Jeez. Can I have just one addiction that DOESN'T ruin every other single aspect of my life?? Just one with minor side effects, all I'm asking.

All good things in moderation. Its a shame our primitive brains our wired to gorge ourselves on the good shit because it might not be there tomorrow.

Anyway, I think I am giving up internet porn for a while. Wish me luck

When I was younger, I was a chronic masturbater. So much so that I started to become self-conscience of it, and I decided to do something about it. Every night when the feeling hit me, I would throw in my favorite movie at the time, The Lost Boys, and watch it from beginning to end in an effort to stem my problem. Sometimes twice in one night. I could quote you entire scenes, line by line, and tell you who the directory of photography was. Did you know there's a blooper when the vampires take off out of the cave? You can see the ocean waves running backwards! Hahahaha.

....I lasted two weeks.

Now I just whack off and watch Fright Night.

I here San Diego is a great place for a chronic spank-master...

Without being prudish, internet porn is damaging. And it's damaging due to just what he says, it's SO easy to access, SO easy to watch different porn all the time.

I'm a guy who used to look at plenty of porn, and I've given it up. Not due to erectile dysfunction as mentioned in the talk, but because it was hurting my wife. She hated the thought of me looking at other women having sex like that. And I agreed with her...

It took some time, and I relapsed a few times, but I don't look at it any more, and I'm more than happy about it.

There's nothing wrong with porn per se, there's nothing wrong with sex, nothing with masturbation. It's the instant access, instant change porn, coupled with the horrendously degrading shit that has become mainstream that's the problem.

I'm seriously concerned about how I'm going to protect my kids from it. It's not that I don't think they should ever have access to porn or should not masturbate... it's how to you make sure what they view is respectful, and the volume of what they view is low?

I know when I was younger I had a draw with a few magazines in it, and that was it... I had to 'make do' with the same women over and over again.

I'm going to *quality this talk as it's a real issue which is having serious relationship outcomes.

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by spoco2.

I mostly agree with you, although there is likely a way of watching porn that is more (or less) harmful than others. Having said that, I think the question is one of values. That is, what are/were the values that were instilled in you which enabled you to quit watching porn such that similar values can also be instilled (i.e., introduced, taught, nourished, evoked) in your kids?

It's a dangerous world out there, but, truth be told, it's probably just differently dangerous than it was when we grew up -- or when our parents grew up -- and it's not going to go away to "keep the kids safe." Thus, good role modeling and good values -- probably the way to go.

>> ^spoco2:

Without being prudish, internet porn is damaging. And it's damaging due to just what he says, it's SO easy to access, SO easy to watch different porn all the time.
I'm a guy who used to look at plenty of porn, and I've given it up. Not due to erectile dysfunction as mentioned in the talk, but because it was hurting my wife. She hated the thought of me looking at other women having sex like that. And I agreed with her...
It took some time, and I relapsed a few times, but I don't look at it any more, and I'm more than happy about it.
There's nothing wrong with porn per se, there's nothing wrong with sex, nothing with masturbation. It's the instant access, instant change porn, coupled with the horrendously degrading shit that has become mainstream that's the problem.
I'm seriously concerned about how I'm going to protect my kids from it. It's not that I don't think they should ever have access to porn or should not masturbate... it's how to you make sure what they view is respectful, and the volume of what they view is low?
I know when I was younger I had a draw with a few magazines in it, and that was it... I had to 'make do' with the same women over and over again.
I'm going to quality this talk as it's a real issue which is having serious relationship outcomes.

I disagree that it's about values per se. I mean it is to a point, but as he explains in this vid, it's actually causing physical changes in your brain. That's physiological and transcends any subjective rationalization. >> ^Trancecoach:

I mostly agree with you, although there is likely a way of watching porn that is more (or less) harmful than others. Having said that, I think the question is one of values. That is, what are/were the values that were instilled in you which enabled you to quit watching porn such that similar values can also be instilled (i.e., introduced, taught, nourished, evoked) in your kids?
It's a dangerous world out there, but, truth be told, it's probably just differently dangerous than it was when we grew up -- or when our parents grew up -- and it's not going to go away to "keep the kids safe." Thus, good role modeling and good values -- probably the way to go.

Shit.... Alright I'm gonna try as well.

Why am I not surprised that @gwiz665 downvoted my anti-porn comment?

And with no comment as to why, no reasoning. Classy.

I think we've been through it before. I think your point is bad and you should feel bad about it, and I didn't really want to get back into it.

You want to shelter your kids, that's also bad.

Porn is not inherently bad, although there's certainly abuse within the system - it attracts the "bad crowds". There's certainly mainstream porn I don't particularly like, like the humiliating type. That's just offputting to me. But the what I like, isn't what everyone else likes.

In a healthy relationship, or in a healthy single life, porn is used intermittently when you feel the need for it. I still watch my share of porn, but far less than when I was single. I naturally stopped watching it, because I didn't really feel like it. My lovely wife, @Lann, doesn't care what I watch. Hell, she even approves, although our tastes are different. Just because your wife doesn't like you watching porn, and that's a totally fair point I'll agree, that doesn't mean that porn is bad - it means that you guys need to figure that out. Like if your wife doesn't like taking public transportation, you could get her a car, and not claim that busses are bad.

Instant access to porn or other immediate "highs" aren't inherently bad either. Our evolutionary process is working too slow to keep up with our technological progress. We need to be able to control ourselves in the same way that we have to control our intake of sugar, since our bodies aren't made for it.

Even though you probably don't want it from me, I'll give you some advice on the kids as well. Teach them about porn the same way you teach them about action movies. It's a movie, just because Will Smith jumps a car at full speed and can jump our of a building and survive, doesn't mean you should - in the same way, your little baby girl probably shouldn't try to do the Houston 500. In fact, I recommend not to.

They way you speak of porn, it's as if it's addictive like fucking heroin, and I just don't think that has any hold in reality. I'm sure it can be like that for some people, but I think that's just poor willpower, and I don't pity that.

>> ^spoco2:

Why am I not surprised that @gwiz665 downvoted my anti-porn comment?
And with no comment as to why, no reasoning. Classy.

Teach, don't enforce.

That's a generally good idea when training offspring.

@gwiz665 My point isn't that porn is bad and people who view it should feel bad about it. I really do have no issue with respectful porn in moderation. My issue is that if you do a search for porn these days, or go to youporn or anything like that, then 90% of the top stuff is just so derogatory towards women. Women gagging on dicks to the point of almost throwing up, women having their mouths pulled open, women drinking cum from glasses, bukakke, being held down and viscously rammed... this seems to be the norm now. The norm seems to be to treat women as objects. And damn those women better have big fake tits, a bald vagina, and be fine with ass to mouth.

My issue is that the porn is 'just there' now, and for single people, it'll get used a lot, and it DOES start shaping their tastes and expectations in regards to sex. The fact that sites like this even have a need to exist, shows that porn is shaping people's attitudes towards sex and women far more than it should be.

My wife and I do actually still occasionally watch porn together, carefully selected stuff that is not degrading, but just shows couples seemingly actually enjoying sex together. And as an occasional thing, it's great.

Trying to teach kids that porn is just movies and not real is just the same as movies really. Until their old enough to really process the difference between reality and make believe, until they get those critical thinking abilities, it doesn't matter how much you tell them that something isn't real. If they see it, it will affect them. So yes, I will definitely be teaching them about how the stuff in porn should never be looked on as a way to treat women (or be treated for my daughter), but I don't want them even seeing it until they're much older and can actually process it properly anyway.

Over sexualisation of our kids is a huge problem now. 3 year old girls being given high heel shoes for birthdays (as our daughter was, and we've promptly put them deep in the dress up basket), having 'role models' like Katy 'spit' Perry informing their self view. It's shit, and is not letting kids just be kids. And too many parents we see just go along with it. Let their 3 year olds dance and sing along to music videos showing women being treated as sex objects, and little more.

What this talk shows is that there is a physical effect of watching porn as much as people do now. You can put it down to weak will power, but when it's there at a click, whenever you want it, it's a problem. And it really is changing how people have sex. I've watched numerous talks where porn tropes like cumming on the woman's face, or ass to mouth, or any number of those things that only really make sense in the world of porn, are becoming things which men and women think are expected of them, or are the 'normal' way to have sex. That's a problem, because it's taking the focus away from two people getting hugely turned on and having great sex and being more like sex that looks good when being watched by someone else.

>> ^gwiz665:

Teach, don't enforce.
That's a generally good idea when training offspring.


It's a pleasant line to spout. But in reality just giving free rein on the internet to a child and saying 'come and ask me about things you see' is a great way to have a fucked up kid.

gwiz665 you are impervious to facts. The whole presentation was one fact after another about how porn harms relationships.

I think it's safe to say that porn is never good. Just like smoking, and something tells me you have an opinion on cigarettes.

Teaching can be proactive. You don't have to wait until your child sees something to teach them about it.
>> ^spoco2:

>> ^gwiz665:
Teach, don't enforce.
That's a generally good idea when training offspring.

It's a pleasant line to spout. But in reality just giving free rein on the internet to a child and saying 'come and ask me about things you see' is a great way to have a fucked up kid.

>> ^gwiz665:

Teaching can be proactive. You don't have to wait until your child sees something to teach them about it.
>> ^spoco2:
>> ^gwiz665:
Teach, don't enforce.
That's a generally good idea when training offspring.

It's a pleasant line to spout. But in reality just giving free rein on the internet to a child and saying 'come and ask me about things you see' is a great way to have a fucked up kid.



Yes, but you also don't give a child free reign on the internet. There's shit there, even when you don't go looking for it, which is just not going to do anything but harm them.

'Teach, don't enforce' works when people are older, have developed critical thinking (which should be taught WAY more than it is in schools btw), can process things properly. Kids under 10 (fairly arbitrary number really, plonk in whatever young age) just DO NOT have the ability to process things properly.

Definitely start teaching them about things before they start encountering them, so that when they do they are forearmed, and definitely don't try the iron 'YOU WILL NOT DRINK/do drugs/have sex/beat up goats' line. Definitely go the route of teaching them openly about the plus and minus points of things and let them make up their own mind.

But they have to be older to do that. There are a number of people on the sift who obviously have had little to do with children and think that libertarian ideals hold no matter what age you are. It doesn't work like that.

You're implying that I watched it.

Porn harms bad relationships, or good relationships with bad people in it. It's that simple. Porn isn't bad. Porn can be fun.

Would you say that sugar is always bad? It certainly hurts our health, why not just outlaw that? It's clearly the prevalent cause of death in our western society.

I don't particularly like cigarettes, I think they're bad, and it's been shown quite a few times the effects it has both long term and short term. And to dot the i, it's pretty easy to see the very short term effect by sitting in a smoke filled room. This issue is also a problem of teaching, not enforcing. We don't need to prohibit smoking, we need to either educate or "incentivize" not smoking. That's soft-prohibition, but that's fine by me.

>> ^marinara:

gwiz665 you are impervious to facts. The whole presentation was one fact after another about how porn harms relationships.
I think it's safe to say that porn is never good. Just like smoking, and something tells me you have an opinion on cigarettes.

Watching it again with notes.
Single * are what he says, double ** are what I respond.
*Dopamine is released for novelty - aka new girls/guys.
*No control group, since everyone watches porn.
*Doctors thinks people who like porn, have ADD and related things.
*Internet porn is as different from sex, as video games from checkers.
*Porn is addictive, because of our built-in reward system (dopamine, binge mechanism).
*Excessive addiction, leads to brain changes (other pleasures numbed, hyper reactive to porn, willpower erosion) like all other addictions.
*"Reddit effect" constant novelty is addicting.
*He talks about a voluntary control group of people who voluntarily give up internet porn. I have issues with this.
** In people who voluntarily give up internet porn, there will often be other factors leading to this; say a wife that hates it and influence the man to also hate it. Or some bad experience might turn a person off it. My point is, that he assumes that there's only one variable changes from the rest of the people, and that's not really true, since many other factors play into it, since something caused the willing rejection of internet porn. It's not a true control group.
** Overuse of porn desensitizes the brain, stopping the use returns the sensitivity. This makes sense. This is like any other addiction, this does not say anything about whether or not porn is bad, it says overuse/addiction to porn is bad. I agree with that.

He wants us to not be addicted to porn. This does not speak against anything I've said in this thread.

Day 2... still in the game

@gwiz665

I agree that the 'control group' isn't really one, as it is, as you said, severely skewed, it's just the best he had to work with.

I haven't looked at the studies at all, but you would think they could do ones that looked at frequency of porn use vs affects. They said they couldn't find anyone who didn't use it, but there sure as hell will be big differences between the amount people do.

And surely they could have a trial where they prescribe the amount of porn watched, and types for a period of time.

All of these things can be done even without a 'clean' control group.

So yeah, it seems like there isn't 'good' data on this.

But I certainly dislike the way that porn is so mainstream, and so anti female now. If you look hard enough you can find pockets of porn where everyone in it is respected and you see her feelings and arousal being addressed as well as his, but it's rare. There's far more 'Bangbus' and 'drunk coeds' shit.

I'd love to know a way to swing porn back to the respectful side of the spectrum, so that when people did just random porn searches, more often than not they saw real looking people having loving sex.... but I have no idea how that could ever be done.

porns iz bad, m'kay

I think this has a lot to do with zeitgeist as well. The market for degrading porn is there, so it gets produced. There are different ways to quell it, like outlawing, or affecting the market in some way. Essentially, we would want to make people want the "good stuff" and not want the "bad stuff", but this is a problem with all sorts of things.

Some places, like denmark, have a "fat tax", to make people eat more healthy. You can also subsidize healthy food/porn from a government perspective. Alternatively, you need someone high in the industry that says "fuck this, we're only making good things now" like a steve jobs of porn. Heh.

When peoples' tastes change, the market changes with it. It's a shame that we're being driven towards wilder and wilder stuff, but I'm not sure what it takes to push back.
>> ^spoco2:

@gwiz665
I agree that the 'control group' isn't really one, as it is, as you said, severely skewed, it's just the best he had to work with.
I haven't looked at the studies at all, but you would think they could do ones that looked at frequency of porn use vs affects. They said they couldn't find anyone who didn't use it, but there sure as hell will be big differences between the amount people do.
And surely they could have a trial where they prescribe the amount of porn watched, and types for a period of time.
All of these things can be done even without a 'clean' control group.
So yeah, it seems like there isn't 'good' data on this.
But I certainly dislike the way that porn is so mainstream, and so anti female now. If you look hard enough you can find pockets of porn where everyone in it is respected and you see her feelings and arousal being addressed as well as his, but it's rare. There's far more 'Bangbus' and 'drunk coeds' shit.
I'd love to know a way to swing porn back to the respectful side of the spectrum, so that when people did just random porn searches, more often than not they saw real looking people having loving sex.... but I have no idea how that could ever be done.

The point isn't that porn is bad. It's that feeding the reward circuit in this incredibly efficient way weakens our ability to resist addictive urges in all the other ways.

I just passed my 7th day mark. I'm still refraining from watching any porn, but this is starting to get difficult...

The thesis seems to be 'happiness is bad for you'.

On balance I'll stick with my awesome internet harem, thanks.

I've watched this about 5 days ago, tried to give it up everyday since.... I might as well quit cigs before I try to quit this.



(Yay for my first ever comment!)

I'm out!!!

Took me 1 week and 5 days... Wasn't bad, but I was surprised to find that my mental cravings were stronger than my physical. Interesting!