Lord you just love clinging to nothingness.

Here Just look at you failed POTUS and ponder that. That whats matter,

Biden is a failed POTUS.
Clear as day.
Bidenomics has failed. You just can admit it.

even if true (its not) its been over one year into the war and that's your rallying cry?! after losing tens of thousands of orcs you got 1 city? a city that is now in complete ruins? hahahahahaha

bewb you loser-just like your garbage homeland. gonna get surrounded by NATO and sanctioned into nothingness. cant wait to see ruzzia get broken into pieces AGAIN. mess with the west and you lose! ruzzia too dumb to learn.

I totally understand the woman who outright bursts into tears. NYC can be a lonely, alienating place. You close down to live there. If you're friendless and alone, if your entire world is a studio in Brooklyn, if you feel like a spec of nothingness and that your life is stripped of all higher meaning, imagine what it would be like to feel human contact again with a simple act of joy and kindness. For one second, she was a human being again. For one second, she saw the light of man's humanity and empathy towards others. For one second, she mattered.

Simple acts of joy and random act of kindness.

Not to resurrect an extremely old thread, but I happened to stumble upon this old clip, and after having read some of the comments, felt compelled to say this about Hell: that it basically invalidates its own existence insofar as 'nothingness' can be a place.

First, we recall that the Bible makes numerous references to God being omnipresent and omnibenevolent.
Second, as discussed above, we see that Christian dogma says Hell is the absence of God (and His love, since for all intents and purposes they're the same thing, being all-good and everywhere).
So, that means that Hell is a place where God isn't, and God is in every possible place simultaneously, the old throwbacks to pantheism. Therefore, Hell is nothingness.

As an atheist, I think that when I die, my consciousness goes into 'nothingness' anyway- so there's essentially no difference for me in dying and going to Hell and dying in a universe without God.

I went through that and suffered under a depression of knowing it, but then i underwent a brand new realisation when i was studying physics. The realisation that in actual fact, nobody on Earth has ever had a better idea about what happens when you die than anybody else. There's no experienced or authoritative perspective on that. It occurred to me because i asked the smartest man i know where he thought existence came from and he said "ask a philosopher".

Everyone's thoughts on it are either an imaginative guess (with no view point being better than the other) or a so-called educated guess based on the laws of physical reality. Well, the laws of physical reality only explain what we can observe (by definition) and furthermore at least some laws have been broken in unusual situations (where did everything appear from/happen from if there is energy conservation in the universe?). Not necessarily an educated guess in other words.

I recognise the way you talk about your 'realisation' with an air of finality, as though you have truly found the final answer. But i ask you, because i have spent my life wondering and years studying - what do you really know about what happens or why we are here?

I think it is equally likely to be a non-existence as it is to be an obscure, impossible to understand, trans-humanist wet dream. Literally anything is possible, and the only reason we limit ourselves to "god" or "nothingness" is because we're so used to waking up and seeing this undeniably weird and wonderful reality that we one day found ourselves existing in. I put it to you that it would be no more remarkable or unlikely to find ourselves in a second, entirely different kind of reality afterwards.

I'll say one thing about "nothingness"... It's that it may not "exist" (like it's a tangible object, heh) or have ever existed, except as an idea within our minds.

The reason I say this, is that for now it looks like the closest we get to "nothingness" is a Universe (or even before the Universe came into being) there was/is something called the Quantum Foam. In fact this may have been the way the Universe was created (there is a great video on here that talks about this topic). If I find that video I'll link it here.

When I was done dying my conscience regained
So I began my struggle a nothingness strained
Out a flash made of time my new form blasted out
And it startled me so and I burst out a shout
At which my legs ran frantic like birds from a nest
And I ran until drained leaving no choice but rest
So I fell asleep softly at the edge of a cave
But I should have gone in deeper but I'm not so brave
And like that I was torn out and thrown in the sky
And I said all my prayers because surely I'll die
As I crashed down and smashed into earth, into dirt
How my skin did explode leaving only my shirt
But from shirt grew a tree and then tree grew a fruit
And I became the seed and that seed was a brute
And I clawed through the ground with my roots and my leaves
And I tore up the shirt and I ate up the sleeves
And they laughed out at me and said "what is your plan?"
But their question was foreign I could not understand
When then suddenly I'm ripped up and placed into a mouth
And it swallowed me down at which time I head south
So I said
Hey ya ya
Hey ya ya
Hey ya ya
Hey hey hey

Well I woke up to see them, these two mighty steeds
With their mouths grinning wildly expressing my needs
As they stood there above me, being flanked on each side
I felt no need to fear them, no reason to hide
So I reached up to touch but they faded too soon
Yet their mouths still remained and stacked up towards the moon
How that ladder of mouth waved so soft in the night
And I looked up in awe at that beautiful sight
And I dreamt about climbing into the night sky
But I knew had I touched them they'd mouth back 'bye bye'
So I got up and walked down the path in the dark
And there deep in the distance my eye caught a spark
Of a crab twice my size with incredible strength
Oh it greeted me kindly and then we all drank
And we drooled out together right onto the ground
And the ocean grew up quickly right up all around
And the earth looked at me and said "wasn't that fun?"
And I replied "I'm sorry if I hurt anyone"
And without even thinking cast me into space
But before she did that she wiped off my own face
She said better luck next time don't worry so much
Without ears I couldn't hear I could just feel the touch
As I feel asleep softly at the edge of a cave
But I should have gone deeper but I'm not so brave
I said
Hey ya ya
Hey ya ya
Hey ya ya
Hey hey hey

I'm not saying religion may or may not have had an influence on him or anyone else throughout his/their lives.

What I am saying is that It sure had no influence on reality and the way that device works. It also didn't give him the knowledge or education necessary to know how to make that. In fact, quite the opposite. If he had TRULY, DEEPLY believed the bible (for example), he wouldn't even have tried. He would've simply tried to pray the blindness away, and believe that god would take care of things. And if it didn't... hey it's god's will. God works in mysterious ways right? Let's just wait to die and be carried to heaven.

But fortunately, at least from my perspective, most people (unlike religious extremists) don't actually believe. Not really. They WANT to believe. They believe they want to believe. But it goes no further than that. It's an act of fear of the unknown, grasping at anything that gives them hope that they won't simply go back into nothingness when we die.

Now, contrary to what you may think, I'm not "hating on people". I'm hating on religion. That is true. But I know how to keep that separate from the people. Shit, if I hated people because of that I would hate most of my family, they're pretty much all catholic.

You're saying science doesn't do anything by itself. You're right. It's not an object or a machine. It's a method. And thanks to it, great things have been achieved. Unlike religion. That's my point. You don't actually DO anything with religion except fill every possible void of knowledge with bullshit, expecting it to stick, even when it flies in the face of actual reality.

You said: "Meanwhile, religious people built much of what you enjoy today which utilises the scientific method as a starting point."

Just because they're religious doesn't mean religion had anything to do with it. What did, was the void of knowledge they felt, even though religion claimed the absolute truth; and the need for better lives, even though religion claimed to be the only way for a perfect life.

People didn't achieve anything with religion. If anything they noticed just how much void of knowledge there was that needed to be filled, and not with the answer: "god did it!".

You're religious I'm guessing... you didn't go into this field to try and help people because you're religious. You went to it because you're probably a good person who wants to help others, and also help advance mankind. None of that has anything to do with religion.

edit: sorry, long text

So, there is a known psychiatric syndrome in extremely intelligent children which captures some of this---the depressive thought that nothing they do can make any difference at all to their or any one else's condition in the end---and that we will all die anyway...

They almost slump into nothingness and can be quite hard to get going again.
If at all.

These are just setting up the scene's location, analogous to a fade-in and fade-out- has nothing to do with the nothingness of a show about nothing.

Buy your ticket and then time travel a thousand years where space travel is -- OMG THE NOTHINGNESS OF THE FUTURE. WHAT HAPPENED?!

@ReverendTed
I will try to be brief, because I can’t wait for the “we solved abortion” party, and because @kymbos has made me self-conscious '. There is much to be said on the subject of your tangent, but I will keep it at this:

a) nothing is “extra-physical” (or meta-physical, or supernatural, etc.)
b) consciousness is subordinate to cognition and the treatment of sensory input, as even your illustration of consciousness testifies (see also: how blind-from-birth people dream)

A brain which has never received/treated sensory input is nothing more than a muscle-regulator. I am very grateful to @Tojja for linking the Sagan piece, because I now have a great mind backing my own intuitions.


Now back to the problem of regulating/prohibiting abortion. I take your lack of response to my rebuttal of the adoption “solution” as your agreeing with me (tell me if I’m wrong), in which case it illustrates what I argued concerning the lack of pragmatism on the pro-life side. Because let’s face it, the following are constants:

a) people will have sex, sometimes leading to unwanted pregnancy
b) people will want/need abortions, whether legal or not
c) criminalising abortion (be it on the doctor’s or the woman’s side) results in risky practices, especially by the most at risk (poor/uneducated)
d) putting all would-have-been-aborteds up for adoption is abhorrent and absurd

So what to do about it?

I notice that your argumentation goes back to the whole “potential” shtick, including the emotionally manipulative retroprojection of human individuality on a ball of cells in the example of how pro-lifers think. Sagan argues against the whole “potential” thing better than I do, so I’ll leave it at that, but I do take issue with the “good comes from bad” argument. Yes, undesired kids can grow to have great lives, just as the contrary can happen. But in a case opposing an individual who is and one who might be (but is not yet), it is the former’s choice that takes precedence (yes, we’re pro-choice, not pro-abortion or abortion-tolerant). Don’t forget, many unexpected pregnancies end in chosen births, not abortions. The important thing is not whether it is unexpected, but whether or not it is undesired. It is the choice of the woman, usually based on reflexion on what would her and the eventual child’s quality of life be like, to let what is at that stage only potential become an actual human individual.

Do you ever miss what you were like before you existed? That nothingness before life and after death is all an aborted foetus ever gets, because it never reaches the stage of cognition that allows for consciousness and thus for identity. As an aside, I must admit I found your comparison between the pro-life stance and the It Gets Better campaign rather crude, insensitive and not well-thought-through at all. I’ll let you figure out why. As for eugenics, that is another debate entirely, whose crux is not “can a woman chose to pursue/terminate a pregnancy” but instead “can (a) parent(s) chose to pursue/terminate a pregnancy based on discriminatory criteria”. The difference should be easy to spot.

_{We seem to agree on humanitarian aid, so high-fives all round}

The charge of sexual impropriety reeks of an intelligence attempt at character assassination. I fear and despise the government here but the apathy is what scares me even more....Can;t stand to live around the masses who sould give a fiddler's fuck about anything but their entertainment-minus-information robot-think.

Assange fucked-up because he's fighting a machine whose governor has been removed from the flywheel...that machine embedded in the side of a granite mountain and thought information flowing freely would somehow wake a few peeps up to the gravity of its size, scope, players, etc. He's one dude, man. He should have figured that his life would be a pain in the ass after the first trickle fell from his tap. Now, he will remain most likely, vilified and estranged from participation in the game. Not a smart move...BOLD, but not to wise.

Then there's the matter of leaking information without the need-to-know to any and all-comers: Pretty shitty of you Julian, even though your intentions were seemingly noble. To departmentalize without permission well, back to the not-too-bright scenario....Dude?? Did you think that a bunch of "Talking loud and saying nothingers" having your back in internet forums could defeat or sway the masses who devour scat from the Monster Media?? Poor choice of battle plans mister, read Art o' War n try to get the gyst!!

Why hello there @shinnyblurry, we meet again (sort of). You know, it's kind of funny that while I was watching this video I was suddenly struck by the memory of our last encounter and expected that I'd see your responses to this video (and other people). Either way, no hard feelings about our previous encounters or anything.

If you can believe it, you've inspired me in a way. Not in the way that I imagine you might hope though. I don't really get into debates/arguments with died-in-the-wool believers anymore. Especially those who claim person divine revelation. There isn't a whole lot to be said at that point because most people aren't interested in attempting to falsify their own experiences. They especially aren't interested in attempting to falsify experiences that they deems profoundly meaningful to them personally, giving them new meaning to their life which I can understand. That kind of debate/argument cannot bear fruit unless something like education standards or public policies are at stake.

I'm sure you remember my whole standpoint on the god(s) thing, so I wont repeat myself, I mostly wanted to say Hi

I will say this though; personal revelations aside, "I don't know" followed up by skeptical inquiry is a far better answer and process to interacting with questions that we simply cannot, or haven't yet, verify objectively. I just can't accept that personal revelation is good enough to determine whether or not something is true. The probability of being incorrect about an experience is astounding. Humans are pattern seeking and creating machines. The answer "I don't know" is extremely hard to rest on for most humans because there is a biological need to fill in the blanks of our knowledge, and we do that by looking for patterns which may or may not be there. It was far better to believe that a predator is in the bushes when they rustle than to employ investigative powers thus taking the risk of being eaten. The studies on these phenomenon are amazing and it's amazing to see how easily humans will accept an an answer that doesn't make logical or empirical sense in order to avoid being in the position of "I don't know". It requires a lot of mental rigor to maintain "I don't know" as a placeholder. It goes against human biology. There is also less cognitive dissonance felt if investigation can be halted. When a belief is strongly held, it's fascinating how many self justification techniques are used to maintain that belief. There is a lot of literature and research that strongly suggest that superstitions follow from the urge to provide an answer rather than resting at "I don't know".

Anyone can say that they "know" because of some personal revelation, but does that mean that what they believe is actually true? Is personal revelation actually good enough?

Either way, it's all very fascinating stuff and there are a lot of books out there which cover all of the techniques that humans use in fooling themselves, to self justify beliefs, and in preventing cognitive dissonance.
>> ^shinyblurry:

>> ^A10anis:
It is NOT a choice between "god and nothingness," It is a choice between childish myth, wishful thinking, and divine slavery based upon brain washing and fear, or the choice of reality, based upon logic, free thought, education and common sense. Faith is simply faith. After all, if god existed, faith would not be necessary, he would be fact.

That's a very unsophisticated analysis, A10anis, and very biased as well. It's really a big surprise that you've attributed rationality solely to your viewpoint. Based on what? You've made all sorts of claims here, but nothing to substantiate them.
It is a clear choice between a Universe that was created intentionally, with meaning and purpose, and a Universe that is a product of chance, without meaning and purpose. What other choices are there?
Another question is, how would you know which one you were in?
Faith is simply faith. After all, if god existed, faith would not be necessary, he would be fact.
That's a false dilemma, A10anis. A couple of them, actually. Clearly God can exist and require our faith at the same time.

>> ^A10anis:
It is NOT a choice between "god and nothingness," It is a choice between childish myth, wishful thinking, and divine slavery based upon brain washing and fear, or the choice of reality, based upon logic, free thought, education and common sense. Faith is simply faith. After all, if god existed, faith would not be necessary, he would be fact.


That's a very unsophisticated analysis, A10anis, and very biased as well. It's really a big surprise that you've attributed rationality solely to your viewpoint. Based on what? You've made all sorts of claims here, but nothing to substantiate them.

It is a clear choice between a Universe that was created intentionally, with meaning and purpose, and a Universe that is a product of chance, without meaning and purpose. What other choices are there?

Another question is, how would you know which one you were in?

Faith is simply faith. After all, if god existed, faith would not be necessary, he would be fact.

That's a false dilemma, A10anis. A couple of them, actually. Clearly God can exist and require our faith at the same time.