Hey, a fellow former Catholic!

I'm pretty much in the same boat as Spoon_Gouge, and just couldn't buy it. No animosity towards religious belief in general, but a lot of the dogma of what I was raised to believe just didn't make sense to me. That wouldn't bother me except that I believe some of it to be harmful, or potentially so at any rate.

The 6000 year old earth nonsense and staunch opposition towards evolution always just baffled me - haven't those been pretty effectively proven?

The Bishop does sort of have a point though - earnestly believing that God has Plan would be kind of nice. Sort of makes all the bad stuff that happens to everyone (death and all other sorts of tragedies) seem useful in some way, or at least part of something bigger. I don't personally believe it, but *man* would that be nice sometimes.

I feel Atheism has some advantages, if it's correct - if there is no God, I can go through life without any concern about ending up in Hell. The flipside being that death really, really sucks and I also don't get to believe that I'll end up in Heaven.

That's why I'm an agnostic leaning towards Pastafarianism. Just makes the most sense from a cost/benefit perspective.

Chris Matthews did a great job embarrassing that guy, but he's not doing his job, he leaves the audience stupider going out then going in.

DailyKos article about accomplishments. Here is blog source linked from C&L.


Clinton's Successes:
S.694 : A bill to direct the Secretary of Transportation to issue regulations to reduce the incidence of child injury and death occurring inside or outside of light motor vehicles, and for other purposes. (This is currently in conference committee to reconcile difference with the House bill)
Passed in the Senate:
S.CON.RES.27 : A concurrent resolution supporting the goals and ideals of "National Purple Heart Recognition Day".
S.RES.21 : A resolution recognizing the uncommon valor of Wesley Autrey of New York, New York
S.RES.92 : A resolution calling for the immediate and unconditional release of soldiers of Israel held captive by Hamas and Hezbollah.
S.RES.141 : A resolution urging all member countries of the International Commission of the International Tracing Service who have yet to ratify the May 2006 amendments to the 1955 Bonn Accords to expedite the ratification process to allow for open access to the Holocaust archives located at Bad Arolsen, Germany.
S.RES.222 : A resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month.
S.AMDT.666 to H.R.1591 To link award fees under Department of Homeland Security contracts to successful acquisition outcomes under such contracts.
S.AMDT.2047 to H.R.1585 To specify additional individuals eligible to transportation for survivors of deceased members of the Armed Forces to attend their burial ceremonies.
S.AMDT.2108 to H.R.1585 To require a report on the planning and implementation of the policy of the United States toward Darfur.
S.AMDT.2390 to H.R.2638 To require that all contracts of the Department of Homeland Security that provide award fees link such fees to successful acquisition outcomes.
S.AMDT.2474 to H.R.2638 To ensure that the Federal Protective Service has adequate personnel.
S.AMDT.2823 to H.R.3074 To require a report on plans to alleviate congestion and flight delays in the New York/New Jersey/Philadelphia Airspace.
S.AMDT.2917 to H.R.1585 To extend and enhance the authority for temporary lodging expenses for members of the Armed Forces in areas subject to a major disaster declaration or for installations experiencing a sudden increase in personnel levels.

Obama's Success:
S.AMDT.1041 to S.1082 To improve the safety and efficacy of genetic tests.
S.AMDT.3073 to H.R.1585 To provide for transparency and accountability in military and security contracting.
S.AMDT.3078 to H.R.1585 Relating to administrative separations of members of the Armed Forces for personality disorder.
S.AMDT.41 to S.1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.
S.AMDT.524 to S.CON.RES.21 To provide $100 million for the Summer Term Education Program supporting summer learning opportunities for low-income students in the early grades to lessen summer learning losses that contribute to the achievement gaps separating low-income students from their middle-class peers.
S.AMDT.599 to S.CON.RES.21 To add $200 million for Function 270 (Energy) for the demonstration and monitoring of carbon capture and sequestration technology by the Department of Energy.
S.AMDT.905 to S.761 To require the Director of Mathematics, Science, and Engineering Education to establish a program to recruit and provide mentors for women and underrepresented minorities who are interested in careers in mathematics, science, and engineering.
S.AMDT.923 to S.761 To expand the pipeline of individuals entering the science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields to support United States innovation and competitiveness.
S.AMDT.924 to S.761 To establish summer term education programs.
S.AMDT.2519 to H.R.2638 To provide that one of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5 million or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee certifies in writing to the agency awarding the contract or grant that the contractor or grantee owes no past due Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.2588 to H.R.976 To provide certain employment protections for family members who are caring for members of the Armed Forces recovering from illnesses and injuries incurred on active duty.
S.AMDT.2658 to H.R.2642 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.2692 to H.R.2764 To require a comprehensive nuclear threat reduction and security plan.
S.AMDT.2799 to H.R.3074 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3137 to H.R.3222 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3234 to H.R.3093 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3331 to H.R.3043 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
Senate Resolutions Passed:
S.RES.133 : A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.
S.RES.268 : A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as "National Summer Learning Day".

>> ^arsenault185:
I almost have to take offense to that one spoco. Your entitled to your opinion though, so I wont.
(playing devils advocate)
So I'm narrow minded for having faith in a higher power am I? I believe perfectly well that humans are capable of "functioning really well" without dropping everything off on a "phantom dude." For you to say this makes you just as narrow minded as what your trying to claim I am.


My issue was that he was saying that he couldn't fathom how anyone can function WITHOUT said mythical dude... not that people chose to, but rather that he almost took offense in the fact that people could dare to get by without him.


Of course I can handle my issues on my own. of course you could. So what if life is better for me because I believe in God and Jesus? Why does it bother you?


Ahh, because you have the arrogance to assume that your life is better than mine thanks to your belief. If it makes you happy, so be it, but to do a snide 'my life is better than yours because I believe in them'... that's condescending.



And how was that mainstream? It was a local station. And on top of that, how could that EVER be conceived as condescending? If anything, they were trying to show people that atheists are normal people and are capable for normal lives, and that you AREN'T heathens of some kind.

It's still a tv station, and it demonstrates the media attitude in general in the US... and not condescending? On second watching I think, perhaps they were trying to not be condescending... but it comes across that way in spades. All this incredulity that Atheists can amazingly be good people and lead moral lives, and that... oh my goodness, there's quite a lot of us. Then:

Firstly the Bishop is a major condescending dick suggesting that it's a better culture for people who are 'having struggles with faith', and those that ... pause, stammer 'don't believe in god' can be more 'forthright and honest' about the fact. He's trying to suggest that there are not more athiests, just that all them good christian types allow them to speak up. What crud, it's an even more religiously zealot filled media and parliament than ever. The second speaker on that point nails it.

The "the children have had no problem making friends at school". As if they're some sorts of freaks who should be finding it difficult.

Then 'yeah, good points from both sides'... um... what points exactly did the pro religious have in this piece? Um... none... that's right, just the bishop with the insanely ludicrous 'who do you put your faith in' comment. Just Argh... Argh...

Just the term 'Believers vs non Believers'... it is putting a positive spin on those that believe. Rationalists vs Religious is less divisive.

And 'It's mainstream now' as it fades out... as if it's some closet thing.



Chill out. Let people believe what they want to believe, and you believe what you want to believe.
(I am a Christian, though and extremely right wing conservative, but not in the fact that you should eat Christ Chex for breakfast)

I am more than happy for people to believe in whatever they wish EXCEPT when it causes detriment to the world at large:
* When lack of belief in scientific facts is harming education
* When people's narrow minded interpretation of their bible is trying to be forced into country's laws
* When people are being discriminated against because of who they want to share a bed with
* When those that believe in god are of the opinion that EVERYONE should believe in their god.

That's what has all us atheists all riled up, the people you have running for office in the states all proudly proclaim their faith, and it would seem would have NO ability to ever stand for office if they did not.

It's a horrendous state of affairs where the religion of the running member has any baring on their election chances.

nicely said.

In reply to this comment by spoco2:
Argh! That darn bishop... Why do we need to have some mythical figure to 'turn to' in times of need? That's just a coping mechanism and an easy way out. The BETTER way to cope in such times is to find constructive outlets for whatever anger, hatred etc. there might be, or find solace and comfort in family and friends in times of need.

Just incredibly narrow minded to not believe that humans are capable of functioning REALLY WELL without having to pile any issues they have on a phantom dude with beard in the sky.

And the horrible tone of this piece such that athiests are some weird, out there group, and wow, isn't is amazing they can make friends.

Fuck you mainstream US tv... fuck you big time. This is the sort of condescending bullshit that makes Atheists seethe. We're not as abnormal as you may think you know.

Argh! That darn bishop... Why do we need to have some mythical figure to 'turn to' in times of need? That's just a coping mechanism and an easy way out. The BETTER way to cope in such times is to find constructive outlets for whatever anger, hatred etc. there might be, or find solace and comfort in family and friends in times of need.

Just incredibly narrow minded to not believe that humans are capable of functioning REALLY WELL without having to pile any issues they have on a phantom dude with beard in the sky.

And the horrible tone of this piece such that athiests are some weird, out there group, and wow, isn't is amazing they can make friends.

Fuck you mainstream US tv... fuck you big time. This is the sort of condescending bullshit that makes Atheists seethe. We're not as abnormal as you may think you know.

at 3:37?
easy answer, to bishop mark hanson's 'key question'. "eachother."

the fact that he would even need to ask that, shows how little time he has spent, imagining if it could be true. too scary, to think big daddy's not at the wheel.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'kangaroo, masterbate, masturbation, blooper, news, funny, polish, bishop, spank, jerk, off' to 'kangaroo, masturbate, masturbation, blooper, news, funny, polish, bishop, spank, jerk, off' - edited by my15minutes

Tags for this video have been changed from 'masterbate, blooper, kangaroo, news, funny, polish the bishop' to 'kangaroo, masterbate, masturbation, blooper, news, funny, polish, bishop, spank, jerk, off' - edited by my15minutes

Tags for this video have been changed from 'zoo, blooper, kangaroo, news, funny' to 'masterbate, blooper, kangaroo, news, funny, polish the bishop' - edited by rottenseed

>> ^ajkido:
Christians invented physics? (2:30)


A lot of early science came from religion. Astronomy was born out of astrology. It was actually a Catholic bishop (or maybe just a plain old priest) that came up with the "Big Bang Theory." He didn't call it that, the name came from a scientist that had a competing theory that the universe was static.

That's really interesting, thank you. Good to hear that things are looking up for Rwanda at last. If you get any more news like this please pass it on!

In reply to this comment by snoozedoctor:
With your interest in the Rwandan genocide, I thought I would give you a little update from there. Our team just returned, although I didn't go. Rwanda is the 7th poorest nation and the most densely populated in the world. Most of the villagers have nothing but a small hut, one or two sets of clothes, and if they are lucky, a pair of shoes. Several years ago, my wife nearly caused a riot among the children when she pulled out some Starburst candy to hand out.

These people have nothing, they have been through hell with AIDS and the genocide, and yet they seem to be, on the whole, much happier than Americans. They hug you with great enthusiasm and are immensely grateful for what you do for them. I'm looking forward to seeing Bishop Geoffrey of Rwanda next week, as he and his wife are in the States for a visit. We got to treat them to a traditional American Thanksgiving feast year before last and that was a lot of fun.

Things are looking up there. The government is stable, by African standards, and seems to be acting in the best interest of the people. These people continually show me there is hope for us all.

Just an update.

With your interest in the Rwandan genocide, I thought I would give you a little update from there. Our team just returned, although I didn't go. Rwanda is the 7th poorest nation and the most densely populated in the world. Most of the villagers have nothing but a small hut, one or two sets of clothes, and if they are lucky, a pair of shoes. Several years ago, my wife nearly caused a riot among the children when she pulled out some Starburst candy to hand out.

These people have nothing, they have been through hell with AIDS and the genocide, and yet they seem to be, on the whole, much happier than Americans. They hug you with great enthusiasm and are immensely grateful for what you do for them. I'm looking forward to seeing Bishop Geoffrey of Rwanda next week, as he and his wife are in the States for a visit. We got to treat them to a traditional American Thanksgiving feast year before last and that was a lot of fun.

Things are looking up there. The government is stable, by African standards, and seems to be acting in the best interest of the people. These people continually show me there is hope for us all.

Just an update.

Gorgon, Thinking about politiancs and pandering, I've never seen Ron Paul pander when speaking, which makes me respect him that much more. I've never seen him attack another candidate. If politicians were more like him I think people would not be so politically polarized in this country. Again, he is the only religious candidate I would trust in office not to set policy according to his personal religious beliefs.

I don't think that "all" christians do not think that mormons are not christians. I think most people (christians) don't know enough about what the mormon religion claims (asserts) to know or form a viewpoint. As most religions there is a lot of personal subjectiveness when talking about religion. It seems to me only fundamentalist have a problem with mormon theology.

that text above was from a christian site (which i linked to) I'm sorry if i did not make it clear enough that those were their specific views.

I think it can be summed up as this (from a christian viewpoint)

how would you feel if one day someone all of a sudden added religious books onto biblical scripture, that changed much of the philosophy of the christian faith and even went as far as to say that the bible has been corrupted and that the new books were now the "true" word of god.

I imagine that has a lot of fundies/christians pretty pissed off (when they find out that and more...)

I found a really great outline of some of the other arguements that christians bring up (link at the bottom). I found this really interesting as I had not heard some of the specifics beforehand.

A Brief Description of LDS Doctrine and Teachings

What follows are a few key points of distinctive doctrines taught by the LDS Church, but by no means an exhaustive list of LDS teachings. These in particular are given to demonstrate how it differs from that of biblical Christianity. It should be noted that the LDS Church frequently uses terminology similar to that of biblical Christianity in communicating its doctrines, but often with drastically different meanings or connotations. This tends to obscure the fundamental differences in doctrine to the casual observer. (For a more detailed and authoritative look at LDS doctrine, we recommend you check out their online publication of Gospel Principles , which is available in the .pdf format; Adobe Acrobat Reader is required.)

The LDS Church is the only true church.
This teaching is generally not publically promoted in modern times, nevertheless, the internal teachings state that the other denominations are "abominations" to God, and that the LDS Church is the only true church that bears the "restored" gospel of Jesus Christ. In recent years, however, many within the LDS Church have taken active measures to appear more palatable to traditional Christianity. Many of the doctrines which set it apart from biblical Christianity have been downplayed (though not recanted). Nevertheless, because of the gross differences between LDS doctrine and orthodox Christian doctrine, and because of aberrant LDS teachings that depart from the biblical standard, Christendom in general does not recognize the LDS Church as another Christian denomination. These distinctives, however, are becoming blurred by a growing "ecumenical" attitude at an alarming rate; due in part to a general lack of education or agreement on Mormon distinctives, or for that matter, a lack of education or agreement on Christian distinctives.

The LDS view of the nature of humanity.
The LDS Church teaches that all humans existed prior to life on earth as the "spirit children" of the Heavenly Father (and his wife/wives) in heaven, and that our earthly birth came about when our spirit willingly chose to inhabit a physical body on earth.

The LDS view of the nature of God.
LDS theology states that God (or more commonly referred to as "Heavenly Father") is an exalted and glorified man, that he has a physical (albeit immortal) body. It is also taught that qualifying Mormons can also become gods, just like the Heavenly Father, in the next life, and produce spirit offspring (presumably to populate another earth.). The doctrine of the Trinity as accepted by Biblical Christianity is rejected by LDS theology. The LDS Church teaches that both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are "spirit children" of God, and that Jesus is unique in that he is also the fleshly son of God (conceived by a physical union of the Heavenly Father and Mary). It is also taught that Lucifer, or Satan, is also one of the Heavenly Father's spirit-children, making him a "spirit brother" Jesus.

The LDS view of the fall of humanity.
The LDS Church teaches that Adam and Eve were the first "spirit children" to inhabit physical bodies on earth. Their temptation by Satan to eat the forbidden fruit and subsequent fall is characterized as part of God's plan, using the premise that had they not done so, then they would not be able to reproduce, and thereby provide physical bodies for other spirit children. It is also the teaching of the LDS Church that unless a spirit child inhabits a physical body, he cannot be elevated to godhood in the next life.

The LDS view of scripture.
The LDS Church accepts the Book of Mormon as their primary scripture and the inspired Word of God, supplemented by the Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. The Bible is accepted as the Word of God only insofar as it has been translated correctly. However, the qualifier attached to the Bible substantiates a belief that the Bible has been significantly corrupted over the centuries, and is therefore not entirely reliable as the Word of God.

The LDS view of revelation and prophecy.
Generally speaking, prophecy is seen as progressive and changeable. New revelations are not uncommon throughout their history, and critics will point out that many of these revelations tend to be revelations of convenience in order to accommodate a particular circumstance or situation. A case in point is the revelation that allowing of African-Americans to enter the priesthood (which had been prohibited until the 1970s). Other prophecies, such as Joseph Smith's claims about what will be found on the moon, have remained (and are likely to remain) unfulfilled.

The LDS view of salvation and the afterlife.
Salvation in LDS terms refers simply to the resurrection (return to life), which has been provided to all men via the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It differs from the biblical Christian view, which is that salvation is a rescue from God's punishment for sin, and the right to live eternally in God's presence. The afterlife is also viewed differently. The LDS teachings concerning the afterlife involve three levels of glory, and one is assigned to a greater or lesser level of heaven, according to one's performance on Earth. The highest level, the "Celestial" heaven, is reserved only for those who have met all the requirements of the LDS Church, including, among other things, temple marriage, and strict obedience to the commands. The LDS also teaches what is called "The Outer Darkness," which would be roughly equivalent to hell, a place of torment reserved for those who reject the gospel (as presented by the LDS Church). This is in contrast to the Biblical description of the afterlife, in which anyone who embraces the unmerited salvation of Jesus Christ will be blessed eternally in God's presence, and those who reject it will be eternally condemned in hell.

Additional Comments.
Anyone who delves into Mormon doctrine, thought, and teaching quickly realizes that it is not a simple matter. A systematic theology can hardly be said to exist in Mormonism. It is convoluted, and often contradictory. Many LDS theologians and apologists have undertaken a systematic approach to defining the doctrines and theology of the Church (a notable example being Bruce R. McConkie, author of Mormon Doctrine). The LDS Church as an organization rarely gives any official endorsement of church theologians or apologists, although unofficially, as in the case of McConkie, they may be considered authorities by the general Mormon public. In addition, Church leadership are quick to skirt the more esoteric aspects of their doctrine, particularly those doctrines which are most blasphemous to Christians. For example, when asked about the man-becoming-God doctrine on a Larry King Live interview, LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley evaded the question, and hinted that it was an anachronism that was generally not taught anymore. However, comments made by President Hinckley during LDS church conventions clearly indicate that this doctrine is alive and well in the internal structure of the LDS Church.


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A Brief Description of LDS Practices and Lifestyle Distinctives

LDS values.
The LDS Church is often praised by outsiders for their promotion of traditional family values and morality. Emphasis is placed on family and community support, patriotism, chastity, and respect for civil law. Politically LDS members (as a rule) tend to be conservative.

LDS restrictions.
The LDS Church prohibits the use of alcohol, tobacco, and "hot drinks" which in practice is coffee and tea (and caffeine in general). This restriction is also known as the "Word of Wisdom." LDS members are generally "Sunday Sabbatarians," that is, Sundays are considered to be holy days and not to be desecrated by working, entertainment, or other types of non-religious activities. The degree of strictness may vary.

LDS requirements.
The members of the LDS Church are expected to faithfully attend church (in some cases attendance is taken and absence is noted); they are expected to pay a strict 10% tithe of their income; young men are expected to serve two years on a "mission," the location and logistics of which are determined by the Church.

LDS structure & hierarchy.
The LDS Church is organized by wards (individual congregations) and stakes (groups of wards in a particular area, often using a common meeting or "stake" house). A member is assigned to a ward based on where he/she lives in a community. Each ward has a leader known as a bishop. The stake is led by a stake president. (No women are allowed in the priesthood or bishopric of the LDS Church, or in any of the higher church government positions, however certain societies within the church are led by women.) The LDS church does not have "pastors" or "ministers" in the sense that most Christians would think of them. Nearly all the leadership of the LDS Church is done on a volunteer basis, i.e., they are not paid clergy members. This is a fact that many Mormons take as a point of pride over most traditional Christian churches, which further substantiates the belief among them that the non-LDS churches are corrupt. However, higher positions of leadership within the LDS Church are not only paid, but paid extremely well.

Sunday church services generally consist of a time of singing hymns, sometimes a sacramental meal, and sharing of "testimonies" by the ward members (each member is encouraged to participate in the giving of testimonies, which affirm their faith in the LDS Church). There is no "preaching" in the sense that traditional Christianity thinks of it, but individual members and/or leaders may be called on to share or teach during church services. Children and youth are taught scriptures and LDS principles in separate classes.

LDS temples.
The LDS temples are a focal point of the LDS religion. Temples are where the religious rituals, most of them very secretive, take place. People are baptized, "sealed", and married, in the temple ceremonies. LDS members also practice "Baptism of the Dead" where deceased individuals are baptized by proxy in order to secure membership in the Church for them. Access to the temples are restricted to those who have been deemed worthy by their church leaders, and have been given a "temple recommend." Worthiness is generally determined by the bishop or stake president based on overall lifestyle, being up-to-date on tithing and other requirements of the Church.

LDS missions & missionaries.
Young men, generally out of high school, are expected to serve two years on a mission. While this is not an official requirement for advancement in the church, it is generally an unwritten expectation. Latest estimates are that only about one-third of young LDS men actually go on missions. The mission place is determined by the Church with little or no input on the part of the would-be missionary or his family, though the family must incur much of the expenses related to the mission. The location may be in North America or anywhere in the world. They are sent out in pairs, wearing black suits and white shirts, and their objective is to teach others (often door-to-door) about the Church and to encourage people to embrace the Book of Mormon and join the LDS Church. While on a mission, the missionaries are often subject to certain restrictions, which include limited contact with their families. While most missionaries are men, unmarried women are also allowed to go on a mission, if they so choose. Sometimes couples will serve together on missions, typically after retirement.

http://www.mormonchallenge.com/mormonism.htm

Qruel: one other thing to keep in mind about the widely varying beliefs of mormons (like any religion)

Today, there are many schism organizations who regard themselves as a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, though in most cases they do not acknowledge the other branches as valid and regard their own tradition as the only correct and authorized version of Smith's church. Most of these organizations are small. The vast majority of Latter Day Saints belong to the largest denomination, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which reports 13 million members worldwide. The second-largest denomination is the more ecumenical Community of Christ, which reports over 250,000 members. The third largest is The Church of Jesus Christ, with fewer than 20,000 adherents.(that was from wiki)

People who take the bible literally would do well to read other books concerning ancient history, early religion, and the history of the Christian church. The bible, as we know it today, was assembled by bishops centuries after the time of Christ. It has since been translated and edited by other religious and political figures, always for one agenda or another. And much of the tales and teachings are derivatives of older 'pagan' religions from the Mediteranean and Near East. It is a product of history, and as such possesses great merit as a historical document, just like the works of Homer and Virgil provide insight into Greek and Roman history. But it is essentially myth. Nearly all academic historians would agree with me on this. If taken literally, one would be faced with sorting out the myriad of contradictions contained within it. Oh, and you'd have to learn Greek, Latin, Aramaic, and Hebrew in order to really understand the text anyway. The relationship between language and thought is such that certain concepts and ideas can never be translated properly...you know, "Lost in translation." Anyway, I'm an atheist, but I try to be respectful of all people of faith. Believe what you want, but please, I beg you. Use reason. We are all rational beings, and if you believe in a God, than you must believe that he or she or it gave you a brain for a reason. Use it! Ask questions, don't just listen to what you're told.

Oh, and as for evolution. In this case, the use of "theory" should be restricted to the scientific community. For the non-scientific, the word "fact" would be an excellent supplement. Yes, there is debate in the field of human evolution (paleoanthropology), but by now we have the chronology fairly well figured out. At least enough to guarantee that humans were around long before 6,000 years ago. Unless you can prove that the decay constant of a radioactive isotope is not constant after all (good luck with that).

Hey dog, your video with Dawkins and the Bishop of Oxford (which I really like) is now a dead link ( http://www.videosift.com/video/Richard-Dawkins-Interviews-The-Bishop-Of-Oxford-35mins ).

It's still around on YT, but is now split into parts. I've made a YT playlist that gathers them together: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EDA4ECE17802439B . (Use the embed code for the whole list to include all four parts parts in your post--if you want.)