My direct experience with Asians (specifically Indian origin) at college were that a lot of them were admitted with scholarships or worked as teaching assistants to pay back what they owed as the difference. Many of them were in the graduate program while I was in the undergraduate, but my last two years there about half my classes were graduate classes with a couple projects removed for undergrads.

And what I witnessed to make up the higher than average test scores of the Indian students was that they would cheat. I had one of them turn around during a test and try to cheat off of my work. I turned him in so I wouldn't be blamed if he copied word for word something before I noticed, nothing happened.

They would take past students homework, put their name on it. Photocopy it 5 times and all the indians in the class would turn it in as their own work. They would get together to work on projects, despite it not being group projects...it was all heads on one screen for hours on end.

So, they may test better and score better, but after speaking with a few....their society doesn't seem to punish cheating like you have here in the US. So I don't put much stock in scores, I spoke with a number of them and they had their smart members who carried the dumb ones along.

And the reverse can also happen. The dumb ones can smother the smart ones potential. Seen it happen while I was in school, "jocks" who were obviously very intelligent would blow off classes and homework because it wasn't what the other guys in their group were doing. These were white folks mostly.

And then you have native born US people of white or black families who are just not capable of mathematics beyond simple multiplication and division. And don't absorb most subjects, but might be a wizard at automotive or electrical given the opportunity. Perhaps they are developing more slowly than others, or perhaps they will never be capable of what you expect of them. But they reflect poorly in your scores, and are not immigrants.

That doesn't mean there isn't a place for them in society.

Now if you tell me that the jobs that would normally be there for folks like this are just swamped by the immigration.....then that's another thing they should be accounted for.
Or if their low scores are holding back other students, that's nationwide...and I'll agree it's a problem that needs to be addressed.


Obviously in immigrants or native born, if you don't see improve in certain cultures after one generation...something is wrong. And it can't simply be that these people are from a certain background that is incapable of adapting...they are human after all.

But I don't think immigration is causing the flaws you see. I think they are exacerbating the problem that already existed prior to their arrival. And that native born and people with established cultural centers in those areas have learned to adapt to and taught to the new arrivals.

A few flaws I saw while in high school:

- Over indulgence in sports programs. The books would be literally falling apart and they would be paying to have a new sports complex built. Saw this in a number of schools. I even did some work on one once I was out of high school. Multi-million dollar project where half of it was in their field and complex. The other big chunk was for the administration, and a quarter or less was put into stuff for the kids...you know the reason the place exists in the first place. The common thinking was that the sports complex would "make them money", except if it had to pay it's own way and cover the payments on the property, upkeep costs, etc...it would spent it's entire years "earnings" in a single month. But the board thought it was making money, despite what everyone else told them. While the actual classrooms were all cost (in their eyes)....even though they should be the core of the school's focus and were rarely without issues. Leaking roofs, leaking windows, etc.

- Teachers overworked. Many of them had extra curricular things they were in charge of in addition to teaching class, grading homework, meeting with parents, etc. Some even worked second jobs so they could supplement their income....especially the newer teachers.

- Teachers over-controlled. Discussion was kept a little too politically correct in most explanations of topics. It makes it more difficult to wade through the language to get to the lesson being taught. Sometimes some plain spoken wording would have made it much more clear. Dancing around the holocaust and civil war subjects are doing a disservice to their impact.

- Teachers reciting from text books. Basically in these cases the teachers didn't know the subject well enough to explain it to others. These people should no be teaching. I knew of parents who would come in and remove students from particular teachers classes because they had older siblings who told their parents how horrible this teacher was. I had to suffer through because I couldn't convince my parents, and I think it hurt me in the subject of mathematics for quite sometime following that class. I lost a lot of interest in the subject because of this teacher.

- Stupid punishment. I had principals who would bend over backwards for sports players especially soccer and football, but would threaten me with detention and what not every time they thought I was doing something. One example stands out. Big snow the night before, they never plowed the township I lived in until right around the time school started. My vehicle wouldn't go in the snow, I had to go home and get a ride from my parents since their vehicle was heavier. Principal didn't believe me until the bus that would have been on my route showed up 20 minutes after I did. He threatened me with all kinds of stuff. And I lost another big chunk of interest in school, because why bother if they are going to punish you for nothing and let others slide for basically bullying other students.

- And I could go on and on. If you weren't a native English speaker or aware that all this above shit was common. You might think you were being singled out and only end up going because the law says you have to. And most times despite the evidence that the above does not work, it's just enforced more stringently...making it even less desirable to put up with all the BS.

Education might be considered a socialist program, but it's lost it's focus from education and put it into sports or administrative costs...or when it comes to college outrageous fees that have little to do with what you are receiving. Or....profit centered for many people involved. A capitalist way of thinking, and it's not WHY these places exist..it's against their nature to be this way. And it's going to affect the overall education of your population as costs rise and money is taken away from what should be it's only goal.

>> ^enoch:

>> ^Enzoblue:
Everyone whose ever been tempted by conspiracy theories should read Foucault's Pendulum. It's mandatory reading. Changed me from a potential sheep to an amused observer. Man's a genius.

this is the first time i have heard of this man.
maybe he brings insight to such things as exposing humanities penchant for buying into conspiracy theories but i have to say i wholeheartedly disagree with his take on love,the power of love and passionate creative force it can be in regards to life.
what he is speaking of concerning "love",is ego-love,which is a want/desire and is a purely selfish animal and has the tendency to slip in to hatred quite easily.
of course i am basing my opinion solely on this interview which is not really fair at all.
i am surprised i never heard of him considering i am quite fascinated with symbology.
methinks this man deserves a bit of investigating.


The book doesn't really expose the penchant for buying into conspiracy theories, it delves deep into the penchant for creating them and techniques involved, (and when I say deep, I mean deep). As far as ego-love, I struggle with this myself and, (if intellectually honest), can't really place my finger on any love that isn't ego-love.

Edit: Egads wait, lemme rephrase. I guess love of nature doesn't apply.... Nor does love of siblings/children. In personal relationships, (the kind that make me sick to my stomach in love), I'm crazy possessive though. I guess I need to work on this.

Don't see any obvious sociopaths in the group, just kids acting like kids, on a good day. It's when they're asked to share with a kid they don't like, or maybe siblings, when they can get fussy.

And yes, just about everything on here gets political somehow, which is another sociological experiment in itself.

For all those who see the initial hit with a pipe as justified, have you considered that he could have just swung it in front of himself without making contact?

If self defense is the goal, you don't have to hit. Just swing. And call for your co-workers to call for the police.

Moot point, though. Clearly everyone involved in this incident have anger control issues.

For the record, I did not upvote this video. Although I have come back to watch the comment stream drama unfold.

And @petpeeved? This level of discourse isn't that uncommon on the Sift, sad to say. Although I think it is great that this is the first time you have seen it. It won't your last, I guarantee. (Still better than youtube, though. Always better than youtube and siblings.)

Sometimes you just have to walk away, peeved. Like this guy with a pipe didn't.

I seriously thought you may have some connection to Hewlett Packard (stock symbol: HPQ)

In reply to this comment by hpqp:
1. One of my earliest memories is being on a boat between Japan and Korea during a sea storm. Rolling around in the room as the boat was rocked was terrible fun to the 3-year-old I was.

2. I been to more countries then I care to mention. People are really all the same all over. I hate big cities.

3. Played in a mine field for a whole afternoon. The next day a farmer died there. For the year we lived on Croatia's border we could hear/feel the bombs shake the house.

4. Am often told I do not act my gender. Sometimes I play it up on purpose.

5. Am not afraid of nor particularly moved by death. This causes me problems with my family when relatives/siblings die.

6. Am a pretty good shot with both ARs and handguns, even won a few medals in my teens. Stopped shooting because the atmosphere at the club was sexist/macho. At least I'm ready for the Zombie Apocalypse, and can take photos without a tripod at 1" exposure.

7. Like to use quotes from an opponent in a debate to attack their argument. Like to debate in general. i can be argumentative just for the sake of being contrary.

8. I dreamed of being multi-lingual as a child. I'm better at writing than talking. I was the first (and only) in my family to go to University.

9. Grew up in a fundie christian family. Read the Bible innumerable amount of times, learned verses and whole chapters by heart. Am now atheist and antitheist, like most of my family.

10. Been diagnosed schizoide, borderline, bipolar, etc. Take antidepressants to avoid incapacitating breakdowns.

11. 90% of my waking life has been spent procrastinating. VS is my latest fix, and the only online community I've ever become a part of.

12. I love dreaming. Most of my best memories are from my dreams. I daydream often, but retain full situational awareness. Lucid dreaming is awesome.

13. All of the major injuries I've sustained were self-inflicted, albeit by accident. Never broke a bone, but my body is always sore (and not always in a good way).

14. Originally left-handed, but forced to be right-handed during childhood because left-handedness is of the devil. Leftie is now my primary masturbation hand <img src="http://cdn.videosift.com/cdm/emoticon/xd3.gif" class="smiley" />

15. I watch porn at least once a week. Consider myself a feminist.

16. Grew up around boys. I don't really count my first time as my first time. Hardly any one I know knows about my first time.

17. Have never been in a successful relationship. Longest and most enjoyable was as someone's lover/fuckbuddy.

18. I have no patience for stupid people.

19. I've never even been tempted to try drugs, cigarettes. Stopped drinking before turning 18. I have little enough control of my brain and emotions as is.

20. I love cinema, I think cinema is humanity reflected, our dreams, desires, hopes, fears and experiences. When watching a movie, I am frequently the only person laughing.

21. I don't really like being the center of attention.

22. My profile name is not an acronym. When I started using the webs I wanted a username that was anonymous and meaningless to all but myself. It is supposed to be an obscurely emoticon-ish version of Robby the Robot from Forbidden Planet.

23. Forbidden Planet freaked me out when I first saw it as a kid. It is still one of my favourite sci-fi movies. I would like to write an SF novel, but fear I lack the discipline and talent.

24. Like to think I'm special/unique, but know that I'm not. Some of this list is copy-pasta'd from others' posts, but also applies for me. (can you find which parts? : )

25. I still have absolutely no clue what I want to do with my life.

1. One of my earliest memories is being on a boat between Japan and Korea during a sea storm. Rolling around in the room as the boat was rocked was terrible fun to the 3-year-old I was.

2. I been to more countries then I care to mention. People are really all the same all over. I hate big cities.

3. Played in a mine field for a whole afternoon. The next day a farmer died there. For the year we lived on Croatia's border we could hear/feel the bombs shake the house.

4. Am often told I do not act my gender. Sometimes I play it up on purpose.

5. Am not afraid of nor particularly moved by death. This causes me problems with my family when relatives/siblings die.

6. Am a pretty good shot with both ARs and handguns, even won a few medals in my teens. Stopped shooting because the atmosphere at the club was sexist/macho. At least I'm ready for the Zombie Apocalypse, and can take photos without a tripod at 1" exposure.

7. Like to use quotes from an opponent in a debate to attack their argument. Like to debate in general. i can be argumentative just for the sake of being contrary.

8. I dreamed of being multi-lingual as a child. I'm better at writing than talking. I was the first (and only) in my family to go to University.

9. Grew up in a fundie christian family. Read the Bible innumerable amount of times, learned verses and whole chapters by heart. Am now atheist and antitheist, like most of my family.

10. Been diagnosed schizoide, borderline, bipolar, etc. Take antidepressants to avoid incapacitating breakdowns.

11. 90% of my waking life has been spent procrastinating. VS is my latest fix, and the only online community I've ever become a part of.

12. I love dreaming. Most of my best memories are from my dreams. I daydream often, but retain full situational awareness. Lucid dreaming is awesome.

13. All of the major injuries I've sustained were self-inflicted, albeit by accident. Never broke a bone, but my body is always sore (and not always in a good way).

14. Originally left-handed, but forced to be right-handed during childhood because left-handedness is of the devil. Leftie is now my primary masturbation hand

15. I watch porn at least once a week. Consider myself a feminist.

16. Grew up around boys. I don't really count my first time as my first time. Hardly any one I know knows about my first time.

17. Have never been in a successful relationship. Longest and most enjoyable was as someone's lover/fuckbuddy.

18. I have no patience for stupid people.

19. I've never even been tempted to try drugs, cigarettes. Stopped drinking before turning 18. I have little enough control of my brain and emotions as is.

20. I love cinema, I think cinema is humanity reflected, our dreams, desires, hopes, fears and experiences. When watching a movie, I am frequently the only person laughing.

21. I don't really like being the center of attention.

22. My profile name is not an acronym. When I started using the webs I wanted a username that was anonymous and meaningless to all but myself. It is supposed to be an obscurely emoticon-ish version of Robby the Robot from Forbidden Planet.

23. Forbidden Planet freaked me out when I first saw it as a kid. It is still one of my favourite sci-fi movies. I would like to write an SF novel, but fear I lack the discipline and talent.

24. Like to think I'm special/unique, but know that I'm not. Some of this list is copy-pasta'd from others' posts, but also applies for me. (can you find which parts? )

25. I still have absolutely no clue what I want to do with my life.

Ah! I see what the problem is! You and I see the video differently!!

I see a man trying to make his baby laugh at first so that WHEN he does the laugh that he knows will scare her, she will make that "funny" scared face -- he KNOWS she will be scared and that "funny" face is coming.

You don't think he knows it is coming.

You see one thing in this video. I see it differently. We don't have to agree that that is what is going on here. I may be wrong. You may be wrong.

Regardless what happens in this particular video, it doesn't change my point that it is fucked up to tease your young child for your own amusement. And I was careful to say repeatedly -- baby and small child. Kids get teased. Parents will tease, siblings will tease. My point is -- wait for the mental development to be in place. Babies and small children need time to grow first. They don't understand.

I haven't used the word torture since my first post. Sorry it seems to have caught your attention so strongly.



>> ^FlowersInHisHair:

No, sorry, I still don't buy that it's "fucked up" to do that to a kid. To try to make it laugh and fail is not fucked up. It's not right to call it torture or say that it's abuse because you demean what child abuse and torture really mean when you do that.
It's a staggering coincidence you grew up with a series of pictures of you in this situation in your family album, and that it traumatised you to such an extent. I wonder what your father would say if he read that you thought that about him - that the time when he tried to make you laugh but he failed and you cried instead, he was torturing you, abusing you, and enjoying it.
>> ^bareboards2:
All I am saying is.... Show kindness. Understand that babies and small children are not complicated thinkers. Their worlds are different and more simple.

>> ^marbles:




And that happened without anything even hitting it!! IS IT MAGIC? Guess we better rethink our whole approach to building mechanics. Cuz like, you build a building, you expect it to stay built, not to fall on its own just because it felt distraught over its two older siblings.

I guess those support columns were made of Jell-O. That has to be it.

By the way, i downvoted this video, because Behe doesnt deserve the platform. He's lying about biology, and he KNOWS he is lying. All his arguments (basically just one) was pulverized by real scientists in the Dover trial RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIS EYES, he was shown flagellums with missing parts, people explained how things evolve new functions etc. and he was forced to accept that "intelligent design theory" is no more scientific than astrology.

From Wikipedia:

Professor Behe was questioned concerning his 1996 claim that science would never find an evolutionary explanation for the immune system. He was presented with fiftyeight peer-reviewed publications, nine books, and several immunology textbook chapters about the evolution of the immune system; however, he simply insisted that this was still not sufficient evidence of evolution, and that it was not "good enough"

The guy is a deluded fraud and a liar who is completely unwilling to understand or accept evolution in the face of the overwhelming evidence that has been, on occasion, personally presented to him.

Instead of doing what any scientist and reasonable person would do, and discard his long-since disproven nonsense, he keeps trotting out the same baloney, in an attempt to fool people who know nothing about biology.

He is also, according to his own son, religiously retarded on other levels, when his son became an atheist, he basically forbade him to talk to his younger siblings. (http://breakingspells.net/son-of-michael-behe-discusses-his-atheism/)

Religious, deluded, dishonest nutcase

Ayn Rands philosophy might actually work if every human being on the planet was an only child and both parents were either dead or emotionally removed. Once you get a call from your sister and she tells you to come over so she can cry on your shoulder, you realize the key to happiness in life: You can never be truly happy while those around you suffer. Ever.

Sorry Ayn, thems the rules.

Edit: Wrote this drunk. To clarify, I find her work suspiciously lacking in siblings and family dynamic. It's telling to me because a large part of my personal barometer is based on my family in which I find great joy. I've always found her characters treating the natural desire to belong with contempt, treating it as a weakness that should be fought against and using isolation like a self imposed punishment, (or indulgence if you like), to steel their resolve. It's ok to do that, I guess, but even with your own family?? Seems like repression to me, and that smacks of religion.

>> ^TheGenk:

14k$ for 1 semester?
Let me check germany: 500€ for 1 semester... hmm, let me check what I have to pay since I got siblings: 0€ for 1 semester
Haha, way to go capitalist idiots!


Hell... even here in Portugal, a whole year of college is less than €1000, and if you're poor, you can get a scholarship and pay almost half of that.

So yeah... I gotta agree with TheGenk on this one.

14k$ for 1 semester?
Let me check germany: 500€ for 1 semester... hmm, let me check what I have to pay since I got siblings: 0€ for 1 semester

Haha, way to go capitalist idiots!

Very well said. Thanks for taking the time to explain the difficult position of seeing the irrational behavior in others and how that can tend towards a feeling of personal superiority. Modesty, while ideal, can be difficult to maintain.

In reply to this comment by MaxWilder:
Let's get some terms straight:

Atheist - Anybody who does not believe in a specific religion. This includes those who call themselves agnostic, secular, non-religious, or skeptic. These groups use other words because they fear the negative stereotype associated with the word atheist. It just means that you don't believe. That's all. Maybe you even think that it's possible, but so unlikely that you will live your life without it. That's still atheism.

Strong atheism - Anyone who firmly believes that there is no supreme being. Yes, this is a type of faith, since there is no proof one way or the other. But these people are actually rare. Most atheists are simply saying that the God of Abraham (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), Hinduism, Shintoism, and anything else that requires magical thinking are nothing more that stories made up by human beings.

Anti-theist - Anyone who advocates for the end of religion and magical thinking. Of course there are many atheists who fall into this category, but there are also many who don't. You may know many atheists but are simply unaware of it, because they never talk about religion. It's just not a part of their lives.

I agree that anti-theists can be very annoying because anybody who is outspoken can be very annoying. But their cause is vital as long as there are religious nuts trying to inject religion into so many aspects of our secular government. If the evangelicals would go away, the loud anti-theists would disappear overnight.

And in regards to atheist arrogance... When you are ten years old and you know that Santa Clause doesn't exist, it's very hard not to feel superior to your seven year old sibling who still believes, and writes him a letter, and tells the guy in the mall what he wants, and stays up late on Christmas Eve trying to catch a glimpse. It's obvious to you that the presents come from Mom and Dad, not some fat guy in a red suit that magically visits every home in one night. Magic doesn't exist. The story doesn't fit with what you know of the real world.

It's the same way with atheists. Even though I bite my tongue around friends who are religious, it's hard not to look down on them and think of them as immature. Wishing doesn't make something true, praying doesn't make things happen, and a beautiful sunset or rainbow is not a miracle. And every time I hear somebody praising God for something good in their life, I can't help but think about all the real things they should actually be thanking, like their family and friends, their job, or even their own hard work. Some atheists are better than others in hiding this feeling of superiority, but it will always be there. And with good reason.

Let's get some terms straight:

Atheist - Anybody who does not believe in a specific religion. This includes those who call themselves agnostic, secular, non-religious, or skeptic. These groups use other words because they fear the negative stereotype associated with the word atheist. It just means that you don't believe. That's all. Maybe you even think that it's possible, but so unlikely that you will live your life without it. That's still atheism.

Strong atheism - Anyone who firmly believes that there is no supreme being. Yes, this is a type of faith, since there is no proof one way or the other. But these people are actually rare. Most atheists are simply saying that the God of Abraham (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), Hinduism, Shintoism, and anything else that requires magical thinking are nothing more that stories made up by human beings.

Anti-theist - Anyone who advocates for the end of religion and magical thinking. Of course there are many atheists who fall into this category, but there are also many who don't. You may know many atheists but are simply unaware of it, because they never talk about religion. It's just not a part of their lives.

I agree that anti-theists can be very annoying because anybody who is outspoken can be very annoying. But their cause is vital as long as there are religious nuts trying to inject religion into so many aspects of our secular government. If the evangelicals would go away, the loud anti-theists would disappear overnight.

And in regards to atheist arrogance... When you are ten years old and you know that Santa Clause doesn't exist, it's very hard not to feel superior to your seven year old sibling who still believes, and writes him a letter, and tells the guy in the mall what he wants, and stays up late on Christmas Eve trying to catch a glimpse. It's obvious to you that the presents come from Mom and Dad, not some fat guy in a red suit that magically visits every home in one night. Magic doesn't exist. The story doesn't fit with what you know of the real world.

It's the same way with atheists. Even though I bite my tongue around friends who are religious, it's hard not to look down on them and think of them as immature. Wishing doesn't make something true, praying doesn't make things happen, and a beautiful sunset or rainbow is not a miracle. And every time I hear somebody praising God for something good in their life, I can't help but think about all the real things they should actually be thanking, like their family and friends, their job, or even their own hard work. Some atheists are better than others in hiding this feeling of superiority, but it will always be there. And with good reason.

This, while being epically awesome, confuses me. It looks like not only do the people in the audience know the melody but they also know parts of the choreography. I could perhaps understand the audience members being mostly comprised of siblings/parents of the singers knowing the melody, but them knowing parts of the choreography just blows my mind... Perhaps there's a level of social popularity that this meme enjoyed in other parts of the world (I'm in Vancouver, BC in Western Canada) that it simply didn't enjoy here? A level that would drive everyday people to know the song and choreography that the man does as he walks... Or perhaps this is just one big inside joke?

Actually! Perhaps there's a director on the stage showing the audience what to do? Hmmm... the audience just looks too synchronized to be following ad-hoc direction. Anybody have any information to lighten my Christmaslololo confusion?