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The micro text to McCain's down vote of the ACA repeal

RFlagg says...

I thought Trump was the world's best deal maker, didn't he have a book ghost written for him (because he can't read and write well past the 4th grade level) called the "Art of the Deal"? During the campaign he said again and again how "Only I can... [insert whatever]". None of those things are done that only he could do. It's like he lied... "lies, all lies!" to quote Frau.

They blame Democrats for not joining in, but they weren't even invited to participate in Trumpcare on the Senate side at all... hell, most of the Republicans themselves weren't allowed to participate in the creation. Compare that to the ACA, which had over a year of public debate and had plenty of Republican input and amendments. The Republicans have the number of people to pass anything they could want to pass, but the world's best deal maker, can't make a deal with his own party?

I think this shows more and more how the Republican party needs to split. The divides in the party itself are becoming too great. The problem of course is then they loose control as you split the vote, Fox News and the right wing media would follow the more right wing split, while the Reagan era style Republicans would be sidelined, though maintain a big voting block among less brain washed Republicans.

The party can't even get a simple repeal passed, which they've passed before, of course it was just symbolic then, actually passing a repeal seems harder. They campaigned for years on how they had a better plan, of course they didn't show it, which should have been the first warning they didn't have one, and now they spend all this time trying to come up with something better and still can't pull it off, despite having a clear majority. Of course another warning sign should have been the fact that last break, only 2 of them had enough guts to actually hold town halls, the rest avoided their constitutions...

Unrelated side note: I still say all the Senators and Representatives should stay home, in their home districts. Technology is such that they don't need to all be in Washington at all. Of course I'd also cut their pay then, say to what an entry level soldier (sans hazard pay) would make since it is a service position, not a career, term limit them (12 years House, 12 or 16 years Senate, 8 years President, or 20 years combined total max). And then you make the number of Representatives actually be based on population, we've had 435 Reps since 1911, and the population has grown a lot since then... say one Representative for every 500,000 people, which would give us 646 Representatives, which stay in their home districts. But of course that would rob them of their money, their political careers, and make them more liable to the people they represent, so congress would never make those changes.

SFOGuy (Member Profile)

ChaosEngine (Member Profile)

New Rule: The Lesser of Two Evils

ChaosEngine says...

@bareboards2, I have now reached the point where, while I feel bad for them, whatever happens to women and minorities is a secondary concern.

I'm far more concerned with the lasting impact Trump will have on climate change. You can repeal whatever barbarity cheetoh-face inevitably proposes, but it's entirely possible that his energy policies will literally doom the human race.

Protests Against Trump Are Protests Against God

RFlagg says...

And then Christians wonder or get upset that I think Christianity is a sham... got to love the "Foremost expert on terrorism" on the one guy. As I've said before, even if I was still a Christian, at this point I'd be 99% sure the whole Republican movement is part of the Anti-Christ movement. It is the Christians after all that need deceived, not the rest of the already Hell bound world. What better way to deceive them, than to make them stand up for everything Jesus stood against, while standing against everything He stood for, all the while proclaiming how they alone were the true Christians the way the Republican/Christian right claim. As a bonus, they make Christianity so vile, it repeals anyone away from even considering Christianity, when it's most public image isn't one of love and acceptance that Jesus taught, but of bigotry and hate that is at the core of the right today. But I know these sort of people, both sides of my family are it, and they think the rest of the world is being deceived, that the Democrats practice a fake Christianity ("if you read the Bible you couldn't be Democrat, you'd have to be Republican" never considering that Democrat Christians say the same thing but reversed) and that we are clearly in the end times, which is why global warming doesn't matter, as Jesus will be back long before we can do any real harm... plus Revelations talks about the bad weather in the end times anyhow.

I 100% regret every second of my life that was wasted being such a person as these, and believing their filthy lies... and for most of these televangelist and Fox news types, they know they are lying, not just deluded, which the smaller preachers and many in the faith are.

I'd say more, but I shouldn't really watch these videos, it just fuels my anger at them, and then I have a hard time focusing on the actual good in the world.

New Rule: Trump and the Long Con

newtboy says...

It makes one wonder....what's @bobknight33 s take on this weeks total failure of another of Trump's main campaign promises, immediate repeal and replacement of the ACA, even though Republicans have full control of congress and enough votes to do what they like?
What about his promise of better health care for everybody for less money, but his bill actually offered much higher premiums (>20% higher immediately) and 24 million more people without healthcare, and those who manage to keep their insurance would find it useless since it would no longer cover prescriptions, doctor visits, hospitalization, emergency room visits, etc. Not exactly better care for less, is it?

How about the wall, now paid for with taxes, not Mexico?

How's the war on Daesh going, are they eradicated yet like he said they would be instantly with his great secret plan? No? Oh, what did the Democrats do that saved Daesh from his perfect knowledge of military actions?

Also, what's Bob's take on the bi-partisan congressional investigative committee (that now clearly needs to be made an independent prosecutor run investigation since a committee member decided to report directly to the suspect of the investigation rather than his investigative committee) saying there is far more than circumstantial evidence of collusion with the Russians and his campaign? That's treason, and this level of treason, once proven, calls for execution not prison, and certainly not just removal from office.

Is there a point where average Trumpeteers will admit they made a huge mistake, or is this guy the only one that sees reality?

Respect Trump....Like They Respected Obama

JiggaJonson says...

I know, like the repeal of this: https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/interior-department-finalizes-stream-protection-rule-safeguard-communities-coal-mining

The repeal is here:
https://www.osmre.gov/programs/rcm/streamprotectionrule.shtm

I like that rules crafted over 5 years,
(2011) https://www.osmre.gov/resources/testimony/2011/110411.pdf
(2016) https://www.osmre.gov/resources/testimony/02032016.pdf
slowly & carefully, with the input of industry leaders and in a bi-partisan way, are treated like waste paper.

B/C, fuck water, right?? Ask the people in Flynt, you can get by without it. If they're inconvenienced, it's probably just because they are liberal frail snowflakes.

That's what they get for not being born into a millionaire's family.

bobknight33 said:

Than GOD we have a better president than the ass clown OBAMA.

This Administration Is Running Like A Fine Tuned Machine

dannym3141 says...

What, did he promise to increase youtube's revenue?

Promised to build a wall and have mexicans pay for it - failed.
Promised to travel ban muslims - failed.
Promised to prosecute Clinton - failed.
Promised to get rid of Obamacare - now he's not sure.
Promised to deport all illegal immigrants - failed.
Promised climate change was a hoax and legislation would be rolled back - failed.
Promised to repeal same sex marriage - failed.
Said leaks were good and he hoped russia would leak against Clinton to the media. Then said leaks were terrible and all media was fake.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37982000

Hasn't he reneged on or at least backed away from almost every single cornerstone promise he made? Or if you want to say he didn't mean those things literally, well then he can never 'deliver what he said' by definition.

Republicans need to start asking themselves what it would take for them to even consider the possibility that they've been lied to and manipulated.

Edit: If you want to say it's not fair to judge Trump's promises because he has been opposed, then you admit that it is not fair to judge Obamacare because Obama was opposed.

bobknight33 said:

His Florida event tonight had about 9000 attendees and about 50 thousand on you tube live streaming.


Trump may brag but he is delivering what he said.

Gratefulmom (Member Profile)

Obamacare in Trump Country

MilkmanDan says...

Trump said he will "repeal Obamacare and replace it with something amazing".

These people bought into that. The average sifter (myself included) did not.

However, as someone who wants to see health care improve in the US, I think that a Trump presidency is likely to lead to things getting better (long term). Even if he massively screws up. Actually, sorta especially if he massively screws up.

These people had deductibles in the multiple thousands of dollars range. With a median family income of $16k per year. According to CNN, the premium for the standard package will be $296 per month on average. So for the people in the video, they'd pay about 20-25% of their yearly income on premiums, with another 12-15% out of pocket before they hit their deductible for any needed care. Sure, some insurance is better than no insurance, but these people have been living dangerously with no insurance for a LONG time. Thirty plus percent of your yearly wages vs rolling the dice? A bunch are gonna roll the dice.

So, option A -- a miracle occurs, and Trump actually follows through and replaces Obamacare with something that actually is better. My money isn't on this one, but if he pulls it off more power to him.

Option B -- the people in the video are right, and Trump and the GOP will lose interest in actually repealing the ACA when they realize that they are going to have a hard time actually making something better. I don't think this one is likely either, because I don't think they really give a shit. But you never know. This one would represent a slow stagnation and likely eventual death for the ACA (without any intervention in 2018 or 2020) as more and more people decide to roll the dice and go back to living uninsured.

Option C -- whatever "plan" Trump and the Republican Congress come up for to "replace" the ACA with is a trainwreck. The people in the video that did benefit from the ACA get screwed, at least short term. But the thing is ... "fool me once". Some of them would be pissed, and wouldn't forget. Some would blame Trump and the GOP. Some would remember Trump's answer to Kathy in the video -- that the ACA isn't perfect, but it could be improved. But that her Senator (a Republican) isn't talking about doing that, he's talking about dumping it.

Maybe a bunch of people get fooled again, and eat up whatever excuses Trump, the GOP, and Fox News feed them. But some will remember. And it doesn't take a whole lot to shift the balance of power -- popular vote totals are often just a few percentage points apart. I think it will be extremely hard for the GOP to avoid a major shakeup in midterms and/or 2020.

Yes We Can. Obama stories are shared. What a guy.

enoch says...

@ChaosEngine
never going to happen.
the obama administration has been waging war against whistleblowers for 8 years.prosecuting more whistleblowers using the archaic "espionage act of 1917" to pursue and prosecute more whistleblowers than any other president in americas history COMBINED.

unless there is a massive public outcry to force the executive branch to pardon snowden,it is never going to happen.

but as long as we are making a wishlist to the fairy godmother of shit-that-is-never-going-to-happen,let me add to that list:

1.repeal the NDAA of 2017,which is an addon to the NDAA of 2012,which is a simply continuation of the MCA of 2006 (look em up folks,those "rights" you claim to have are really mere suggestion due to these abominations.

2.pursue and indict ALL wall street players who knowingly engaged in fraud and collapsed the global economy.strip them of all begotten gains to pay back the american people,and throw them in the most vile of maximum prisons (hopefully with a bunkmate nicknamed 'anal destroyer").

3.recind ALL expanded powers that the bush administration enacted (thanks to neocons addington and woo) and which the obama administration actually expanded even further,and NOW trump will be executive over the most powerful executive branch in american history .(this would be a nice one eh?).

4.have the DEA and ATF actually honor obamas original statement that his administration would not pursue federal law in regards to marijuana,mandated by referendums by the citizens of those states (to which he had promptly disregarded,and raided local dispenseries).

5.reduce americas prison population(2.4 million,largest on the planet) by pardoning the non-violent drug offenders,and disallowing companies like nike and apple to abuse prison labor (slave labor).

6.stop the practice of military intervention at the behest of corporations to exploit the poorest and most vulnerable.

7.stop the practice of regime change at the behest..oh this is becoming familiar...corporations wishing to exploit the poorest and most vulnerable for their resources.

8.and could we possibly,maybe..stop with targeted drone strikes? a.k.a "assassinations". how a constitutional law professor reconciles his law pedigree with his "value target tuesday" i.e:murder just boggles my mind.

man,i should stop.my wishlist is becoming to long..and depressing.

i voted this video up because i will not ignore that obama did some good,and even some great things during his presidency,but i also will not ignore his very disturbing failures.

and there are a LOT of disturbing failures.

so i will sit and hold hands and sing kumbaya as we all remember our very smart president,but let us not forget..this very same president expanded an executive branch that trump will be taking over the reigns very soon.

and on that note,i have to give him a failing grade.

Rigging the Election - Video II: Mass Voter Fraud

bobknight33 says...

Not 1 budget passed under Obama,, Republican caved every time with a continuing resolution, Republicans caved on repealing Obamacare.. Republicans cave. Democrats don't.

Democrats had FULL control and shoved OBAMACARE down our throats. No Republican had no say.

Obama is lying Obama decisively in the wrong direction. Claimed 1 trill to implement not running over 2 trill. lower premiums, false, Keep you doctor. All a fraud and a lie.


My sister has Crohn's. I'm not fucking lying. Bitch.

The only Trump will lose is if Hillary puts a hit out on him.

heropsycho said:

It was never sold as the answer. You're flat out lying. It was never sold as that. When the entire debate began, numerous options were presented by Democrats, and they settled on Obamacare. Nobody ever said it was going to be a done deal, everything was fixed.

Said Obama on 3/22/2010:
"This legislation will not fix everything that ails our health care system. But it moves us decisively in the right direction. This is what change looks like. Now as momentous as this day is, it's not the end of this journey."

You're lying. Flat out lying. 100% Grade A BS just flies out of your mouth every time you attempt to discuss anything.

Dude, you're making assumptions I haven't gone through the process. You question OBJECTIVE FACTS! Nobody ever said that Obamacare would result in better outcomes for every single person out there. I'm not introducing what happened specifically to me good or bad, because that doesn't make neither of our cases. It's a systemic change, so it must be judged systemically. The question is did it help most people, not what happened in yours or my cases.

Of course, when you introduced your sister's case, it was so full of crap, you couldn't even make the story up right.

I'm not going to cream my pants when Hillary Clinton blows Trump out in the electoral college. I'm just going to remind you that people like you did this to the Republican Party. Just remember that. You had everything going for you circumstantially in this presidential election, and you caused the GOP to sit on its own balls, nominate Donald Trump, and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

You're gonna get spanked by the most unpopular major party nominee since it's been tracked other than the nominee the GOP itself chose. Well done!

176 Shocking Things Donald Trump Has Done This Election

notarobot says...

@newtboy: Trumps appeal to the LCD is successful mostly because the LCD has been allowed to grow so much in our post-Regan society. With inequality on the rise and decades of trickle-down government-by-the-wealthy-for-the-wealthy, those "left behind" have been growing faster and faster every year.

It Trump fails to win this go around then the pendulum may keep swinging further. My concern is that the next 'protest' candidate will be even worse than he.

@ChaosEngine:

We'll have to agree to disagree about some things. For me, as bad as Trump is, I'm not convinced that he is worse than what Hillary was revealted to be by the DNC Leaks...

...but perhaps instead of arguing about which shit sandwich is worse, it is more productive to work together to find out why there are only shit sandwiches on the menu?

On this:

"But things will never change until you fix your broken political system. You're barely a democracy these days."

I am in complete agreement.

When I first heard of the Brexit vote, I thought it was some nasty xenophobic/racist group that had somehow managed to capture 51% of a nation. But could Britian really be that full of xenophobes? It was in a bit of casual research on the subject when I discovered that J. Pie video I referenced in my earlier comment. I had to revise my first assumption about the group that voted to leave the E.U.. While there may have been an element of xenophobia involved, it was economic factors that was the driving force behind the Brexit vote.

People who have been screwed over by years of government for corporations which has only worsened since Glass–Steagall was repealed by Bill Clinton. The hold the wealthy have on government was tightened after Citizen's United.

Much of the support Trump has been able to marshal is a reaction to years of governance-for-the-wealthy-by-the-wealthy.

Lawrence Lessig's does a better job unpacking this quagmire in his talk: "We The People: the Republic We Must Reclaim" which has far too few views on YT or votes on the sift, IMO. For anyone who's ever been unhappy with the political system in the past number of years, I consider it a must-watch.


Link here:

http://videosift.com/video/lawrence-lessig-2016-will-have-two-elections-TED-talk

John Green Debunks the Six Reasons You Might Not Vote

Chairman_woo says...

There are systems other than democracy which have the kind of cheques and a balances you are referring to.

Just that not all of them place that power indiscriminately in the hands of the demos. e.g. a Meritocratic system expects its voters to earn their votes by demonstrating competence in a given field (those qualified in healthcare can vote to choose administrators of health etc.)

Democracy as we know it is a deeply unsophisticated way of attending to the problems you describe. There are alternatives that may well prove better, were we to actually try them.

It's pretty clear actual unlimited democracy doesn't work as no country in the modern world uses it. So it appears it's only the recourse to peaceful regime change that's important here, not necessarily the means by which it is achieved.

But even then, that blow off valve is usually defined in pretty narrow parameters and the political landscape carefully maintained by societies elites. Were it not, the aforementioned repeal of the death penalty and such would likely have doomed the ruling regime to be replaced by something more representative of the demos's backwards attitudes.

Hell I could even conceive of ways to just apply enough of that same veneer of democratic accountability to Sophocracy, technocracy and Noocracy, without resorting to a full blown meritocracy or oligarchy. One need only define the parameters that limit the demos in a way which demands leadership candidates have requisite qualities/qualifications.

It really could be very similar to what we have now, but with the parameters shifted to define a different sort of viable candidate.

It's already a hybrid of elite and demos, just redefine the elite and let the demos keep the blow off valve within the new parameters.

And then one day in the future perhaps, leaders will not always have to be emotionally flawed humans?

vil said:

^

Debbie Wasserman Schultz Resigns, Sanders Fans React

ChaosEngine says...

First up, bring back the old quoting system!

"I'm of the opinion that both Hillary and Trump would make bad presidents."

Agreed.

"That being said, I don't really believe the narrative that Trump would be the worse of the two; the "apocalyptic" one to elect. Trump is incompetent and chaotic. Hillary is greasy and corrupt."

Which one has campaigned for a law that flagrantly violates the first amendment? Which one has called an entire demographic of US citizens rapists and murderers?

" I think the system (which is actually pretty well designed at its core..."

The American political system is a complete clusterfuck. You have a two party monopoly, the electoral college is a disaster and then there's Citizens United.

"The DNC had a chance to put in another option that would have easily had as much support from core Democrats as Hillary, but also would have energized younger voters AND been a very attractive option for Republicans who don't buy in to Trump (of which there are many). But instead, they left their fingers on the scales and tipped things in favor of Hillary."

Completely agree. Instead of the excitement of a Bernie running, you have the "ugh, Hillary, I guess" attitude.

"So, I'll vote for one of the 3rd party candidates (I like Stein's stance on Snowden, so probably her) or write in the option that crooked DNC and Hillary denied us. Either of those actions is de-facto more likely to result in President Trump, and I acknowledge that. But like I said, I'm OK with that -- I honestly believe Hillary would be worse, and the main thing is that me and other people like me have to send a message to both parties that they need to present us with more reasonable candidates if they expect us to have any degree of the "party loyalty" that both sides expected / enjoyed in the past. This election cycle shows that they are taking that for granted -- so screw 'em."

And here we have the major issue. I have NO IDEA how people think electing Trump will somehow bring down the system. "Screw 'em"?? As in the dems and the gop? It won't bother them in the slightest.

But it will bother Mexicans, Muslims, LGBT people and em.... damnit, there was another demographic that the Republicans want to fuck over.... oh yeah... women.

Forget Trump. As much of an unconscionable arsehole as he is, look at the GOP platform for 2016:
- tax cuts for the rich
- repeal environmental protections
- an anti-abortion amendment
- oppose stem cell research
- prop up the electoral college
- ignore climate change agreements
- repeal obamacare
- abolish net neutrality
- oppose same-sex marriage
- abstinence-based sex education
- increase military spending
- the ridiculous and wasteful border wall

and finally, appoint a new Supreme Court Judge to push all this through. And THAT is the real reason Trump can't be allowed to be President. Say what you want about Hillary, but at least she won't choose a complete loon for the supreme court. Trump might pick David Duke, for all we know.

MilkmanDan said:

Points addresssed above:



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