Lol. Bait you?! Bwaaahahahaha.
Nope.
I was hoping you would have a tiny bit of consistency and admit to yourself that any diet that includes (according to you) 350g of red meat a week (with no limit on white meat) must, by definition, not be vegan or vegetarian, and admitting that, that you might have stopped pretending they're related.
Glad I checked, because as feared you did not display that kind of consistency.
Apparently you think that's an invitation to argue that a meat inclusive "plant based diet" IS vegan instead of just agreeing with the obvious. I expect you'll continue to pretend the health benefits of plant based diets translate to health benefits of being vegan, knowing full well they aren't related at all. Hmmmm.

You're more than welcome, but I think your vote totals say a lot about how persuasive your arguments are with or without me contradicting you.

Yes, if you agree what's meant by "plant based diet" is not the same as vegetarian or vegan, and mostly denotes excluding most processed foods from your diet and including more fruits and vegetables.

Great so we agree that plant-based diets are healthy. That's amazing.

Then you haven't paid attention. I have never said a plant based diet isn't healthy, I've just said that it isn't even vegetarian, much less vegan.

Saying being vegan is healthier than a diet that includes meat is vegan propaganda, as is claiming a plant based diet even resembles veganism.

I feel like I'm making progress here, because you're finally acknowledging that a plant-based diet is healthy instead of calling it vegan propaganda.

This is an issue because some people are trying to confuse the issue to trick other people into believing veganism is healthy by pretending it's the same as a plant based diet.....

veg·an- vēɡən
noun
1.a person who does not eat or use animal products.

plant based -
A plant-based diet is a diet based on fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes. ... In fact, almost 90% of Americans don't get their recommended intake of fruits and veggies. Eating more produce helps lower your risk of heart disease, diabetes, and even some cancers. (Note there's nothing about not eating meat or dairy)

Vegan is NOT just a plant based diet (that includes moderate meat and dairy), and is NOT what doctors mean when they say the words "plant based diet". Plant based diet means less processed food and sugar and more fruits and vegetables, not an exclusion of all meat and animal products.

Vegan doesn't equate to more natural or better for you, only lacking animal products.....E.g.. Oreos are vegan, but they are not part of a plant based diet.

No, that's not even vegetarian, certainly not even close to vegan. Educated doctors know the difference, and any who are the least bit confused should be completely ignored because they have less health knowledge than you get from 3rd grade health class, or they are liars.

So you agree, they're liars, pretending their focus is your health when it's clearly only about animal health.

Really? Eating just under 1 lb (350g) of red meat a week is Vegan to you!? Lol! I guess I'm vegan then, a leather wearing, red and white meat eating, insect and gopher killing vegan. There's no limit for chicken or fish either! Wow, veganism has sure changed in the last few weeks....or perhaps you're just talking out of your ass.

Sounds to me like most doctors include large amounts of meat and dairy in that plant based diet you're so fond of pushing as vegan.

If just under 1lb red meat a week = plant based diet=vegan, all these benefits you mention should be realized today for almost everyone, because most meat eating people eat less red meat than that.
Edit: had my numbers wrong, that's less than 1 lb red meat a week, not 3. Still not vegan by far though.

He used the PCRM's own words to show them as liars, not industry hit pieces. Pretty hard to say they're honest about their goals and intentions when their own tax filings prove they aren't.

@transmorpher I'm all about a plant based diet as i was on one for a couple years. Healthiest mind and body i've ever been. That however is not what i think of when i hear vegan diet and for sure is not what many vegans diets are based on. I've known vegans in my past. Most all of them ate a horribly unhealthy diet. If they mean plant based diet they should say that, as it's not what the public thinks vegan means.


(edit) Also "Eat to Live" best book i ever read when it comes to my dietary health.

I understand how you've come to your conclusion, but let me clear it up:

The word 'vegan' in medicine is exchangeable with plant-based diet. If you look at the PCRM.org they recommend a whole-foods plant-based diet. They simply call it vegan, as that's what other organisations know it as, such as the British/American Dietetics Association. Clearly not recommending vegan icecream and hotdogs :-)

When it comes to prevention of cruelty to animals, the PCRM do it from a medical training/testing stand point. They're not saying don't eat animals because it's cruel, they're saying don't test drugs on animals when there are computer models and lab work that yield more accurate results (although animals costs less....). They're also against surgeons performing vivisection as part of their training. E.g. when my cousin did her training she had to put a perfectly healthy dog to sleep, chop of some of it's legs and re-attach them, as well as causing massive internal wounds to simulate gunshots.... it's messed up, but it's hard for young doctors to say anything because they've trained for a decade at that point, and they're not going to throw it away (and the next person will come along and do it anyway, since it's such a highly competitive industry). This where the PCRM come in, they lobby medical institutions to stop this kind of stuff.


If you're still thinking that they have some kind of vegan agenda / bias, the PCRM is an organisation of 12,000 doctors. If it was just one or two quacks preaching veganism, I'd be suspicious too, but that's clearly not the case here.

Everything they do is based on data. And they're also not the only medical organisation to do it. The Australian Medical Association is also urging hospitals to give patients plant-based diets because of how much faster they recover (and don't return). The President of the American College of Cardiology is 'vegan', and is know for his phrase "Meat kills, processed meat kills you quicker". The World Cancer Research Fund, recommends beans with every meal, no processed meat, and maximum of 350g of red meat a week. That's basically a plant-based diet.

There are now something like 400 studies being published every single year showing how bad animal products are for us. There's a nice graph here actually showing how much more evidence is coming out all the time: https://youtu.be/C5qRXPDNw1E?t=4190 (nevermind the tacky channel, the speakers at this conference are all legitimate medical professionals)

So yes, your doctors are right, eat your fruit and veg, but also whole grains, beans, nuts and seeds. Bean burrito is a perfect combination of these, followed by a banana and berry smoothie

You also have to consider the amount of financial loss various food and pharmacological industries would suffer if most people ate plant-based. So when you look for opinions about the PCRM people are very quick to make PCRM appear as a bunch of hippies in order to protect their earnings. America spends something like 50 billion dollars a year on statins, and 35 billion on stent surgeries, which would pretty much go away overnight if everyone ate plant-based diets. They're not going to let that money go without a fight, which is why there's a lot of opinions about PCRM around. Needless to say though, they don't have any good evidence to back their reasoning, which makes it quite easy to see which ones are likely opinions funded by certain industries.

I’ve just finished reading The Angry Chef. I highly recommend it as a no nonsense, science-based guide to debunking fad diets.

I’m not sure I agree with everything written, but it’s nice to read a book that talks about enjoying food (even “bad” food) instead of punishing people for their choices.

https://angry-chef.com/

@smr
Think about news stories of people putting their babies on vegan diets.

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/wjqbem/judge-convicts-parents-after-baby-dies-from-vegan-diet

People are genuinely confused and think "nut milk = just as good as regular milk" vegan "meat" should be good enough for my baby to grow up healthy.

The mistakes like this are tragic, and simply refining the definitions so a doctor can say "Your baby needs X, not Y," is what's taking place.

It may seem trivial, but there are pleanty of examples of people who seem confused enough https://www.quora.com/Can-I-try-almond-milk-if-I-am-allergic-to-nuts

Vegan doughnuts and marshmallows exist, and will have the same effect as their non-vegan counterparts. I'm with eric on this. And yes, plant based diets rock.

Title is misleading. Big difference between a vegan diet and a plant base diet. Wouldn't want to mislead people into thinking, if they just cut animal products out of their diet, but keep eating processed foods, they will be healthy.