@GeeSussFreeK and @smooman (quoting doesn't work)

Eternal damnation and hellfire are inventions of the character of Jesus (some of the more explicit examples: Mt. 10:28, Mt. 25:41, Mt. 25:46, Mk 9:47-48, Lk 10:15, Lk. 12:5, etc., not counting all the parables where "bad fruit/branches" are cast into "unquenchable fire").

One main point of departure between Christianity and Judaism is hell.

Some good online tools for Bible "study":

http://www.biblegateway.com/
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

@bareboards2: The warning the officer issues as the video starts is that they are not allowed to dance in the memorial. If they had been doing something else, something worse, I imagine he would have said so. The evidence suggests to me that dancing was all they did.

@d3n4l1: Inappropriate is not the same as illegal. We don't need to imprison everyone we disagree with; sometimes we can just think they're assholes and move on. I wouldn't have any problem at all with people slow dancing as the one couple was shown doing. If they were to break out in choreographed line dancing, Backstreet Boys style, that might be a little irritating. It's hard to even say it would be inappropriate at a Jefferson memorial. Let's keep it in perspective; we're talking about a member of the Hellfire Club here.

@Shepppard: How would you suggest I go about protesting protest permits?

>> ^kceaton1:

Fox News is in the U.K. now?


Has been for years love, but it's Sky news, blech. I wish there was a god so RM would surely burn in eternal hellfire

>> ^NinjaInHeat:

Shiny, lets assume for a moment that you're right, there is an after life, mr. god will judge us when we die and send us to the corner of shame and eternal hellfire to think about what we've done.
Fine, so I guess we can at least agree on one thing: until that day comes I will actually live, embrace life with all its temptation and unholiness, indulge the devil's ways and blaspheme my ass off, live, love, fuck, drink, hate, whatever the fuck I can get away with. And you, you sad little person, when that day comes you'll be as sad as you are today, you and the countless others who are an affront to life it self. And y'know what? I'll pick hellfire with the likes of Hitchens over your divine garden of twats any day.


I'm glad we could get all of this out in the open. Yes, you're free to do whatever you want. Like any other slack jawed yokel idiot, you can live life the charlie sheen way, shallowly indulging yourself in all the puerile tripe you identify with a winning lifestyle. But, as I mentioned earlier sin isn't allowed in Heaven. It will be plucked out like it never existed. All those who delight in wickedness will be punished for it so that is what you have to look forward to if you don't repent.

As far as being "an affront to life itself", I support life, I love life. It's people like you who think they're entitled to do any fucked up thing they'd like..ie, if it feels good do it, who are ruining society. People with no scruples or charity, characterized mainly by their lack of tolerance and narrow mindedness. People who enjoy sinning, get some sort of rush out of it. Well, it's an ugly thing you do, to yourself and to others. It's a shittier world that you create. So don't be surprised when you get shit in return.

In reply to this comment by NinjaInHeat:
Shiny, lets assume for a moment that you're right, there is an after life, mr. god will judge us when we die and send us to the corner of shame and eternal hellfire to think about what we've done.

Fine, so I guess we can at least agree on one thing: until that day comes I will actually live, embrace life with all its temptation and unholiness, indulge the devil's ways and blaspheme my ass off, live, love, fuck, drink, hate, whatever the fuck I can get away with. And you, you sad little person, when that day comes you'll be as sad as you are today, you and the countless others who are an affront to life it self. And y'know what? I'll pick hellfire with the likes of Hitchens over your divine garden of twats any day.

Shiny, lets assume for a moment that you're right, there is an after life, mr. god will judge us when we die and send us to the corner of shame and eternal hellfire to think about what we've done.

Fine, so I guess we can at least agree on one thing: until that day comes I will actually live, embrace life with all its temptation and unholiness, indulge the devil's ways and blaspheme my ass off, live, love, fuck, drink, hate, whatever the fuck I can get away with. And you, you sad little person, when that day comes you'll be as sad as you are today, you and the countless others who are an affront to life it self. And y'know what? I'll pick hellfire with the likes of Hitchens over your divine garden of twats any day.

Their central argument was that it is wrong to impute the harshest condemnation possible on a person when you know next to nothing about them. In other words - exactly what I said...


Actually, no, I dont think that was their point at all, They are saying its wrong because he does he knows next to nothing about WHY he believes what he believes. Let me put it this way: If we are to take the bible to be true, then obviously things are not looking up for us atheists, right? Now, blabbering about hellfire and so on might not be the most productive, and certainly not the nicest thing you can do to us, and its probably not what Jesus would have done, fine. We agree so far. But then there is Mark: Heres my guesses as to some of the stuff he believes:

He believes Jesus is the son of God
He believes Jesus died for all our sins
He believes we must repent to Jesus/God
He believes Jesus will forgive you if you do.
He Believes Jesus will come back to judge the living and the dead
He believes, that if you dont believe in Jesus or god, and blaspheme and sin and whatever, you will not get into heaven

Now, if Mark really, really believes all this (after all, it is the central theme of Christianity) Then I completely understand Mark if he wants to warn atheists about the perils they face if they keep up their disbelief, After all why shouldnt he? if the bible really IS true, I really hope someone warns me in time, seriously! The way it looks now is that I'm surfing the lake of fire before even the white tunnel appears.

But you see the problem is, there isnt a shred of evidence to suggest any of that nonsense is true, I might as well bet all my money(as if i had any) on Kim Jong Il to win the PGA Tour, after all, according to North Korean sources ( a country way ahead of the bronze age middle east, by the way) The fat little bastard had no less than 5 hole-in-ones in his first round of golf.

Big A, little A, bouncing B
The cats in the cupboard but it can't catch me.

External control are you gonna let them get you?
Do you wanna be a prisoner in the boundaries they set you?
You say you want to ba yourself, by christ do you think they'll let you?
They're out to get

Hello, hello, hello, this is the Lord God, can you hear?
Hellfire and damnation's what I've got for you down there
On earth I have ambassadors, archbishop, vicar, pope
We'll blind you with morality, you'd best abandon any hope,
We're telling you you'd better pray cos you were born in sin
Right from the start we'll build a cell and then we'll lock you in
We sit in holy judgement condemning those that stray
We offer our forgiveness, but first we'll make you pay

Hello, hello, hello, now here's a massage from your queen
As figurehead of the status quo I set the social scene
I'm most concerned about my people, I want to give them peace
So I'm making sure they stay in line with my army and police
My prisons and my mental homes have ever open doors
For those amongst my subjects who dare to ask for more
Unruliness and disrespect are things I can't allow
So I'll see the peasants grovel if they refuse to bow

Palaces for kings and queens, mansions for the rich
Protection for the wealthy, defence of privilege
They've learnt the ropes through history, engaged in civil war
Fighting for the ruling classes in their battle against the poor
Round every other corner stands 1984
Guardian of the future, they will implement the law
He's there as a grim reminder that no matter what you do
Big brothers system's always there with his beady eyes on you
From God to local police, in home and street and school
They've got your name and number while you've just got their rule
We've got to look for methods to undermine those powers
It's time to change the tables. The future must be ours

Be exactly who you want to be, do what you want to do
I am he and she is she but you're the only you
No one else has got your eyes to see the things you see
It's up to you to change your life and my life's up to me
The problems that you suffer from are problems that you make
The shit we have to climb through is the shit we choose to take
If you don't like the life you live, change it now it's yours
Nothing has effects if you don't recognise the cause
If the programme's not the one you want, get up, turn off the set
It's only you that can decide what life you're gonna get
If you don't like religion they say be the antichrist
They say if your tired of politics you can be an anarchist
But no one ever changed the church by pulling down a steeple
Systems aren't made of bricks they're mostly made of people
And you'll never change the system by bombing number ten
You may send them into hiding, but they'll be back again
If you don't like the rules they make, refuse to play their game
If you don't want to be a number, don't give them your name
Be exactly who you want to be, do what you want to do
I am he and she is she but you're they only you
No one else has got your eyes to see the things you see
It's up to you to change your life and my life's up to me

>> ^Yogi:

Takei says you should never tell someone to kill themselves. I think it depends on the reason though. If you're telling them to go kill themselves because they're black, or gay, or plushy, then yeah that's wrong you shouldn't do that. But when they say some really fucking stupid shit like McCance did...then no Fuck that, he should die. I would love LOVE to meet him and constantly tell him that he should kill himself. Stupid assholes don't deserve to live...period.


Like Shep said, it really goes to show that he's a better man to not stoop to his level. I remember having a heated discussion with a Jesus freak about abortion and he threw in some statement about how his religion taught him to that everyone deserves to live "even you." I told him to think about his statement: deep down he wanted me to DIE because of my beliefs and it was only his magical imaginary friend in the sky who was blackmailing him into obedience by promising hellfire if he didn't that made him get in line. His base instinct was that I should DIE for disagreeing with him. I told him that clearly he was a violent and unhappy person only governed by threats of violence from white-bearded old men living in the clouds... didn't go over so well

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Actually I think the war in Afghanistan was always appropriate. What was inappropriate was pulling the bulk of the troops away too soon. I also think that the people there are better off now than they were before. Iraq was a different matter and Obama pulled out of Iraq. So I don't think your comment makes any sense.
To paraphrase the situation; It's as if Bush made a policy that certain people should be hung suspended from cranes. Now Obama takes over and people (like you apparently) are suggesting that he immediately revoke the policy of suspending people from cranes, ignoring the fact that the fall would kill them. So Obama continues the policy for as long as needed to get people safely to the ground and he's, "just as bad" in your books?
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Drachen_Jager:
A lot of time spent on Obama for a Prez who didn't start a war.

That doesn't matter he's just as culpable for continuing the war. Yeah Obama is just as guilty as Bush...drink it in!

George Bernard Shaw : War does not decide who is right but who is left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw

I suppose it's also alright to run Predator Strikes into Waziristan, Pakistan. When Criminal Punishment just won't do, you can always call in that Hellfire.

EDIT: I was working on this comment and I fat fingered it. Here's what I wanted to say, the comment above has nothing to do with Bush or Obama. It's to do with the idea that war is necessary, and why call it a war? The last war, was WWII Korea, and perhaps Vietnam. Given that there were uniformed soldiers who weren't were decently trained.

>> ^chilaxe:

Is he surprised he has cancer? For such an intelligent person, he lived a terrible lifestyle... alcohol, obesity, probably a bad diet...


Probably not.

I can't wait to see the Christians come out of the woodwork and proclaim God's glory and the effectiveness of their prayers if the Hitch beats the odds. You can't win either way. If he dies, it's because he has forsaken God. If he lives, it's because everyone was praying for him or because God gave him a second chance to change his tune and worship him and avoid eternal hellfire.

We're pulling for you, sir.

He's also got a budgie packing a mini Hellfire missile. Cat's BEWARE!

Ok. So that shooting was justified. How about shooting people coming to their aid. Are you a combatant if you try to pick up wounded? Only the police can help them? I mean couldn't they follow the van?

ALso did you see the hellfire missiles? How many innocent people died because they think they saw someone with a gun enter a bldg. You can count in that video at least six innocent people blown up without any warning.

Also, why can't they shoot some warning rounds, then if they get up or point a gun, you kill them. WHy couldn't they wait for the police to arrive.

>> ^NetRunner:

>> I'm kinda puzzled that they say the "tone" is all it takes to declare it "junk".
Among the things claimed in the report is that there were indeed people carrying AK-47's and an RPG launcher in that crowd of people around the journalists, and that they found the weapons on the scene afterward.
They also claim that journalists are supposed to be wearing specially marked body armor, and are to have their work cleared through the military first so they at least know you're in a particular area, and these two did neither.
They also admit that what was aimed at the helicopter was a camera and not an RPG, but that the furtive nature of how the photographer was acting (tenatively poking his head around the corner, and then leaning out around it with minimal exposure) made it look like it was a weapon being trained on the helicopter, not a camera (a sense I had myself watching this video).
They also say that camera equipment alone doesn't identify individuals as non combatants because insurgents will sometimes bring camera crews to document their attacks.

The most horifying thing is watching the hellfire missiles launched from like a mile away at a bldg with maybe someone inside, maybe not.

You can see innocent pedestrians walking down the street just beofre missile hits, cause they think they saw someone with a gun.

The kids survived even though the military tried to delay their medical care and send them to ghetto hospitals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BflAj2txMVQ


Also, 39 minutes of raw video including the Hellfire missile attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU-ik