I found it interesting how it started by describing a significant other pointing out your friends foibles as intentionally controlling and isolating you, then later suggests that you looking for these foibles and isolating yourself is a positive move. Telling someone to isolate themselves is controlling, telling them you notice and object to others disrespecting or abusing you may be consoling.

I also found it telling that the suggestions are "end it....or try to communicate", in that order. Sounded amazingly backward.
I feel like the writer has had a long string of toxic relationships and no healthy ones.

I've been with my wife since 92, married her in 98, we are the only people in either of our extended families still on our first marriage, so I do have some small experience with maintaining a healthy relationship.

Here's a link that includes the entire paper for you to read, it's short.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/28/bernie_sanders_sex_article_rape_fantasy_involved_in_1972_piece.html

I would suggest that before making a mountain out of this less that a molehill, people should actually READ it. (I know, what AM I thinking?)

It's actually the opposite of how it's being presented here. It questions what might make some people, at some times, think in those ways, it does not suggest that those thoughts are proper or conducive to healthy relationships, just the opposite. It was horribly written, just like most things in the early 70's, but Bernie is not running for poet laurite.

I would like to point out that there's actually nothing about children in the paper at all, not one single word....that's just been made up by someone...and I know what I think about people who make up stories to rail against...methinks thou doth protest too much. Who, exactly, did that part come from?

"IF YOU BREAK UP WITH ME, I'LL TAKE EVERYTHING"

This doesn't sound like a healthy relationship...

Watching a video and thinking(passing judgement) if someone is in someones league is just immature when it comes to relationships(imo). People that think like that, or worst, actually say it out loud, i have to assume, have no clue about what being in a healthy relationship looks like. Of course my opinion and judgement on a comment like that is based exclusively on my life experiences thus far.

I think we've been through it before. I think your point is bad and you should feel bad about it, and I didn't really want to get back into it.

You want to shelter your kids, that's also bad.

Porn is not inherently bad, although there's certainly abuse within the system - it attracts the "bad crowds". There's certainly mainstream porn I don't particularly like, like the humiliating type. That's just offputting to me. But the what I like, isn't what everyone else likes.

In a healthy relationship, or in a healthy single life, porn is used intermittently when you feel the need for it. I still watch my share of porn, but far less than when I was single. I naturally stopped watching it, because I didn't really feel like it. My lovely wife, @Lann, doesn't care what I watch. Hell, she even approves, although our tastes are different. Just because your wife doesn't like you watching porn, and that's a totally fair point I'll agree, that doesn't mean that porn is bad - it means that you guys need to figure that out. Like if your wife doesn't like taking public transportation, you could get her a car, and not claim that busses are bad.

Instant access to porn or other immediate "highs" aren't inherently bad either. Our evolutionary process is working too slow to keep up with our technological progress. We need to be able to control ourselves in the same way that we have to control our intake of sugar, since our bodies aren't made for it.

Even though you probably don't want it from me, I'll give you some advice on the kids as well. Teach them about porn the same way you teach them about action movies. It's a movie, just because Will Smith jumps a car at full speed and can jump our of a building and survive, doesn't mean you should - in the same way, your little baby girl probably shouldn't try to do the Houston 500. In fact, I recommend not to.

They way you speak of porn, it's as if it's addictive like fucking heroin, and I just don't think that has any hold in reality. I'm sure it can be like that for some people, but I think that's just poor willpower, and I don't pity that.

>> ^spoco2:

Why am I not surprised that @gwiz665 downvoted my anti-porn comment?
And with no comment as to why, no reasoning. Classy.

Nice answer. I don't necessarily agree, but if you -must- express violent impulses, I suggest video games. There's less pain involved, and a -much- smaller chance of going to the hospital or jail.
>> ^Gallowflak:

>> ^Stormsinger:
Yes indeed...two morons beating on each other. What a sport!

Your reasons for being condescending are obvious, but we must be allowed some mutually consensual means of having a healthy relationship with our violent impulses.

>> ^Stormsinger:

Yes indeed...two morons beating on each other. What a sport!


Your reasons for being condescending are obvious, but we must be allowed some mutually consensual means of having a healthy relationship with our violent impulses.

Lol fail.
>> ^gorgonheap:

Pornography is ultimately deconstructive to healthy relationships. Just about any marriage councilor will confirm this. It degrades those involved with it. Some may disagree with it that but everyone should remember the sick feeling that accompanys the first few time one sees pornography. That's , in my opinion, a God given instinct to turn away from the filth.
Yes porn is attractive, especially to the male psyche. But it's incredibly damaging to ones relationships and how they view members of the opposite sex.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'sex, healthy relationship' to 'sex, healthy relationship, issues, we are used cars' - edited by calvados

I'm in a healthy relationship, thankyouverymuch

it's illogical to propose one can control arousal effectively, woman or man.

you want a healthy relationship, which will probably include sex as it is intended: between persons who have the maturity to commit fully and understand the intensity and complexity and almost paradoxical nature of the commitment.

you want points for being egregious or something? downvote these nuts and reread what i said.

anytime its you + QM.. that should be a big hint.. about something...

i dont think you're pervs dont expect anyone to be so naive.. you do think it, and i am.

objectification is the only problem here... and sometimes....*surprise*... it may occur without exposure to "teh porn". so leave the porn alone brittany!

Skeeve, to me this statement is evidence that your perception of sex has been warped (possibly by porn?): "If his wife wont do these things with him then that is her problem, not his and definitely not porn's fault."

I don't know what you mean by this. Are you suggesting that women should consent to doing whatever a man wants to do in the bedroom? Couples have to compromise about sex as with anything else. He is saying that he can't be satisfied without doing these things, and that IS porn's fault, not his wife's.

"...a marriage in which the partners don't agree on matters of sex is a marriage that shouldn't last. This is something that had been known for thousands of years by nearly every civilization... until Christianity started forcing itself into the bedroom."

What does this even mean? And what's up the whole part about Christianity? How does that make any sense whatsoever? Christianity ruined sex or something?

If a couple can't agree on matters of sex, it's just like everything else in a relationship. They have to work it out. I agree that sex is extremely important for healthy relationships, but it isn't the MOST important thing. I know a lady who was sexually abused as a child. She remained a virgin until after her marriage. The couple soon realized that her sexual abuse had seriously undermined her ability to have a good sexual relationship. He loved her, so they went to counselors and therapy and they worked it out. They've been married for over 30 years now.

In my culture, porn is discouraged. Believe it or not, many men and women don't use it. Also, many people are virgins when they get married. Sex is kind of amazing in that if you're attracted to someone, it usually works just fine. It's as if people have been having sex for thousands of years! It's almost like it's a natural thing that people do, even without porn! It's amazing!

To me it seems obvious that if you use porn and need to fantasize about other women to perform, sex in general isn't going to be as satisfying or as intimate. I would venture to say that most people who use porn think that fantasizing about someone other than your partner is normal, even necessary. And, actually, it may be more common than not. This is the result of a diseased, confused society. It's emotional infidelity. It is neither natural nor necessary. Porn makes thousands of women feel inadequate. When guys don't use porn, their sexual partner (and perhaps some useful ideas on how to keep your sex life exciting) is all that they need for a good sex life. It worked that way for thousands of years.

...sounds like a healthy relationship to me.

>> ^LittleRed:
I'm not anti-porn; I'm anti-porn in relationships. I agree with gorgonheap 100%. Porn is destructive to healthy relationships.

I will agree that if porn is being used by one partner on their own then this can be true. If you are occasionally using it together as a special thing you do once in a while then this blanket statement is a load of crap.

Of course, even if you are using it together, if one of those in the relationship is only doing it because the other wants to, that too is not going to end well. But if you are a couple who occasionally likes to watch 'nice' porn together, there is NOTHING bad about that.

End of story, don't try to generalize yourself out of it... it all comes down to individuals.

I'm not anti-porn; I'm anti-porn in relationships. I agree with gorgonheap 100%. Porn is destructive to healthy relationships. I realize most of the guys on this site are porn connoisseurs and don't want to hear it. However, if you look at the research, you might be in for a surprise. From a 2004 Time article:

"[Psychologist] Mark Schwartz, director of the Masters and Johnson clinic in St. Louis, Mo., says porn not only causes men to objectify women—seeing them as an assemblage of breasts, legs and buttocks—but also leads to a dependency on visual imagery for arousal."

And I realize you [generalization] don't care for the site that thepinky references, but please just take a look at the quotes on this site. The last three are quotes from a book and from a researcher. I understand they're not what you want to hear, and you might think they're extreme cases - the second quote from a wife of a porn user certainly is. I have heard complaints similar to the ones Ana Bridges identifies. Women don't want to think their significant other is thinking about anyone but them when they're doing the deed. Use of pornography gets a lot of women second-guessing.

Dr. Phil has a message board dedicated to women whose lives and marriages have been torn apart because of porn. One woman: "...laying in bed hurt because he would rather be on the computer. Before porn I never found myself alone at bedtime." This is an excerpt from a great message from a women... I wish I could link to the individual messages.

"These days, if you're anti-porn, you're called "insecure" and "behind the times". I assure you it is because I HAVE self esteem that I'm anti-porn. These men are deluding themselves about what they're actually witnessing. It's all an ACT. It's PRETEND. And maybe that's just what they want...pretend sex. I have been through the whole porn thing with my ex...whom I was married to for over 20 years. I understand the pain of being lied to...and substitued. Porn IS a substitute...and if they don't think so, they're in denial about the whole thing. What better way for a man (or woman) to come home from a long hard day, and that night have a wonderfully emotional loving experience with the woman he professes to love?

...[hypothetical situation to another poster on the board] If he were the jealous sort, and his wife loved innocent, harmless flirting...yet it caused him considerable pain, isn't that along the same lines? HE would be asking her to stop doing something that *she* loved to do. Because it caused him PAIN. I just don't think these men understand the true amount of pain that this causes to the women. It has NOTHING to do with esteem issues."

She goes on, and I think it's a great post, but way too long to quote the entire thing.

For those of you disagreeing with the concept that porn is inherently wrong or bad, I agree to a point. Porn itself doesn't cause problems - porn in a relationship likely will.