, I will sing the pledge of allegiance and -- Naw, I'm just kidding, I have nothing.

>> ^zomgunicorns:
so apart from answering some physics questions (according to the Wiki entry on the LHC), is there some end reason why they are doing this? Is there something they can use from the results to benefit mankind or are they just hoping to blow up the universe?


There is unlikely to be any direct benefit to mankind from the LHC aside from increasing our knowledge of the fundamental laws of the universe. I did see an interview with one guy from CERN claiming it could help us develop teleportation-type technology, but I think he was just trying to get the interviewer to care.

High-energy physics does tend to push the technology envelope, though, which often forces advancements that are useful in other industries. The world wide web was born at CERN.

>> ^Seric:
The internet eh? O Rly?
From Wikipedia:
'Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee OM KBE FRS FREng FRSA (born 8 June 1955) is an English computer scientist credited with inventing the World Wide Web. On 25 December 1990 he implemented the first successful communication between an HTTP client and server via the Internet ...


What the hell is this? 1990! Christ, that was like yesterday. The Internet is so much older than that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

You can't deny that the Internet and TCP/IP came out of the United States.

Also, where are your Mars rovers again?

I'm just winding ya up, I love England.