I don't see where we disagree... Maybe I wasn't clear; the opinion pages and editorials in the NYTimes are left-leaning, just as the opinion pieces and editorials on MSNBC are left-leaning. The news on MSNBC and NYTimes are NOT left-leaning, just as the news (typically) is not presented as right-leaning on Fox News.

People don't blog about or tweet about Fox News or MSNBC when they are just presenting the news, they share Rachel Maddow digging into someone, or Bill O'Reilly yelling about something. These aren't the news, just as the opinion pages of the NYT or the WSJ are not the news.


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In reply to this comment by Yogi:
>> ^bamdrew:

This is MSNBC. MSNBC is the New York Times of networks... informative, accurate, and often very well presented, but with a left-wing opinion page. They don't pretend otherwise, unlike 'fair and balanced' Fox News. If you want the middle ground watch PBS or CNN (or BBC in the UK or ABC in Australia); the only bias on these networks is the unavoidable bias of choosing which stories to showcase (about international policy, about the environment, etc. can appear 'biased' but cover a topic of journalistic interest).
>> ^My_design:
Boy these guys are clearly routing for Obama ...



The New York Times is definitely not Left Wing. For instance they report WITH GUSTO the atrocities of others but not of the United States. The New York Times only appears Left because it reports some things that the US does wrong around the world, where as other papers around the planet report much much more. We are insulated from these things so things appear Left when they are actually very much Right and in support of the State.

>> ^bamdrew:

This is MSNBC. MSNBC is the New York Times of networks... informative, accurate, and often very well presented, but with a left-wing opinion page. They don't pretend otherwise, unlike 'fair and balanced' Fox News. If you want the middle ground watch PBS or CNN (or BBC in the UK or ABC in Australia); the only bias on these networks is the unavoidable bias of choosing which stories to showcase (about international policy, about the environment, etc. can appear 'biased' but cover a topic of journalistic interest).
>> ^My_design:
Boy these guys are clearly routing for Obama ...



The New York Times is definitely not Left Wing. For instance they report WITH GUSTO the atrocities of others but not of the United States. The New York Times only appears Left because it reports some things that the US does wrong around the world, where as other papers around the planet report much much more. We are insulated from these things so things appear Left when they are actually very much Right and in support of the State.

This is MSNBC. MSNBC is the New York Times of networks... informative, accurate, and often very well presented, but with a left-wing opinion page. They don't pretend otherwise, unlike 'fair and balanced' Fox News. If you want the middle ground watch PBS or CNN (or BBC in the UK or ABC in Australia); the only bias on these networks is the unavoidable bias of choosing which stories to showcase (about international policy, about the environment, etc. can appear 'biased' but cover a topic of journalistic interest).

>> ^My_design:

Boy these guys are clearly routing for Obama ...

Is Fox being fair and balanced?

>> ^KnivesOut:

Where's the Fox News clip quoting just the first part, with a big "WE TOLD YOU SO" ticker running underneath?


I don't know but have you been to Foxnews.com... are you so sure it isn't?... Though it's probably be "WE TOLD YOU SO ?" and thus be completely 'fair and balanced'.

I guess from watching MSNBC for all those years you can not decipher truth from fiction.


Fox reports the truth. Fair and balanced.

>> ^lantern53:

Why, this is Faux News...it's all made up, right?

The "debate" is inherently unfair because one side has to defend indefensible stupidity. As for what's on the air in "professional news outlets" (and I'm no fan of CNN), her intelligence seems to be only slightly beneath the average of Fox News' presenters. S'all fair and balanced. >> ^bobknight33:

I'm not here to defend her or the Pastors sermon content. All I'm saying if you are going to have a debate make it fair. Have equal intellectual capacities to present their ideas. As a professional news outlet they should have know not to have her on the air. >> ^Januari:


@bobknight33 You HAVE to be kidding... any interest in defending those statements yourself?... Devil's advocate even?... i mean ANY defense/excuse/rationalization/explination... anything? I'd really love to hear it. Or just consider for a moment the possibility that the comments made by this bigot and the folks who support him, reflect VERY well on the intelligence level of the person in this video. I suspect you'd have an incredibly hard time finding someone who isn't this stupid to go on camera and actually support them...
>> ^bobknight33:
What a poor interview. This should have been with someone who had the intellectual capability to have this discussion. Where was the Pastor, Deacon or such who could have properly defended, justified the statements from the sermon.

If she was to represent any one else on any other topic she would have been just as bad.

She was railroaded for the pleasure of CNN and its audience.
That's not news that abuse.

@bobknight33 @lantern53

So is fox still fair and balanced?

Kind of the same way that claiming anybody who points out the truth is activist.

Kind of the same way that claiming the most propagandistic network in America's history has a subtitle that proclaims itself "fair and balanced."

Did you really have to go there? Can't we just leave stupid where it belongs, with the rule makers. >> ^NetRunner:

Not all of us. There's a pretty large segment of the population who're just fine. It's mostly the idiots who think Fox News is "fair and balanced" who're fucked in the head.
>> ^schlub:
Americans are all fucked in the head.

Not all of us. There's a pretty large segment of the population who're just fine. It's mostly the idiots who think Fox News is "fair and balanced" who're fucked in the head.
>> ^schlub:

Americans are all fucked in the head.

*backup=[...snipped...]

Haven't had a chance to watch the clip yet, but I just had to add my 2¢ on this. I wouldn't describe Moyers as liberal or fair. He's progressive and his shows are definitely agenda-driven. And that's a good thing, because he's really good at what he does. The difference between Moyers and someone like Limbaugh or Olbermann is this: Moyers has thoughtful discussions on important political and cultural topics with scholars and experts on the topic at hand, with rational, fact-based arguments (which are neither infallible nor unassailable) presented with great articulation; Limbaugh and his ilk instead offer screeching opinions based largely on emotion (usually fear and/or anger) with just enough facts laced in to make any outright lies or other deceptions believable. They're all just as motivated by an agenda as any other broadcaster. The difference is the usefulness of the content and the style with which it's presented.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Bill Moyers is about as fair as you get when it comes to media. He definitely sees the world through a prism of liberal empathy, so I can see where you might find him unbalanced. Every newsperson and newswriter is biased towards what they believe to be true, and it's not really a problem so long as you are fair about it. The problem with FOX is not that it presents a far right perspective on the news, it's that they do it in such a dishonest way, and then call it 'fair and balanced.' Do you ever think how ridiculous it is that the phrase you choose to use so often 'fair and balanced' comes from the largest and sleaziest propoganda outfit in the history of the planet? >> ^quantumushroom:
For all of you that chide Fox, Moyers's trumpeting shows are nothing close to being fair or balanced, he's a mirror for liberal vanity. At least Rush does his schtick on how own dime and creates wealth, which the Moyers's of the world then siphon away for who-knows-what.>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Probably not, but do you notice how calm, reasoned and intelligent his show is? Why is it, do you think, that publicly funded media is so vastly superior to privately funded media? >> ^quantumushroom:
Has Moyers ever had a show that taxpayers didn't have to pay for?

Bill Moyers is about as fair as you get when it comes to media. He definitely sees the world through a prism of liberal empathy, so I can see where you might find him unbalanced. Every newsperson and newswriter is biased towards what they believe to be true, and it's not really a problem so long as you are fair about it. The problem with FOX is not that it presents a far right perspective on the news, it's that they do it in such a dishonest way, and then call it 'fair and balanced.' Do you ever think how ridiculous it is that the phrase you choose to use so often 'fair and balanced' comes from the largest and sleaziest propoganda outfit in the history of the planet? >> ^quantumushroom:

For all of you that chide Fox, Moyers's trumpeting shows are nothing close to being fair or balanced, he's a mirror for liberal vanity. At least Rush does his schtick on how own dime and creates wealth, which the Moyers's of the world then siphon away for who-knows-what.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Probably not, but do you notice how calm, reasoned and intelligent his show is? Why is it, do you think, that publicly funded media is so vastly superior to privately funded media? >> ^quantumushroom:
Has Moyers ever had a show that taxpayers didn't have to pay for?

Current TV is now on the copyright band wagon.

I have a replacement embed, but siftbot doesn't accept the iframe from current.
@lucky760 is it possible to get this to work now? Or, will I have to wait for the upgrade? Thanks.


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-for-claiming-to-be-fair-and-balanced-while-bashing-obama" width="480" height="270" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen allowFullScreen></iframe>