*quality *equality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by dystopianfuturetoday.

Adding video to channels (Equality) - requested by dystopianfuturetoday.

I read this a while ago and it really clicked with something inside me - my internal empathy and compassion. It feels appropriate for this sift.

source

**************

on this november the 11th I remember a veteran who has been an incredible influence on my life.
He was the man who taught me about november 11th being Armastice day. A day to remember how useless war is at solving our problems with others but how useful it is to the makers of death tools and their backers.

he taught me about the word enemy.

How so often we could more easily define enemy as a person or a people whose story we are ignorant of.
To make them an enemy it is in fact necessary to be ignorant of their stories. How easy it is to be ignorant of others by simply not asking the questions that open the doors to their world, because we should all realize how our lives have become invisible to people who do not stray far from the television or their front door to learn about our world.

no matter if it is a person or a nation of people, it is like an iceberg where so little is on the surface but what it truly necessary to know and act upon is what lies beneath that surface, what lies beneath the misunderstanding.

That is why war has to happen so quickly, without consideration for such things. IF we knew the deeper story of the people we are calling an enemy, we would not so easily call them enemy.

conversation, relationship, Understanding, empathy... these are what take time but give such greatness and wisdom to a people... to a nation of people. It is why we are no longer considered to be a great nation.
We fear what we don't take the time to know and we kill, with rationalizations already thought up before hand no matter if it is a civilian or a soldier, what we fear.

do we fear more than we understand?

This world takes an immense amount of cooperation to work. fear cuts down on our cooperation. fear destroys from within what no enemy can touch.

the veteran I am speaking about is Kurt Vonnegut who died a few months ago but while he lived, understood so much, asked many questions and shared from his heart without fear.

Posted by: lee jankowski | November 12, 2007 10:44 PM

Communism!

Equestrian!

I can shout random words too. What do I get?>> ^quantumushroom:

Communism!

>> ^KnivesOut:

Equestrian!
I can shout random words too. What do I get?>> ^quantumushroom:
Communism!



+ 1 from me... isn't that great?

A lot of time spent on Obama for a Prez who didn't start a war.

i think this is a dupe. too lazy to search for it tho = ]

is that boards of canada *music ?

Adding video to channels (Music) - requested by griefer_queafer.

>> ^KnivesOut:

Equestrian!>> ^quantumushroom:
Communism!



Capybara!

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

>> ^KnivesOut:
Equestrian!>> ^quantumushroom:
Communism!


Capybara!


Good one! +1 to you sir.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

A lot of time spent on Obama for a Prez who didn't start a war.


That doesn't matter he's just as culpable for continuing the war. Yeah Obama is just as guilty as Bush...drink it in!

Actually I think the war in Afghanistan was always appropriate. What was inappropriate was pulling the bulk of the troops away too soon. I also think that the people there are better off now than they were before. Iraq was a different matter and Obama pulled out of Iraq. So I don't think your comment makes any sense.

To paraphrase the situation; It's as if Bush made a policy that certain people should be hung suspended from cranes. Now Obama takes over and people (like you apparently) are suggesting that he immediately revoke the policy of suspending people from cranes, ignoring the fact that the fall would kill them. So Obama continues the policy for as long as needed to get people safely to the ground and he's, "just as bad" in your books?

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Drachen_Jager:
A lot of time spent on Obama for a Prez who didn't start a war.

That doesn't matter he's just as culpable for continuing the war. Yeah Obama is just as guilty as Bush...drink it in!

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Actually I think the war in Afghanistan was always appropriate. What was inappropriate was pulling the bulk of the troops away too soon. I also think that the people there are better off now than they were before. Iraq was a different matter and Obama pulled out of Iraq. So I don't think your comment makes any sense.
To paraphrase the situation; It's as if Bush made a policy that certain people should be hung suspended from cranes. Now Obama takes over and people (like you apparently) are suggesting that he immediately revoke the policy of suspending people from cranes, ignoring the fact that the fall would kill them. So Obama continues the policy for as long as needed to get people safely to the ground and he's, "just as bad" in your books?
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Drachen_Jager:
A lot of time spent on Obama for a Prez who didn't start a war.

That doesn't matter he's just as culpable for continuing the war. Yeah Obama is just as guilty as Bush...drink it in!



Yeah I completely disagree the war in Afghanistan was a War Crime in every sense. We had no evidence at the time that it was Osama Bin Laden but we demanded the Afghanis handed him over as if they had him and they asked for our evidence or probable cause. We refused to give them evidence of course and instead bombed them into oblivion and it was discovered many months later that they still didn't have evidence that it was Osama Bin Laden. Also many human rights groups who were working in Afghanistan and the CIA reported if we bombed and they had to evacuate perhaps a million people could die...what were they guilty of? That's just genocide without care.

This isn't a 9/11 Truther argument this is the facts from our intelligence agencies stating that we didn't have any evidence that it was Osama Bin Laden. If we were to allow other people that right say Cuba they would be allowed to Bomb Miami because of the terrorists that live in the United States who caused much worse consequences to Cuba.

So no Afghanistan is not an appropriate war in my view. Obama isn't pulling out of Iraq he is pulling some troops out of Iraq and he is continuing the illegal war in Afghanistan. To be honest I don't think there's much Obama could do to make the situation better...but he's also not trying he's just making it worse.

The moon landings were faked. The secret service was complicit in the Kennedy assassination. UFOs regularly abduct and anal probe people.

Pick any of the above. Believe what you want, if you won't hold rational beliefs there's no point in trying to discuss anything with you.

COMMUNISM! COMUNISMO! COMUNISME! UKOMUNISTI! 共产主义!


Did someone say obamarx didn't start a war? What about:

The war on the Constitution
The war on prosperity
The war on employment
The war on America's foreign allies
The war on health care
The war on low taxes
The war on the middle class
The war on fat kids (no, wait, that's his scary bulldog-faced wife)
The war against standing upright in front of foreign despots

obamohammed is a total warrior...for the wrong things!

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

The moon landings were faked. The secret service was complicit in the Kennedy assassination. UFOs regularly abduct and anal probe people.
Pick any of the above. Believe what you want, if you won't hold rational beliefs there's no point in trying to discuss anything with you.


Wow...ok then I guess I was trying to solve that with the 9/11 Truther comments. I'm only using what our own government is saying that they didn't know who was responsible. Even if they were that doesn't justify bombing civilians to demand someone be turned over to them.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

The moon landings were faked. The secret service was complicit in the Kennedy assassination. UFOs regularly abduct and anal probe people.
Pick any of the above. Believe what you want, if you won't hold rational beliefs there's no point in trying to discuss anything with you.


I'd also like to point out I don't believe any of the popular "Conspiracy Theories" and just writing me off is rude and a pathetic attempt to bury my opinions that are supported by facts.

The FBI and british intelligence agree the evidence is incontrovertible. Osama admitted it and he's on tape prior to 9/11 discussing the operation.

Nah, why not just throw all that out because you have a better idea.

Good man.

And, no, the war in Afghanistan was not, and is not, justifiable.

>> ^KnivesOut:

Equestrian!
I can shout random words too. What do I get?>> ^quantumushroom:
Communism!



Onomatopoeia!

It's about poverty, not social awareness, or justice. You find yourself a strungout college dropout who just quit his job. Priority number 1 is getting his/her shit together, and that trumps the gamble that they may have to do things that may cause physchilogical damage. Look at the prisoners, looks at the cynical veterans.
yeah I misspelled, but i'm not copying and pasting anymore for you snotty fucks.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

The FBI and british intelligence agree the evidence is incontrovertible. Osama admitted it and he's on tape prior to 9/11 discussing the operation.
Nah, why not just throw all that out because you have a better idea.


They didn't have that evidence when they made the decision to bomb Afghanistan that is the point I am trying to make.

Great speech, whoever edited the video went a little cuckoo though - How you could hear that speech and think pictures of "Obama" instead of pictures of "Bush" is beyond me.

No self-respecting america-hating muslim would let his "scary bulldog-faced" american wife be poltically active. Stop that, quantumushroom, you're not making sense.>> ^quantumushroom:


obamohammed

>> ^rougy:

Good man.
And, no, the war in Afghanistan was not, and is not, justifiable.


care to elaborate?

>> ^Drachen_Jager:
The moon landings were faked. The secret service was complicit in the Kennedy assassination. UFOs regularly abduct and anal probe people.
Pick any of the above. Believe what you want, if you won't hold rational beliefs there's no point in trying to discuss anything with you.



This is exaclty how I feel. Quotes and speeches like this (the vid) are just a mark of unoriginal thought and recycled rhetoric. This vid could have come straight out of the 60s.

People who buy into this crap have the Historial depth of a kiddie pool and a narrow-minded and mule-stubborn understanding of geo-politics.

People like this believe they are liberal and open-minded when in fact they're just as fanatic and close-minded as right-wing tea-baggers.


Peace and love!!!! War is bad, everyone put down their weapons, think of the mothers and crying babies and think of..."Wait....Whats that?"

Apparently Im only allowed to continue this comment in Chinese due to new regulations from the newly conquered and created Peoples Republic of America.

Somebody forgot to send them the memo about the Man and War being the real enemy.

Well I suppose Free Speech had a good run.

True, this video doesn't have much to offer for those not entirely informed. It is ALOT of rhetoric, but at least it sounds sincere.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

>> ^KnivesOut:
Equestrian!>> ^quantumushroom:
Communism!


Capybara!


Antidisestablishmentarianism!

>> ^quantumushroom:
What about:


The war on the Constitution ---BUSH JR
The war on prosperity -- BUSH ECONOMY & MILITARY SPENDING & CORPORATE WELFARE
The war on employment -- BUSH DEREGULATION, TAX FAVORS TO MOVE JOBS OFFSHORE
The war on health care -- GOP OBSTRUCTIONISM, CORPORATE GREED
The war on low taxes -- huh? It's the lowest it has ever been
The war on the middle class -- PATRIOT ACT, ECONOMIC RAPE BY BUSH CRONIES
The war on fat kids -- CORPORATE GREED AND PROCESSED FOODS


You are more clueless then ever before QM.

>> ^Payback:

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
>> ^KnivesOut:
Equestrian!>> ^quantumushroom:
Communism!


Capybara!

Antidisestablishmentarianism!


I guess you win by simple quantity of letters. Thread over.

>> ^alizarin:

Great speech, whoever edited the video went a little cuckoo though - How you could hear that speech and think pictures of "Obama" instead of pictures of "Bush" is beyond me.


Because Obama is just as bad in terms of miliary spending and staying in Iraq and Gitmo and the number of soldiers dead in the name of Empire.

Go ahead and tell me how Obama did anything in Iraq different from what Bush had planned. Including Dont Ask Dont Tell. Name one timeline that Obama accelerated.

I totally disagree with you. I get being pissed that things haven't changed enough but I think it's just that America is a slow turning ship, not that Obama has left things on Bush's same shitty course.

Specifically:

1) Obama is just as bad in military spending?

   If you're handed 2 wars your first day in office you think you can cut spending within the first year?

2) Obama is just as bad in staying in Iraq?

   Obama gave an exit deadline and plan 2 months into office. Bush just promised we'd leave over and over but refuse to gave a date because it would "embolden the insurgents". wiki. What the hell do you expect from the guy?

3) Obama is just as bad in number of dead soldiers?

   No. I'm not even going to look up stats.

4) Obama is just as bad in doing things in the name of empire?

   Bush's rhetoric was all about empire and if you looked under the surface he and Cheney's motives were allot worse. You can make a case that America has done nasty things in the name of empire from Manifest Destiny through the banana wars to the dirty wars and into the present but I've never heard the case that Obama agrees with that path much less that he could be considered in the same galaxy as Bush/Cheney in that regard.

5) Obama is just as bad in terms of don't ask don't tell?

   I doubt Bush would want to change don't ask don't tell. Obama said he will but didn't give a date. I'd assume he doesn't want to do it before midterm elections because homophobia might lose some democratic seats in congress doing gay rights no overall favors.

6) Obama is just as bad in terms of Gitmo?

   He started closing Gitmo right away: wikipedia - but Bush left a bigger mess than he thought (no records).


>> ^joedirt:

>> ^alizarin:
Great speech, whoever edited the video went a little cuckoo though - How you could hear that speech and think pictures of "Obama" instead of pictures of "Bush" is beyond me.

Because Obama is just as bad in terms of miliary spending and staying in Iraq and Gitmo and the number of soldiers dead in the name of Empire.
Go ahead and tell me how Obama did anything in Iraq different from what Bush had planned. Including Dont Ask Dont Tell. Name one timeline that Obama accelerated.


All this is way way too slow but I think this is just as fast as it gets until you convince the rest of the country to agree faster.

"Processed foods?" Now Joe, we are no longer in the Bush years, when unemployment was 4%, not almost 16%. W the half-liberal is long gone and we're two years into the illegitimate failbama regime. The results of ultra-liberalism running amok speak for themselves.

November can't get here fast enough.

>> ^joedirt:

The war on the Constitution ---BUSH JR
The war on prosperity -- BUSH ECONOMY & MILITARY SPENDING & CORPORATE WELFARE
The war on employment -- BUSH DEREGULATION, TAX FAVORS TO MOVE JOBS OFFSHORE
The war on health care -- GOP OBSTRUCTIONISM, CORPORATE GREED
The war on low taxes -- huh? It's the lowest it has ever been
The war on the middle class -- PATRIOT ACT, ECONOMIC RAPE BY BUSH CRONIES
The war on fat kids -- CORPORATE GREED AND PROCESSED FOODS

Bush had 8 years to fuck everything up big time and you expect obama whose only been in office for 2 to get it all right immediately? Wake the fuck up this aint a computer game, fixing the shit that bush left behind is going to take years.
>> ^quantumushroom:

"Processed foods?" Now Joe, we are no longer in the Bush years, when unemployment was 4%, not almost 16%. W the half-liberal is long gone and we're two years into the illegitimate failbama regime. The results of ultra-liberalism running amok speak for themselves.
November can't get here fast enough.
>> ^joedirt:
The war on the Constitution ---BUSH JR
The war on prosperity -- BUSH ECONOMY & MILITARY SPENDING & CORPORATE WELFARE
The war on employment -- BUSH DEREGULATION, TAX FAVORS TO MOVE JOBS OFFSHORE
The war on health care -- GOP OBSTRUCTIONISM, CORPORATE GREED
The war on low taxes -- huh? It's the lowest it has ever been
The war on the middle class -- PATRIOT ACT, ECONOMIC RAPE BY BUSH CRONIES
The war on fat kids -- CORPORATE GREED AND PROCESSED FOODS

Good sift - let me toss a few links in for reference:

Some of the included clips are from the Winter Soldier hearings, which is something that should really be watched. (I believe it's already on the sift here.)

http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier

The background track is "Dayvan Cowboy" from Boards of Canada.

>> ^smooman:

>> ^rougy:
Good man.
And, no, the war in Afghanistan was not, and is not, justifiable.

care to elaborate?


Happily.

How many Afghans were allegedly on the planes that hit the towers and (supposedly) the Pentagon?

How many Taliban were on those planes?

How many innocent civilians have we killed in retaliation?

How many billions have we spent to do it?

It's bullshit.

Why don't you tell me who is benefiting from our presence there?

You? Me? America? The Afgans?

None of the above.

But you know as well as I know that somebody is benefiting from this.

When Ronald Reagan "inherited" the mess that spineless anti-Semite socialist neo-maxie-zoom-dweebie James Carter left behind, America was nearly lost. In two years, Reagan's policies turned the country around and the 1980s were one of the most vibrant economic periods in US history. And all Reagan did was unleash the dynamic will of the American people, lowering taxes so people could keep more of what they earned. Government isn't the solution to our problems, government IS the problem.

In two years obamarx could have turned America away from the European model, nations going bankrupt one after the other because socialism always flops in the long run, human nature being what it is.

Instead The One is attempting to put America on the same path tried for 80 years in the soviet union. Government central planning is a total failure and communism is responsible for 100 million deaths around the globe.

Doesn't matter if you give obamarx 4 years (likely!) or 40, his policies have about as much effectiveness as trying to scrub a shadow off a sidewalk.

Blaming Bush changes nothing HERE and NOW. Government cannot tax or spend us into prosperity.

November 2nd, 2010 we'll see who's awake.



>> ^Marzden:

Bush had 8 years to fuck everything up big time and you expect obama whose only been in office for 2 to get it all right immediately? Wake the fuck up this aint a computer game, fixing the shit that bush left behind is going to take years.

@rougy
Afghans arent benefiting from being able to acquire an education (especially the girls)? They arent benefiting from tens of millions of dollars sent to build clinics and local hospitals? They arent benefiting from thousands upon thousands of man hours put forth to build infrastructure like schools, wells for clean water, and the plumbing to keep it clean and sanitary? The afghan women arent benefiting from NOT being stoned for things like adultery or NOT wearing a burka? They arent benefiting from being able to form trade unions? Their military and police arent benefiting from the training, mentorship, and equipment we've given them to help them protect their country themselves?

we'd be in agreement in most respects on the deplorable conduct of this war, but pardon me if I cant create blanket statements and instead find the good from our mess and go from there

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Actually I think the war in Afghanistan was always appropriate. What was inappropriate was pulling the bulk of the troops away too soon. I also think that the people there are better off now than they were before. Iraq was a different matter and Obama pulled out of Iraq. So I don't think your comment makes any sense.
To paraphrase the situation; It's as if Bush made a policy that certain people should be hung suspended from cranes. Now Obama takes over and people (like you apparently) are suggesting that he immediately revoke the policy of suspending people from cranes, ignoring the fact that the fall would kill them. So Obama continues the policy for as long as needed to get people safely to the ground and he's, "just as bad" in your books?
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Drachen_Jager:
A lot of time spent on Obama for a Prez who didn't start a war.

That doesn't matter he's just as culpable for continuing the war. Yeah Obama is just as guilty as Bush...drink it in!

George Bernard Shaw : War does not decide who is right but who is left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw

@quantumushroom

Really? Reagan? I see you've bought into an incorrect historical narrative, a.k.a myth, that paints Reagan as some sort of conservative/libertarian god. Allow me to type some stuff that you won't believe because you're clearly in some sort of fantasy land, but is true anyway.

The economic model put into place during the Reagan years (supply-side economics) was, to put it bluntly, a one-hit wonder. It worked in that situation, in that time, and it has "worked" pretty well until recently, though its collapse has been fairly inevitable.

Our legal tender law forces everyone to use our governmentt-issued fiat currency. This combined with our fractional reserve banking system is what allows Reaganomics to seem like a good idea. All of our money is debt. If everyone (including the government) paid back all their debt there would be no money. So, when you vastly increase the national debt (defense spending in Reagan's case), there is more money(debt) created. Banks create money(debt) from nothing when someone signs a piece of paper promising to pay the money back with interest. When there's more money(debt) in the system, it's a lot easier to get credit and therefore easier to start businesses, etc. Combine this with low taxes and corporations will invest in factories and such and create jobs.

That's the logic, anyway.

Problem is, the reality of what has actually occurred as a result of supply-side policy is vastly different. The frustrations expressed in this video are a direct result of that. Really, since legal tender law was passed under Nixon, we've had a series of boom/bust failures in our economic system that everyone's pissed about in one way or another. This includes all subsequent administrations regardless of political affiliation.

We can go through all the stuff...the 1987 stock market meltdown, the S&L crisis, the creation of complex speculative financial instruments, the Financial Services Modernization Act...the list goes on. This stuff occurred under Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush again. It's not a Democrat vs. Republican thing. It's not a Right/Left thing. Until you open your mind to realizing that, you're going to be effectively asleep.

Most people don't even know how to express their problem with what's going on economically in our country, and so you have this sort of general anger that's let out in various ways. Tea party, Obama haters, Bush haters, etc. None of that matters, though...none of these (important) social issues like abortion, gun rights, gay rights, etc, really matter until our money system is reconstructed in a way that jives with reality and sustainability.

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