"plant based diets (quitting meat) is the equivalent of quitting smoking".....Pretty clear to me....so does this article he produced..."The World Health Organization recently published a report that puts chicken nuggets, deli turkey slices, bacon and other processed meats in the same category as cigarettes and asbestos: known carcinogens"
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-much-cancer-does-lunch-meat-cause/

Except the report really only said that PROCESSED meats/poultry MAY be dangerous carcinogens (edit: and that may be 100% due to the processing they receive, not the meat)...so sorry, no exaggeration on my part, it's on his part.

The very definition of collateral damage is unintentional destruction/injury. The warplane doesn't go out of it's way to cause it. The goal of the warplane is a valid one, but unfortunate things can still happen.

People are absolutely better or worse beings, based on their actions or inaction. Don't sell yourself short - you're a better person for quitting smoking.
However you didn't quite smoking so you could go up to smokers and pride over them. You did it for yourself or your loved ones.

It's the same for any other choice that means less harm or improvement to someone else life. People who do that are better people.

You're really comparing the chemical reactions of plants vs the thought driven actions of animals? And you wonder why people with that attitude are called barbarians? Please tell me you can tell the difference, and you're just being stubborn.

I've never seen a plant scream and writhe in pain to try to make it stop. I've never seen a plant look depressed, or cower away because of bad memories.
You couldn't be more wrong about the way animals react to pain: Even when animals hear another animal in agony, they will stop doing the thing which they think is causing it. There have been studies where even pigeons will stop pressing a button that gives them food, and even starve themselves when they know that button also causes pain to another animal.

I grew up on a farm too, and the animals were never abused, but they were killed. There is a big difference between how the farm animals behave and how animals in a sanctuary behave - they run around like pets.

You can dance all you like, but you are still hypocritical. A war plane was never designed as anything other than a device to KILL. A hammer might have been used to kill, but it was not designed for it.

So, I am not trying to say you are less moral, I am just trying to get you to SEE that you are just as capable of making distinctions regarding your values as we are. We are all the sum of our parts, we choose moral stances and we choose to avoid others we consider to be less necessary. In choosing to follow the vegan dogma, you unfortunately have put yourself in a lifestyle that usually carries at least a thin veneer of "I am better than you", when in fact you have merely chosen to restrict your diet. It doesn't make you any better or worse than someone who chooses to quit smoking, or perhaps to only ride public transportation.

As far as winning, I have no intention of winning because this is an unwinnable discussion. I will neither be able to persuade you that you are being selectively moral and elitist, nor will you be able to persuade me that mankind should cease to partake in the flesh of other creatures (if we choose to). The most I can do is call you on your comments, you can take or leave my opinions the same way I would do yours.

I won't resort to a catchphrase like bacon, but the end result is the same, futile as you said.

Your video, Helping Your Mate Quit Smoking, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

The e-cigarettes I tried years ago when they first came out were crap and no substitute for what they have now, which has really only been around for a year or so in a convenient form. Probably there will be some decent studies in the very near future.

Part of the problem is that the drugstore stuff really doesn't work (and many are made by the tobacco companies, which is suspicious--they don't provide dosage information for one thing).

ed: Oh, and there are also a lot of people who don't quit nicotine, they just quit smoking and vape instead. Though it's too early to tell, vaping is almost certainly less harmful than smoking and may be effectively harmless. I don't know if you'd count that or not.

For me, the primary thing was that I use vaping as a means to alleviate withdrawal and to break the routine of smoking cigarettes. Smoking was just an automatic thing I did at certain times (after a meal, after a cup of coffee, work breaks, etc.). I used to always carry a pack of cigarettes around with me, but now I leave my vaping equipment at home (unless I'm going to be gone more than eight hours or so). Really, I think getting over just the routine of pulling out a cigarette and smoking it is the biggest hurdle. It's always good to keep in mind that between emotional dependence and physical dependence on a drug, it's the emotional dependence that is by *far* the more powerful.

Granted, I could have painlessly weened myself off cigarettes in a couple weeks with vaping (or gum or whatever), but I think it's probably better to stretch it out a little longer, and the instant hit you don't get with inhalation is important. Six months was my goal, and I'm at about four now.

It's pretty great really. I can smell things again and food tastes better and generally breath easier. I quit smoking once before cold turkey, but that only lasted a year. When I finally put this down, if I do relapse (which seems much less likely), it will be back to vaping rather than smoking.

Vaping is a great way to quit smoking. If you want to quit smoking, do that. Don't buy the drugstore stuff (Blu, etc.), though. Look for a shop or website that specializes in it and buy proper equipment and quality e-liquid.

I prefer to make my own e-liquid because quality control is easier buying ingredients separately (reputable suppliers will provide test documentation from third-party chemistry labs per batch). Also, it's much cheaper to make your own.

A high quality setup (battery, tank, coils) costs about the same as a carton of cigarettes. Mixing my own liquid (not hard, three ingredients, just mix 'em up), I spend about a dollar a week on that when you average it out.

Since we are sharing stories of our use of illegal drug paraphernalia, here's one of mine. When I was in high school ( all these stories should start with a variation of this opening), my friends and I took a cardboard shipping tube about 4 inches in diameter and 4 or 5 feet long and made a bong out of it. It took three good pulls to get the smoke up to our lungs . All that lung work followed by a great big bong hit was VERY effective. We named it the BONGZOOKA. It was a big hit (pun intended). We kept that thing around our whole junior year. I too grew up and quit smoking the weed, ...but.. I miss the 70s and the bongzooka.

>> ^dag:

I think you misspelled libertarian.
>> ^Stormsinger:
>> ^MrMark4000:
retaliate by not working at Walmart, quit smoking, quit drinking, eat better, AND get an education. If the place you are living at cannot provide you with the jobs you need to succeed then move. Nothing hurts a business more than money leaving the economy.

And that's a quick two points to MrMark4000 on the sociopathy test...


You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-mah-toe. Libertarian or sociopathy...any test for either would have to have a strong check for a lack of empathy.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I think you misspelled libertarian.

>> ^Stormsinger:

>> ^MrMark4000:
retaliate by not working at Walmart, quit smoking, quit drinking, eat better, AND get an education. If the place you are living at cannot provide you with the jobs you need to succeed then move. Nothing hurts a business more than money leaving the economy.

And that's a quick two points to MrMark4000 on the sociopathy test...

>> ^MrMark4000:

retaliate by not working at Walmart, quit smoking, quit drinking, eat better, AND get an education. If the place you are living at cannot provide you with the jobs you need to succeed then move. Nothing hurts a business more than money leaving the economy.


And that's a quick two points to MrMark4000 on the sociopathy test...

LOL...I am not christian. I don't believe in fairy tales. Secondly, there is such as a thing as Pro-Choice. Thirdly, who is to say that only women with 3 kids and asshole husbands work at Walmart. You are acting more like the Christian with your terrible logic. >> ^dag:

Yeah, screw her for making a bad decision and then trying to support her kids. Onward Christian soldiers.>> ^MrMark4000:
I don't recall forcing her to have 3 kids with an A-hole! lol.
>> ^dag:
Sure great idea. Tell the single mom whose alcoholic husband left her with 3 kids, to quit working at Walmart. Genius idea - you've obviously got it all figured out. >> ^MrMark4000:
retaliate by not working at Walmart, quit smoking, quit drinking, eat better, AND get an education. If the place you are living at cannot provide you with the jobs you need to succeed then move. Nothing hurts a business more than money leaving the economy.

I don't recall forcing her to have 3 kids with an A-hole! lol.

>> ^dag:

Sure great idea. Tell the single mom whose alcoholic husband left her with 3 kids, to quit working at Walmart. Genius idea - you've obviously got it all figured out. >> ^MrMark4000:
retaliate by not working at Walmart, quit smoking, quit drinking, eat better, AND get an education. If the place you are living at cannot provide you with the jobs you need to succeed then move. Nothing hurts a business more than money leaving the economy.