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Cuffed Without Cause

newtboy says...

In a perfect world, yes, but in reality, no.
Police do not have to tell the truth, and if a lie gets them the upper hand, they'll often lie. Asking them to explain your rights, especially after annoying them by being obstinate and repeating to them that you know your rights, is just dumb imo. They have no obligation to teach you or to be honest about them and every incentive not to.....although it would be nice if they did.

Edit: asking for a lengthy explanation after being told 'any answer besides"yes" is considered refusal' is a point where you will be penalized for asking what your rights are....white, black, or purple.

Explain how it's ok to administer a test at any time but this time is harassment because he failed them, please, because that's contradictory.

He parked on the freeway causing suspicion,
admitted to drinking and driving requiring a field test,
didn't follow directions so failed the field test,
then obstinately repeated that with the breathalyzer by not answering yes and taking it. (After being told anything but yes legally means no).
Please, what's harassment there?....because there's definitely something more imo.

Remove race from the equation, and it's a good arrest. Adding race in does nothing to negate that imo.


Edit: I was a white punk with a long Mohawk. I got harassed far worse than this repeatedly, including being thrown to the ground at gunpoint because an officer read my plate wrong and accused me of being a car thief. Attitude usually has far more to do with the outcome than anything else in my experience. When I was polite and followed instructions I almost always walked, even when in the wrong. When I argued, I got slapped hard, like a vandalism charge for a 4" chalk line on a sidewalk or 2 hours of having my car searched in front of my friends house.

If I'm misunderstanding and you aren't claiming this was a dwb arrest, apologies. That's the part I'm debating, because it seems wrong.

ChaosEngine said:

Sorry @newtboy, but at no point in any interaction with law enforcement should you ever be penalised for asking what your rights are in a given situation. It should automatically “pause” any other question until that is answered.

Now, I have no problem with a police officer stopping anyone and administering a sobriety test at any time, but this is clearly harassment and nothing more.

Starbucks meetup ends with handcuffs for 2 patrons

newtboy says...

Ok, it seems they did use the restroom and were noticed and approached, not that they asked to use it and were denied, I misunderstood the tv report. From their online report....

"The employees told police the men came into the store, sat down and then used the bathroom, according to Ross.
"Starbucks said that according to their company policy, they do not allow non-paying...people of the public to come in and use the restroom," Ross said. "So they then asked these two males to leave. These two males refused to leave and the police were called."

"We would love to meet those two men and personally apologize," Camille Hymes, the Starbucks regional manager, told NBC10. "We take full responsibility."
We take full responsibility and....we put [the manager] in a position that did not allow her to be set up for success or those two men," Hymes said
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Protesters-Gather-Outside-Philadelphia-Starbucks-After-Two-Black-Men-Were-Arrested-There-479809353.html

So it seems this is corporate policy, or at least a regional policy, that may just not be enforced in most places, at least that's how I read that.
Full disclosure, I don't think I've ever been to a Starbucks.

Edit: now I've seen an interview with a customer who said you do have to ask for the restroom code at this location, so the original report is looking more correct.

CrushBug said:

I guess even the "ask to use the restroom" is confusing to me, since all the Starbucks I have been in, the things are at the back of the store and you just walk in. Sometimes that is my first stop before I order a coffee. They are usually pretty busy, so I have problems how any staff member could know whether or not I ordered something now, or an hour ago. This is where it starts getting weird for me.

You have to admit the optics on this one is pretty bad for that store. I don't for a second believe that this is anything else that something that happened at that particular store and not Starbucks policy.

How Dark Patterns Trick You Online

Fairbs says...

I got a linked in request from my Dad

after he had died

I was pissed

they apologized profusely which helped, but the reality is they don't actually give a crap

Man confronts Superintendent about Bullying in Katy ISD publ

MilkmanDan says...

Two thoughts:

1) Remembering something shameful or terrible can cause a person discomfort that they don't know how to deal with particularly well. They might go numb and blank. They might cry. Or, they might laugh -- which can seem incredibly inappropriate from an outside perspective.

2) Even if one were to give Lance the benefit of the doubt here with regard to part 1 there, a person in a position of authority (like a Superintendent) needs to follow up and try to make amends, along with showing some empathy and understanding that it is his job to try to prevent that kind of shit from happening NOW.

I guess it is possible that after the meeting, he went out and apologized and said that he regrets what he did when he was a young, stupid kid, and that that motivates him to work hard to prevent that kind of stuff now that he is in a position to do so. Possible, yes. Likely, no.

Stalked by a Cougar

Dad, we've been through this

newtboy says...

What wires do you have crossed that you can't comprehend a simple analogy/simile? You can't be that dense....you just can't, but you come across that way.

So you can understand, I'll break it down to grade school level. Most police, not all, lie in their job (or worse). Most heroin addicts, not all, steal. Just as you would prudently protect yourself from an addict by assuming they might steal, you should protect yourself from dishonest cops by assuming anything they tell you might be a lie.

Jebus Christ, you people are exhausting.

I have nothing to apologize to them for, certainly not for my opinion. If anything, I'm due a few apologies by dishonest powertripping police for their inexcusable behaviors and actions.

That is all, I'm done with this b.s.. Good day, sir.

Anom212325 said:

What wires do you have crossed to compare a police officer with a drug addict ? You come off as a very hateful person. Remember this whole discussion if ever you need help and apologize to the one helping you.

Dad, we've been through this

Anom212325 says...

What wires do you have crossed to compare a police officer with a drug addict ? You come off as a very hateful person. Remember this whole discussion if ever you need help and apologize to the one helping you.

newtboy said:

Kind of like you saying it's wrong to assume a heroin junkie will steal from you if you let them stay in your house...Will they all steal, no, should you just say they're certainly thieves, no, do you trust them with your house keys because they might not, Fuck no.

Asmo (Member Profile)

bareboards2 says...

I do apologize for being harsh in my response. It is years of frustration.

Sexism isn't desire. Desire is lovely. Desire is mutual.

Sexism isn't mutual.

And there is internalized sexism for women just as there is internalized racism and homophobia by black and gay people. If you are steeped in a culture that lives in its lizard brain responses, one gets polluted by it. No one is free from it.

And you are correct. There is no where to go from here.

Asmo said:

My brief reply wasn't a dismissal of your points, I just have a different subjective opinion and didn't feel it was necessary to say "sure" to a dozen individual paragraphs or start a drawn out dissection of all the little bits that I don't necessarily agree with.

And given that you've slipped back in to condescension, assertion based on opinion and an unwillingness to recognise that women have agency and choice and are making decisions as to where they work, how they dress etc, I honestly don't think it's productive to keep batting backward and forward when, in all probability, I'm just going to end up saying something that dreadfully offends you.

However, racism and desire are nothing alike. Desire is generally positive, racism isn't. Desire can be controlled, but racism can be deleted (there are plenty of former racists who have gotten over it). We can see difference, but we can also make the choice to say it doesn't matter. Desire can lead to some of the most wonderful moments of your life. Racism leads to nowhere good.

That you see the two as equivalent is disturbing.

Police K9 attacks innocent woman dumping her garbage

Republican Tax Scam Is Handwritten Nonsense

Jonathan Pie - Enough is Enough

visionep says...

The idea of GB forcing him to apologize would be pretty cool. If he didn't and they screwed their economy just to stand up for their values that would be even better.

Showing that integrity is paramount would be amazing.

Don Lemon is not having it

newtboy says...

I totally agree.
I have seen her admit exactly that, except for calling it a mistake or apologizing. I think she needs to do that too, or if she already has, she needs to do it again, long before any hint of campaigning.

Mordhaus said:

He is an idiot when it comes to being President, but he is an absolute genius when it comes to tearing apart potential contenders in elections. He knows there is a strong chance that Senator Warren will run against him in 2020, so he is always going to hit her in what is, admittedly, a huge weak spot for her.

I would still vote for her against him, but she needs to realize and be prepared should she run that this is something she is going to have to finally answer. It doesn't even have to be a difficult one, just say that she made a mistake based on bad family anecdotes which led her to believe she might have been part Native American. People will forgive a mistake if you are clear about it, but if you leave it vague (which she unfortunately has), then Trump WILL exploit it.

NY Times and 5 women call out Louis CK for harrassment

Curb your misunderstanding

CrushBug says...

OMG, this reminds me of the time I accidentally picked up a prostitute.

3 jobs ago, one of my co-workers took the bus along the route I drove each morning. After talking about it, we agreed that I would stop in this parking lot near where she would transfer bus routes and I could give her a ride to work. I would wait a few minutes and if she was there I would give her a ride, otherwise I would just head to work. I ended up giving her a ride about 2 or 3 mornings each week, so that worked out.

One morning, I was stopped in the parking lot and the door opened and this strange woman sat down. I looked at her and she asked me some weird question (don't remember) and I just said that I didn't think I was her ride and that I was waiting for someone else. She apologized and got out. I remember thinking that she was wearing some odd clothing for the fall and how cold it was this morning, but whatever. I dress like an idiot most times, so I am not going to judge someone's high-heels, shorts, ridiculously short jacket, and overly large earrings. My co-worker didn't show that morning, so I drove to work.

It was about 10 minutes later, during the drive, that I realized that I had almost picked up a prostitute that morning.

Trump Attacks the Mayor of San Juan: A Closer Look

CrushBug says...

If you provide aid to 2 separate hurricane incidents that affect white people, but drag your heels when it affects brown people, you might be a racist.

If your reaction to a disaster isn't to help people, and those people are brown, you might be a racist.

If you think that when brown people are dying due to a natural disaster and your argument is that they didn't attend meetings, instead of quickly trying to save lives, you might be a racist.

If your fucking around causes all patients in an ICU ward to die, then you are just a shitty human being.

(Apologies for the use of "brown people", but I didn't have any better way to phrase it right now.)



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