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PFAS: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

bremnet says...

Howdy - I don't know if "addressed" is the right word. Commented on, but not given sufficient perspective. Having said that, the problem is incredibly complex, so there should be no expectation that Mr. Oliver's video or any other single thesis on the topic could possibly suffice.

Your "one chemical bond difference" is an appropriate consideration, but with recognition that once we reach on the order of C20-C40 length dispersable or emulsifiable molecules as surfactants / surface energy modifiers, the insoluble polymers come into play, with not 30'ish bonds growing one at a time, but leaping to 20,000 or more. No doubt the pool has already been irreversibly pissed into by the irresponsible producers that convert small molecules into very, very large ones, but with some control, responsibility, and integrity in our industrial process owners (yes, hell just froze over) there is no reason why we could not safely continue to produce the polymeric forms of PFAS. We do so for substantially more toxic chemical conversion processes today.

It's interesting to note the (usual) examples brought forward by others in this post (Teflon cookware), just waiting for someone to mention Gore-Tex, but by far the biggest impact won't be on consumer goods that we all touch regularly and recognize the name brands of, but will be on the industrial / commercial uses of these polymeric families that are pervasive in the systems / processes that we all derive benefit from every day. Ironies exist, that perhaps confuse the "all PFAS are bad" premise ... consider - effectively every seal, gasket and control valve in a water purification plant is most commonly made of a PFAS polymeric compound, PTFE included, all tested to rigorous specifications and compliance by specific agencies that do nothing other than deal with potable water (thankfully not the EPA - it's National Sanitation Foundation (the other NSF), or Water Research Advisory Scheme (WRAS) in the UK etc.) .

So my contention and the view of many in the end user community is that it's not the final form of some of these compounds that are bad, it's the horrendous messes we leave producing them. We can't unwind our Clock of Dumb, but killing the entire crop just to get rid of the long ago seeded weeds doesn't solve the actual problem, it makes it much, much larger.

Thanks for your comments.

newtboy said:

To be fair, most of your complaints were addressed in the piece.

For instance, medical implants, fairly stable, yes, but not in extreme heat like cremation, so as used they’re toxic to the environment despite being considered stable and inert.

The reason to ban them all was also explained, banning one toxic substance at a time means one chemical bond difference and the company can go ahead with Cancer causer 2.0 for a decade until it’s banned for being toxic, and then repeat. It’s how they’ve operated for decades.

I’m fine with outlawing the entire class and putting the onus on the chemical companies to prove any new variants are safe instead of forcing the hamstrung epa to prove they’re unsafe. I also think any company that dumped it into waterways should be instantly and completely forfeited to pay for cleanup. No company has the funds to pay for cleanup, but their assets are at least a start.

PFAS: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

bremnet says...

I hate it when the uneducated try to explain a complex issue and do a piss poor job of it. Is PFAS a problem? Sure. Are ALL PFAS compounds a problem with regards to their toxicity? No. The small molecule species are problematic because of mobility. The polymeric species are stable as fuck, that's why they were invented and why we use them as seals and barrier layers to isolate corrosive liquids and gases, and why we use them in such things as medical implants. The polymers excel because they are inert and largely unreactive. So - are they all bad? No. Are they all good? No. But it's too late - the fuckwits like Oliver have fueled the Emotional Response bus, and society won't stand for outdated concepts like scientific investigation or rational thought. Eight member countries of the EU are presently on track to restrict or ban all PFAS in any form, sweeping all compounds into the same category with no differentiation between a water soluble perfluorinated molecule like perfluorinated PVME and a one million molecular weight PTFE polymer. If it has a -CF2- moiety in it, it's subject to being banned. Good science doesn't matter any more, the knee-jerk fear mongerers are now making the decisions.

Fox & GOP Freak Out About Door to Door Vaccination Campaign

newtboy says...

600000 dead thanks to pretending it’s a mild flu and ignoring it for months = “fake COVID fear”
4 dead in a hostile country = “spend as long as it takes to force Clinton to pay”

No punishment, just exclusion from society and commerce in self defense. When you morons start spreading the next variant that mutated in one of your obese bodies and we go back to full quarantine, I’ll be totally open to either get the shot or get shot….you’ll be murdering people in the name of ignorant obstinance.
What happened to “grandma is fine dying if you can go back to work”…now turned into “I’m not getting a shot so we can go back to work because no one pwomised me a wowweepop and I’m afwaid of getting owchied.”

Go door to door, any house with an unvaccinated occupant should get sealed and the names published, and breaking quarantine should be the death penalty anyone can inflict just like you idiots said the elderly would accept.
Definitely anyone unvaccinated should pay every dime of treatment at this point, right? You claim to be about personal responsibility, so lobby your representatives to give insurance companies and the fed the right to not pay for COVID treatment for unvaccinated people. 90% of you morons would try to get one today if that was the case.

Public health is not a personal choice as long as you live in a society. Leave society, then you can live in personal freedom on quarantine island.

bobknight33 said:

The Freak Out is from the Democrats spreading fake covid fear and demanding you get the shot or else be punished in some for or fashion.

Get it or don't get it it is YOUR choice.

Wasting tax dollars to know on doors is foolish.
Put a stand up at liquor store / grocery stores.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

I am certain. Science doesn't lie, and I don't have to take someone's word, I can examine data, understand chemistry, and see short and long term trends. The data is undeniable, the only thing wrong with what the media tells you is they paint FAR too rosy a picture. You would think, based on media reports, that if we did stay at only 1.5C above pre industrial levels all is fine, that's nonsense. Truth is 1.5C is where they theorized we lose all control and skyrocket up from there to....nobody knows where, but hot. I think we are on track to 1.5C before 2030, and the feedback loops are already kicking in now. Does that mean we die in 2030? No, but it means our collective fate is sealed and completely out of our control.

I do plant trees, I already have solar, I drive well under 4000 miles a year, in fact I haven't driven anywhere but the grocery store in the wife's car in over 6 month when my car broke, and I don't miss it, I don't have AC, and yes, I need to get on my bike more, for my weight and blood pressure. My money IS where my mouth is, and I still was willing to put it on the line....you aren't.

A big difference is, if somehow I am wrong, what I do is still proper, cleaner, safer, and actually cheaper. Your ideas and ideals lead to detrimental, polluting, dangerous, and more expensive actions and processes even if miraculously they don't lead to our extinction this century.

Are you snatching up cheap uninsurable coastline in Florida and Louisiana? Are you selling off your water rights because they're a dime a dozen? Are you short selling produce and grains on margin? Are you doing anything to risk your money based on what you say?

Your turn.

Edit: I don't do mobs. I prefer people who think for themselves.

bobknight33 said:

That's not the deal.

If you are SOOOOOOOOOOO certain.

Start planting trees, turn off your electric, abandon your cars, turn off you AC and start peddling.

I don't see much action from those who "believe".

Mount up a mob and start planting.

Mom arrested after posing as 7th grade daughter in school

newtboy says...

I’m wondering what her solution might be....starting school an hour early so every student can be fully screened before entering a completely closed and sealed campus? Incredibly harsh sentencing for those caught trespassing?

Did she consider the repercussions for her daughter, who was clearly complicit with her criminal plan to expose lax security? Expulsion is a real possibility.

She did prove security is lacking, but was there really any question? Everything is lacking in public schools. Now everyone knows just how easy it is to go unnoticed in schools, does that make the children safer or at higher risk?

Now it’s time for her to pay the price....it should be high as a very public example of what happens to trespassers.

What a maroon.

LiquidPiston X-Mini 79cc SI Engine Animation

SFOGuy says...

"How is the engine going in durability testing? "We've been hyper-focused on proving the general operability, and showing that the engine works in these application demonstrators," says Shkolnik. "Now that it's pretty apparent that it's working, everyone wants to know how many hours can it run. We're working through that, it's part of what we're going to be doing over the next year. We're running engines for tens of hours, dozens of hours, we're not yet in the hundreds of hours where we want to be.

"We're not even running them long enough to think about things like seal replacement yet," he continues. "It's been a combination of little things we're addressing as we go along. "

Hmmm. So, not an actual engineer--why would a seal that's in the wall and has the rotor spinning past it do so much better than a seal which is in the rotor and spinning and spinning past the wall?

StukaFox said:

This response seems to have a few gaps in it, but here's what a company rep said:

"And then there's our apex seals, they're like our piston rings," he continues. "In the Wankel engine, they're inside the rotor, again. They move at a high speed, and bounce around, they're very hard to lubricate. In our case, they're stationary, they don't bounce around, and you can lubricate them directly from the housing.

"So we basically solved the key challenges the old rotaries had with combustion and with oiling. Those oiling challenges caused both durability issues and emissions problems. By making those components stationary, we solve the challenges of the old rotary. And we also upgraded its cycle to give it much higher efficiency."

https://newatlas.com/military/liquidpiston-rotary-x-engine-army-generator/

LiquidPiston X-Mini 79cc SI Engine Animation

StukaFox says...

This response seems to have a few gaps in it, but here's what a company rep said:

"And then there's our apex seals, they're like our piston rings," he continues. "In the Wankel engine, they're inside the rotor, again. They move at a high speed, and bounce around, they're very hard to lubricate. In our case, they're stationary, they don't bounce around, and you can lubricate them directly from the housing.

"So we basically solved the key challenges the old rotaries had with combustion and with oiling. Those oiling challenges caused both durability issues and emissions problems. By making those components stationary, we solve the challenges of the old rotary. And we also upgraded its cycle to give it much higher efficiency."

https://newatlas.com/military/liquidpiston-rotary-x-engine-army-generator/

SFOGuy said:

Someone tell me why the seals won't fail in the same way that Wankel rotors in the RX-7 do--but it will be a lot of fun until they do!

LiquidPiston X-Mini 79cc SI Engine Animation

newtboy says...

My guess is because there's only one set of seals in the case, not a second set for the "piston", and so there's no seal to seal scraping. The smooth shape of the "piston" and lack of corners should minimize wear.

SFOGuy said:

Someone tell me why the seals won't fail in the same way that Wankel rotors in the RX-7 do--but it will be a lot of fun until they do!

LiquidPiston X-Mini 79cc SI Engine Animation

SFOGuy says...

Someone tell me why the seals won't fail in the same way that Wankel rotors in the RX-7 do--but it will be a lot of fun until they do!

Sour Herring the right way | w/ friends vomit

SFOGuy says...

Surstromming main course.
Durian palate cleanser
Then a meat course of decayed seal paw, that Innuit delicacy?

StukaFox said:

"The guys try durian(...)"

Someone brought one of those fucking things into our office once and the evacuation of the workspace and people's stomachs was epic. You can smell that shit all the way to the ISS and it's probably the reason aliens haven't invaded us yet. It's sorta like that movie 'Signs', only instead of making no fucking sense what-so-ever, the aliens show up, smell a durian, mutter "are you fucking kidding me?!" and then get back on their spaceship and fuck off to somewhere less malodorous. This is also what keeps Tacoma mostly vacated. Seriously, the reason WaDoT lowered the speed limit to 50 on the part of I-5 that has the misfortune of passing through Tacoma is that they hate everyone west of the Cascades and this is how they get back at us. Yeah, FUCK YOU -- Tacoma may stink, but Biden's still president!

Cunts, the whole fucking lot of 'em.

Lawyers Can Remain Silent, Too

Trump’s Vast And Ongoing Project To Steal The Election

vil says...

"99% of violence last 3+ years s from the left refusal to acknowledge a peaceful transfer to power because Hillary lost."

This is an outright lie. No one questioned the transfer of power based on the election result. Many people were horrified that a self centered imbecile.. TLDR.

"With such a polarized society, why would one introduce a voting method lacking high standards of control, unless the party pushing for such is that they want to seal the election?"

Introduce? Read up about mail in and absentee ballots. You have to go state by state. They have existed for a long time, they leave a paper trail. Nothing "introduced" there. Much better than any form of electronic voting for instance.

"So this piece of fake news is taking the position that Trump will bitch / moan and fight after the election all those un-counted mail in votes."

That is the position Trump is taking, explicitly and literally, yes.

Then just so up and VOTE in person.

Exactly, why bitch about mail in ballots when you can shut up and vote in person?

As for possible mail in shenanigans that dont occur:::::

Election fraud is extremely rare. If you shut up and vote in person you dont have to be worried about your mail in vote getting lost.

Vote in person and be done with it.

There you go, just like you, personally, dont have to get an abortion, you can also, if you so wish, vote in person.

Why stop people from voting by mail, is it because you are afraid to lose?

bobknight33 said:

stuff

Trump’s Vast And Ongoing Project To Steal The Election

bobknight33 says...

99% of violence last 3+ years s from the left refusal to acknowledge a peaceful transfer to power because Hillary lost.


With such a polarized society, why would one introduce a voting method lacking high standards of control, unless the party pushing for such is that they want to seal the election?



So this piece of fake news is taking the position that Trump will bitch / moan and fight after the election all those un-counted mail in votes.

Then just so up and VOTE in person.


As for possible mail in shenanigans that dont occur:::::







Vote in person and be done with it.

Claustrophobia Cave Compilation

Circulating Seal

StukaFox says...

Fucking witchcraft! It's witchcraft, I tell ya! Listen you, we ain't havin' any of that hocusy-pocusy bullshit here -- this is a decent Christian site as is evidenced by the number of atheist posters. You can't just fly in here on your broom and be all like, "Gentlemen, BEHOLD! It's a seal in a ring -- IN FUCKING JAPAN!" and expect us to believe that reason or knowledge was somehow involved. We're fucking Americans here and if there's ONE thing we know, it's not reason or knowledge. Yup, if blaming witches for pretty much every goddamn thing but the sun coming up was good enough for every Republican president since Rutherford Birchard Hayes, I suspect it beats thinking for yourself in a cogent fashion or otherwise using your brain as anything but a hat-warmer.

eric3579 said:

Could it be that the seal ring pool is common knowledge to many of us?
https://en.nixe.co.jp/look-touch/

or maybe it was the ferris wheel that gave me my first clue to discovery?

or maybe i saw it on a reddit thread regarding this exact video.

Guess you'll never know for sure.



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