Agree that we disagree then.
I say statements about races are racist, since they are being divisionary by race. I say not all discrimination is discrimination against the target, but all discrimination is discrimination.
'Cry me a river' is not the same thing. If I heard him say 'little girls are all worthless bitches' but he really said 'some people think little girls are all worthless bitches, but they aren't' I would still think him a jerk for saying the offensive word to a little girl. I think that's closer to the topic. When a single word is the offensive remark, not the entire statement, context means less, and certainly not all.
When Mark Twain did it, yes it was racist, intentionally so, but also reflective of reality, so not wrong of him to portray racism as it existed.
As I said, most people tolerate a low level of racism, and intent also colors their response quite a bit. Because it's tolerable, even palatable, doesn't make a statement not racist.
Pryor was hilarious, and racist as shit! As I said, I think comedians get a 'pass' for being racist (EDIT: by which I mean SAYING racist jokes, not actually being racists) if they're funny enough. You are free to disagree, but you won't convince me his humor wasn't racist, not ever. That didn't make it not funny, or make him a bad person, it made him a comedian that used racism to expose and ridicule racism, as I see it. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you need him to be completely non-racist (a 1 on my earlier scale), then it's a big problem.
I don't need that from anyone, I just wish for a reasonable, non-hateful, non discriminatory (against people) level of racism from those around me (although even that can still be harmful, I know, but people are never perfect and I don't expect them to be).
Yes, I've heard people say that they would 'kill somebody', and didn't think they meant it. I tend to try and avoid those kinds of people, or at least correct them, as the unedited excessive anger is a sign of a lack of restraint. I wouldn't think them homicidal, anymore than I expect Pryor at a militant black panther rally, but I would think of them as lacking restraint and so possibly dangerous (at least somewhat unpredictable), just as I see Pryor as somewhat racist (ever hear him riff about honkeys? Hilarious...and SO racist!)

EDIT: BTW, Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman did a great episode about racism recently where they explained how even jokes between friends not meant or taken seriously can actually still tint how your subconscious sees race...making you (and those exposed) slightly subconsciously racist a little more each time you are exposed to negative portrayals, even when you know they aren't serious or realistic portrayals. It was a great and informative episode, I highly recommend it.

I'm not thinking in binary. There's gray area.

There's no debate about the fact that virtually everyone is somewhat racist. This isn't a debate about that.

I'm saying making any joke that is related to race isn't racist every single time, just as avoiding saying anything that could be construed as racist doesn't mean you're absolved of being a racist.

A joke that is actually racist is expressing an idea or feeling of one race's superiority over another directly or indirectly through humor.

Ironically making racial statements that I absolutely don't believe is NOT racist because I'm not expressing racial superiority. I'm pointing out the idiocy of racism and poking fun at racists.

About the random black person overhearing my joking, yeah, they'd be offended. Thank you for making my point. They'd be offended precisely because they heard those words out of context.

If you saw a grown man say this to a little girl sternly:

"...go cry me a river..."

You might be inclined to think he was acting like a jerk to her. But what if you had heard....

"It's a figure of speech. If you ever for example hear someone say 'go cry me a river', they don't actually mean one person's tears can be that much water."

It's the SAME THING. That man did nothing wrong, but you heard him say 'go cry me a river' to a little girl without context, it may look bad, when it's not.

Just because someone may get offended by hearing something out of context, it is not automatically something wrong with what that person said.

Even the dreaded N-word... Are you telling me that it was wrong and racist for Mark Twain to use it in The Adventures of Huckleberry Fin?

The one thing I would agree with you is that you also have to be mindful of context before saying the joke. Those racial jokes I make? I'm not going to say those in situations where there's a high likelihood that those statements could be overheard and misinterpreted. If I wanted to tell those to a black person, I'd make REALLY sure they knew I didn't actually believe the racial statement.

And you know what? Usually, it turns out fine. I've played that Louis CK thing for a black friend of mine, but I laid down the context first that it's Patrice O'Neal, etc. And they laughed hysterically at it.

Richard Pryor is considered by most comics as being a pioneer in using comedy to shed light and provide insights into racial tensions, etc., and actually is credited by many people far beyond just comedians to have helped further the cause of fighting against racism.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5048430

His use of the N-word wasn't racist. The use of the word was communicating that he was not Bill Cosby, not that there was anything wrong with Cosby's comedy, but it was to signal that he was talking more about reality, including the rough edges especially about racial topics, and there wasn't anything wrong with that either.

The kill somebody thing. You ever seen someone say something like, "My roommate AGAIN left all the lights on! I'm gonna kill him!"? My point there is you shouldn't call the cops because you think he's homicidal.

Holy heck. I haven't been active on this site in like 3 years.!

But somehow I ended up clicking thru the "Cake-day" notification and what do I see?

Mind-numbing denialism & illogical double standards.

Was it Mark Twain who say NOT to argue with stupid people, because they'll "drag you down to their level & beat you with experience"?

Screw it, the cognitive dissonance is too much to bear.

So now I'm back [from outer & inner space] to deliver this:

Stop arguing about which corrupt body of political hacks are "better".

Focus on the fact the BOTH Bush Obama and all presidents after will continue to erode any protections you hold dear.

No matter which political ideology you subscribe to.
Sheesh!

Gotta love Krugman.. not as an economist but as a world class hypocrite rivaling Molière's Tartuffe. He's getting paid $25,000 a month to do zero work, while calling for the end of income inequality. <scoff> I wonder if he's ready to give up 70% of that to the federal government like he says all "wealthy" ought to do.

The headline might as well read, "Rich economist constantly holds forth on the evils of income inequality, while...." You get the point. Here's the back-of-the-envelope math on his recent windfall:

Not counting the $20,000 in non-transferable travel budget, moving bennies, etc. that they offered him, CUNY is paying Dr. Krugman a nine-month salary of $225,000. I presume he won't be working summer semesters, so let's say that's all his salary from CUNY for the year. Now normal tenured senior professors at CUNY make at most $116,364 a year. Adjuncts at CUNY make about $3,000 or so per course; you can teach at most 9 hours a semester. So let's say you're an adjunct maxed out at a 3/3 load; you make about $18,000 a year for that. So if Dr. Krugman wanted, he could pick out 6 adjuncts at CUNY and *double* their yearly income, just by giving away the amount of money he personally makes *over and above what the best-paid senior faculty make*. If he were willing to do the job (*) for a nominal fee (as you may know, Prof. Krugman has another line of work), he could literally pick some lucky adjunct at CUNY and double their entire year's income -- *every month of the year.

And honestly, @radx, what did the "progressives" expect would happen? This so-called "Democracy" can never be anything other than an "oligarchy," if not a governance by "mob rule" (and sometimes a combination of the two). If "Democracy" is the "least bad" kind of state/government possible as some (like Mark Twain) have claimed, then it's high time "the people" climbed out of the dark ages and lived without rulers, altogether.

The resultant "chaos" that would ensue would not be any worse (and in fact far better) than the kind of unintended chaos that results from the centralized power structures of state governance.

------

*Which, let's be clear, involves no teaching load, and seems to mainly mean that maybe he'll drop by the office every few months to share his brilliance with whoever happens to be there. The point for CUNY is almost certainly to purchase some of the aura from his name on the letterhead

The problem with America is it's full of traitors and patriots and no-one can tell one from the other.
-Mark Twain

Satisfied with mediocrity.

What a long way we've come.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
― Mark Twain

You have been awarded 1 Power Point for fixing the embed code for Dead Pool video Mark Twain's "War Prayer". Thank you for helping maintain VideoSift's reliability.

*dupeof=http://videosift.com/video/The-Adventures-of-Mark-Twain-Mysterious-Stranger

Sometimes there is such intolerance of opposition in opinion here at the Sift. When your typical liberal Sifter decries the greed of the private sector, vilifies "big business" and slams Fox News, it is hailed throughout the ranks as a battle cry, but when bobknight33 suggests the inefficiency of government-controlled industry and criticizes MSNBC, he is bombarded by the mob with accusations of naivety, not substantiating his remarks and being a "troll." For instance, take a post like CrushBug's -- "Fucking Harper. I am glad they have spent the time and money to change the name of the gov't to "The Harper Government" so once this horrible aberration of politics is voted out we can easily identify and kill this kind of evil bullshit." This is the quintessence of unsubstantiated, ad hominem attack. Yet it is met with resounding approval and hardy back slaps aplenty, buoyed up by the inertia of the throng.

"You didn't want to come. The average man don't like trouble and danger. YOU don't like trouble and danger. But if only HALF a man—like Buck Harkness, there—shouts 'Lynch him! lynch him!' you're afraid to back down—afraid you'll be found out to be what you are—COWARDS—and so you raise a yell, and hang yourselves on to that half-a-man's coat-tail, and come raging up here, swearing what big things you're going to do. The pitifulest thing out is a mob; that's what an army is—a mob; they don't fight with courage that's born in them, but with courage that's borrowed from their mass, and from their officers. But a mob without any MAN at the head of it is BENEATH pitifulness. Now the thing for YOU to do is to droop your tails and go home and crawl in a hole. If any real lynching's going to be done it will be done in the dark, Southern fashion; and when they come they'll bring their masks, and fetch a MAN along."
-Mark Twain

>> ^messenger:

Dear all,
Stop feeding the troll please. bobknight33 is a troll, and his claims in this thread are wrong or cannot be substantiated. We all know that. I understand that "Someone's wrong on the Internet" is considered an emergency that requires your intervention, but really, it's not. bk33 has no influence here other than to disrupt threads, and it's you who give him that power by responding.
Ignoring is having the last word.
Thank you.

Furthermore these men were AP accredited news men sent there to do their job and were in no way endangering the public by doing so. Therefore your quote by Mark Twain does not apply in this situation. The tag should more accurately read "Police Abuse of Power".
>> ^DrewNumberTwo:

Meh, the courts will sort this one out. The cop was right, though, that even though the First Amendment does offer protection, it does not offer complete and total protection. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater, etc. The tag of Police Abuse is hyperbole.

I'm very happy you liked it. I almost deleted that post because I was afraid the whole thing was too pompous. But I figured, ultimately, who could argue with the sentiment..."Garfield" really was a horrible film.


In reply to this comment by ChaosEngine:
In reply to this comment by TheFreak:
Put a thousand fruit flies in a box and you can watch the entire circle of life, played out in multiple generations, in a matter of days.
Now, stand back far enough to view the entirety of human existence in one box and the objective eye will discern no greater purpose than the fruit fly. We live, we reproduce, we die. All of human evolution and technical advancement bent to the simple purpose of continuing to exist.

We are ultimately seperated from the fruit fly by one thing; a simple question,
"Why?"

The contemplation of our own mortality is undoubtedly the single factor that has inspired us to become more than the sum of our individual lives. The yearning to outlive ourselves, to defy the inherent pointlessness of existence, to deny the emptiness of the void that precedes us and remains, undisturbed, after we're gone. The human defiance of the finity and futility of life drives the greatest achievements of our species.

Humanity, alone among the animals of the earth, has taken the gifts of evolution and harnessed them to scream its answer to the empty cosmos with soul wrenching achievements of art and philosophy. Those creations of mankind that we experience as a feeling, rising up from inside us and overwhelming our minds with a beauty and perfection far greater than ourselves.

The great accomplishments of mankind that elevate the purpose of our existence:
The philosophy of Aristotle
The architecture of Angkor Wat and St. Peter's Basilica
The art and discovery of Leonardo Da Vinci
The grandeur of the Sistine Chapel and the humble beauty of Van Gogh
The feets of engineering; the great wall of china and Apollo moon landing
All the great works of the most inspired among us, who could encapsulate beauty, wonder, humor and tragedy into discrete works of brilliance:

Shakespeare, Sophocles, Mark Twain, Hemingway, Kepler, Gödel, Newton, Hippocrates, Bach, Wagner, Coltrane, Hume, Kant, Descartes, Tesla, Gutenberg, Frank Lloyd Wright...
...and Bill Murray.

Except for his work on Garfield.
That movie was fucking horrible.


My life is better for having read that comment.

In reply to this comment by TheFreak:
Put a thousand fruit flies in a box and you can watch the entire circle of life, played out in multiple generations, in a matter of days.
Now, stand back far enough to view the entirety of human existence in one box and the objective eye will discern no greater purpose than the fruit fly. We live, we reproduce, we die. All of human evolution and technical advancement bent to the simple purpose of continuing to exist.

We are ultimately seperated from the fruit fly by one thing; a simple question,
"Why?"

The contemplation of our own mortality is undoubtedly the single factor that has inspired us to become more than the sum of our individual lives. The yearning to outlive ourselves, to defy the inherent pointlessness of existence, to deny the emptiness of the void that precedes us and remains, undisturbed, after we're gone. The human defiance of the finity and futility of life drives the greatest achievements of our species.

Humanity, alone among the animals of the earth, has taken the gifts of evolution and harnessed them to scream its answer to the empty cosmos with soul wrenching achievements of art and philosophy. Those creations of mankind that we experience as a feeling, rising up from inside us and overwhelming our minds with a beauty and perfection far greater than ourselves.

The great accomplishments of mankind that elevate the purpose of our existence:
The philosophy of Aristotle
The architecture of Angkor Wat and St. Peter's Basilica
The art and discovery of Leonardo Da Vinci
The grandeur of the Sistine Chapel and the humble beauty of Van Gogh
The feets of engineering; the great wall of china and Apollo moon landing
All the great works of the most inspired among us, who could encapsulate beauty, wonder, humor and tragedy into discrete works of brilliance:

Shakespeare, Sophocles, Mark Twain, Hemingway, Kepler, Gödel, Newton, Hippocrates, Bach, Wagner, Coltrane, Hume, Kant, Descartes, Tesla, Gutenberg, Frank Lloyd Wright...
...and Bill Murray.

Except for his work on Garfield.
That movie was fucking horrible.


My life is better for having read that comment.

Put a thousand fruit flies in a box and you can watch the entire circle of life, played out in multiple generations, in a matter of days.
Now, stand back far enough to view the entirety of human existence in one box and the objective eye will discern no greater purpose than the fruit fly. We live, we reproduce, we die. All of human evolution and technical advancement bent to the simple purpose of continuing to exist.

We are ultimately seperated from the fruit fly by one thing; a simple question,
"Why?"

The contemplation of our own mortality is undoubtedly the single factor that has inspired us to become more than the sum of our individual lives. The yearning to outlive ourselves, to defy the inherent pointlessness of existence, to deny the emptiness of the void that precedes us and remains, undisturbed, after we're gone. The human defiance of the finity and futility of life drives the greatest achievements of our species.

Humanity, alone among the animals of the earth, has taken the gifts of evolution and harnessed them to scream its answer to the empty cosmos with soul wrenching achievements of art and philosophy. Those creations of mankind that we experience as a feeling, rising up from inside us and overwhelming our minds with a beauty and perfection far greater than ourselves.

The great accomplishments of mankind that elevate the purpose of our existence:
The philosophy of Aristotle
The architecture of Angkor Wat and St. Peter's Basilica
The art and discovery of Leonardo Da Vinci
The grandeur of the Sistine Chapel and the humble beauty of Van Gogh
The feets of engineering; the great wall of china and Apollo moon landing
All the great works of the most inspired among us, who could encapsulate beauty, wonder, humor and tragedy into discrete works of brilliance:

Shakespeare, Sophocles, Mark Twain, Hemingway, Kepler, Gödel, Newton, Hippocrates, Bach, Wagner, Coltrane, Hume, Kant, Descartes, Tesla, Gutenberg, Frank Lloyd Wright...
...and Bill Murray.

Except for his work on Garfield.
That movie was fucking horrible.

The Twain quote that I have on my business card:

"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination is out of focus.">> ^Auger8:

Ok I obviously can't show you a video as this man died before the invention of video but Mark Twain had a very thick southern accent but was one of the smartest men to ever be born in the south. Here's my proof.
All generalizations are false, including this one.
Mark Twain
A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.
Mark Twain
Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often.
Mark Twain
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain
Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Mark Twain
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
Mark Twain
I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell - you see, I have friends in both places.
Mark Twain
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
Mark Twain
It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.
Mark Twain
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native criminal class except Congress.
Mark Twain
It is not best that we should all think alike; it is a difference of opinion that makes horse races.
Mark Twain
It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.
Mark Twain
Laws control the lesser man... Right conduct controls the greater one.
Mark Twain
Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul.
Mark Twain
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Mark Twain
The Christian's Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same, but the medical practice changes.
Mark Twain
The educated Southerner has no use for an 'R', except at the beginning of a word.
Mark Twain
The most interesting information comes from children, for they tell all they know and then stop.
Mark Twain
The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice.
Mark Twain
There are times when one would like to hang the whole human race, and finish the farce.
Mark Twain
We Americans... bear the ark of liberties of the world.
Mark Twain
We have the best government that money can buy.
Mark Twain
What is the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector? The taxidermist takes only your skin.
Mark Twain
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain
Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved.
Mark Twain
A man ahead of his time and the smartest southerner I know. But I let the sift be the judge of that.

>> ^spoco2:
Holy crap that is an amazing level of stupidity.
Such a hate filled women. Hate for people who are smarter than her. Hate for people who are different to her.
Wow.
Now, here's a question for the sift. Can someone point me to a video of someone speaking with that accent and saying something of intelligence? Because I can only think 'STUPID BIGOT!' whenever I hear that accent, and that can't be correct, there must be smart people in the areas that have that accent.

Ok I obviously can't show you a video as this man died before the invention of video but Mark Twain had a very thick southern accent but was one of the smartest men to ever be born in the south. Here's my proof.

All generalizations are false, including this one.
Mark Twain

A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.
Mark Twain

Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often.
Mark Twain

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain

Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Mark Twain

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
Mark Twain

I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell - you see, I have friends in both places.
Mark Twain

I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
Mark Twain

It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.
Mark Twain

It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native criminal class except Congress.
Mark Twain

It is not best that we should all think alike; it is a difference of opinion that makes horse races.
Mark Twain

It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.
Mark Twain

Laws control the lesser man... Right conduct controls the greater one.
Mark Twain

Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul.
Mark Twain

Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Mark Twain

The Christian's Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same, but the medical practice changes.
Mark Twain

The educated Southerner has no use for an 'R', except at the beginning of a word.
Mark Twain

The most interesting information comes from children, for they tell all they know and then stop.
Mark Twain

The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice.
Mark Twain

There are times when one would like to hang the whole human race, and finish the farce.
Mark Twain

We Americans... bear the ark of liberties of the world.
Mark Twain

We have the best government that money can buy.
Mark Twain

What is the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector? The taxidermist takes only your skin.
Mark Twain

When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain

Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved.
Mark Twain

A man ahead of his time and the smartest southerner I know. But I let the sift be the judge of that.


>> ^spoco2:

Holy crap that is an amazing level of stupidity.
Such a hate filled women. Hate for people who are smarter than her. Hate for people who are different to her.
Wow.
Now, here's a question for the sift. Can someone point me to a video of someone speaking with that accent and saying something of intelligence? Because I can only think 'STUPID BIGOT!' whenever I hear that accent, and that can't be correct, there must be smart people in the areas that have that accent.