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The Fine Tuning of the Universe

newtboy says...

The platypus was the joke part. (I think you got that);-)
Please...first that's not proving a negative. That's about understanding the definition of a word....and second it is wrong...divorced men without children (but that had been married) are bachelors, married men with a bachelor's degree are bachelors, young married knights that follow another's banner are bachelors, as are married landless knights. D'OH! ;-)
I don't have to prove the universe isn't designed, nor do I say anything that definitive. (because one could say that the laws of physics are a form of design, so in that sense I do think the universe is 'designed', but not by a 'designer god'). If you feel the need for others like me to believe as you, it's up to you to prove it IS designed, and by who.
I do say there's no need for a 'designer', and it seems incredibly unlikely as well as completely unnecessary. I will also say all I've heard about 'god' only references stories told by men long ago (or anecdote), and trying to 'prove' some of those stories is not proving god. I can't say what might prove god...if he existed omnisciently he might know, but he's keeping quiet about it! ;-)
I also say incredible claims require incredible evidence, not anecdotal 'evidence'...conversely 'that which can be asserted without evidence can be discarded without evidence.' (Hitchens)

shinyblurry said:

hehe, I think the platypus is a marvel of design. Only a creative genius could come up with a duck-beaver.

You can prove a negative. Here is one: there are no married bachelors

I think it is a valid question. If you know the Universe isn't designed, what criteria are you using? What is the difference between the Universe we are living in and one that would be designed. I am wondering how people rule that out, or why they seem to think it is a ridiculous question to begin with.

Bill Nye: The Earth is Really, Really Not 6,000 Years Old

ChaosEngine says...

I'm sorry your Mom died, but what you have is an anecdote.

I'm sure your perceived experience means a lot to you, but the most probable answer is pretty simple: you imagined it. Human memory is incredibly fallible and at times of emotional stress even more so. There have been numerous studies that have shown this.

And yes, science can't explain everything.... yet. But that doesn't mean we just get to fill in the blanks.

There is no "fact" that there is "something beyond us". In fact, everything we know has shown that there almost certainly isn't anything beyond us (at least in a supernatural sense).

Meanwhile, where's our resident young earther? Cmon @shinyblurry. Bill Nye is calling you out.

bobknight33 said:

I grew up in a nonreligious household. My mom died a week after I graduated HS. ( It was 1980- before cell phones.) I had left the house that day and was out all day. Late in the afternoon I heard my mom say "goodby" . It was her voice and she was not there but still I heard it clear as day.

I got home late that evening and my dad was waiting in the living room to tell me that mom died.

Bill Nye and others like him have a point but still can not answer experiences like I and others have had. There is no evolution theory that explains supernatural events.

Yes I believe in GOD. There is something out there that science can't explain. Yes there are a lot of nut job preachers and followers. It does not change the fact there is something beyond us.


We will all find out on our deathbed.

"Stupidity of American Voter," critical to passing Obamacare

newtboy jokingly says...

I'll just re-iterate my point...

Who are you to question God's wanting me to NOT believe in him?
If He's the creator, He created my curious, evidence requiring brain and also He refused to provide ANY evidence (anecdotal evidence is not evidence) of his existence, therefore IF he exists, he clearly wants me to not believe in him.
Stop fighting against god's wishes.

shinyblurry said:

Hi brother,

I am not claiming to be Christs sole representative; anyone who has the Holy Spirit is representing Jesus Christ wherever they go. Christians are ambassadors of the Kingdom of God. I don't know you, but I'll assume that you do know the Lord. That means that you're also Christs representative here as well. I didn't know you were a Christian; is this the first time you've ever spoken about it here, publicly?

Why you should get a flu shot

yellowc says...

You're right about one thing, I definitely did close my mind more to those idiots.

I like how they brush "anecdotal evidence" off as some cop out answer but then in their bio they claim they're promoters of "good science".

I suppose what the random mum attributes the death of her child must be taken as credible. The rest is irrelevant because the stupid in the first few paragraphs invalidates me taking seriously the rest of the content.

Officer Friendly is NOT your friend

VoodooV says...

you're ONE cop out of hundreds of thousands.

you honestly think you CAN "represent" cops here? You think you SHOULD?

Who elected/appointed you? Why should we consider you credible in any way? Even if I had zero prior contact with you and my opinion of you was neutral or even the slightest bit positive, you're committing an appeal to authority fallacy. You just defended the notion that a cop can/should lie.

Once again, you have this problem with anecdotal evidence. You are ONE datapoint out of hundreds of thousands. You don't have this magic insight you claim to have. you...can only speak for...yourself. The cop in this video has already spoken for himself.

you have NO authority here. You're just like shinyblurry mindlessly quoting the bible as if it should mean something.

You're impotent

lantern53 said:

Enoch, I agree with you 100%.

In my defense, I am not defending bad behavior or bad cops. They make the rest of us (the majority) look bad.

All I'm trying to do is bring some light to the subject. I have inside knowledge of how things are. There is another side to every story, which is one of the first thing a cop learns.

But there are a lot of rabid cop-haters out there (or gathered together in a cave and surfing videosift) who will never accept anything I say or try to see it from another perspective.

Bad cops are the exception, not the rule, which is my focus in these discussions.

When I say that courts have ruled that cops can lie, it doesn't mean cops go around lying to everyone. It means that during an investigation or investigative stop, you can bluff someone to reveal criminal behavior. The courts will certainly let you know that lying in court will result in your termination, the loss of your pension, your whole career.

I agree with you that cops should be held to a higher standard. I don't like fat cops, rude cops, aggressive cops. My favorite co-workers are those with a good sense of humor, self-deprecation and a common-sense perspective.

But whenever I make a comment on here, people just weave these incredible fabrications of corruption and accusation...eventually I think, fuck it, what a waste of time.

Then I take a break and I try it again. What a fool I am!

Why War is Killing Less of Us Than Ever

ChaosEngine says...

*quality video.

If anyone would like to read more on this subject, I recommend Steven Pinkers The Better Angels of Our Nature, which also covers deaths by crime, disease, malnutrition, etc. It's one of the most information dense books I've ever read, filled with all kinds of historical anecdotes* and grisly statistics about violent deaths per capita throughout history, but it basically boils down to this:

we live in the healthiest, happiest, most peaceful time in history.

The reason it seems so bad is that we simply have more access to information about conflicts, murders, etc than we did in the past.

It's important to note that while Vulture Capitalism isn't as bad as colonialism, it's still Pretty Fucking Bad.

* fascinating fact: the reason dinner knives are generally blunt (apart from steak knives) is because it's stopped people getting into an argument over dinner and stabbing each other. It was previously commonplace for everyone to carry their own knife to dinner and eat with it.

Brittany Maynard - Death with Dignity

ChaosEngine says...

Actually you said

Cannabis cures cancer. To HELL with western medicine.


Then you posted a bunch of anecdotes from a hemp oil salesman.

Then you talked about Dr Marcia Angell; I presume that's the same Marica Angell that said
It is time for the scientific community to stop giving alternative medicine a free ride... There cannot be two kinds of medicine — conventional and alternative. There is only medicine that has been adequately tested and medicine that has not, medicine that works and medicine that may or may not work. Once a treatment has been tested rigorously, it no longer matters whether it was considered alternative at the outset. If it is found to be reasonably safe and effective, it will be accepted.


and finally a bunch of studies that show that cannabis may affect cancer.

None of which implies that "cannabis cures cancer" (again, your own words).

Cannabinoids certainly have some interesting properties that might well lead to some breakthroughs, but right now, NOTHING cures cancer. As you said, it gets cut, burnt or poisoned (all of which is preferable to dying), or it just goes into remission.

As for your general distain for "western medicine" aka medicine, you continue on with your fairy dust and good wishes. Me, I'll be over here with the scientific method and the single most successful endeavour in the history of humanity.

Sniper007 said:

TONS of things cure cancer. All day, every day. Doctors have no clue what cancer is. All they can do is cut, burn, or poison and cross their fingers.

I didn't say Cannabis was THE cure. It is A cure used by thousands with amazing efficacy. Everyone is different.

Bill Maher and Ben Affleck go at it over Islam

Mordhaus says...

The website may be biased, but the polls listed are world recognized polls that are mostly above reproach. Christianity is not at the table on this, nobody is saying that there aren't wackos involved in any religion, but realistically how many christian holy war incidents can you list in the last 20 years? I mean real incidents, not just some random guy doing one thing to a doctor or clinic, but a group of holy christian fighters blowing up swathes of people or beheading them. It's not in the same ballpark, in fact it isn't the same league, or sport.

As far as US international policy goes, we do stupid shit a lot of the time. Other times we get dragged into shit because people complain if we don't. Personally I wish we would cut our defense budget in half and tell the rest of the world to go pound sand when they ask for help, but again it is not the issue of discussion we are looking at.

The issue is whether or not Islam, due to the nature of it's teachings, promotes certain things that lead to war and/or brutal acts. The fact is that it does, assuming you follow the tenets laid forth in the Koran and other works, such as the Sunnah and the anecdotes of the 12 Imams.

What other religion currently follows these tenets in it's religious laws?

- Leaving Islam is a sin and a religious crime. Once any man or woman is officially classified as Muslim, because of birth or religious conversion, he or she will be subject to the death penalty if he or she becomes an apostate, that is, abandons his or her faith in Islam in order to become an atheist, agnostic or to convert to another religion.
- If a person has never been a Muslim, he or she can live in an Islamic state by accepting to be a dhimmi and pay a Jizyah tax. They cannot practice their religions openly and they also do not have the same rights and legal protections as Muslims.
- Death penalty for Homosexuals
- Numerous women's rights violations and restrictions
- Child marriage
- Jihad is an important religious duty for Muslims. It is only very recently that it has started to be redefined by a small amount of Muslims as being possible to be non-violent in nature.

As it stands, Islam is not a religion of peace but of strife. Unless you are a casual follower, you will be trying to promote tenets of this religion either through non-violent or violent ways. As we can see around the world and even through the events of the Arab Spring, the violent ways are far more likely.

rancor said:

Whoops, well, for all the objectivism displayed here, it still looks to me like one side of the coin. Aside from the comments from the folks I have ignored on the sift, I don't see any criticism of the USA or very much criticism of Christianity. I don't really want to be that guy, but just remember that especially in the last decade our international reputation among countries on the receiving end of bombs has gone down the crapper. All of these "opinion polls" are trying to link Islam with anti-US sentiments and methods (eg. terrorism), when it's only demonstrating the correlation. Obviously if we bomb a predominantly Muslim country and innocents die, how do you think poll results would lean among Muslims in that country? How would your religious demographic feel if Russia bombed Manhattan and killed a dozen random citizens? What about if we had no Army, Navy, or Air Force, and these bombings happened every week?

Meanwhile, citing statistics from a website which has a clear agenda of being a hit-piece on Islam is a fucking ridiculous idea. Come on, guys. If that website lists 300 polls which emphasize their point, do you think they will include a reference to even one poll which disputes it? If they sifted through thousands of polls just to find those 300, would you still have statistical confidence in their results? I admit that the multitude of sources they pulled polls from is initially impressive, but the #1 goal of statistics is to eliminate bias, and that website is pure uncut bias.

Bill Hader : Schwarzenegger Baby

Real Time with Bill Maher - Racism in America

Call the Cops - Rob Hustle ft. Liv

VoodooV says...

the point myself and others have been trying to drill into lantern's thick skull is that his claim is irrelevant. he's making a huge appeal to authority fallacy.

it's a bad case of "my dad can beat up your dad" mentality. The moment he inserted his RL into this "debate" he lost.

Even if he has been 100 percent truthful, it's all anecdotal. He's overcompensating for his small sample size again

oritteropo said:

There are approximately 780,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S., and there is just not enough police brutality (or violence against police) to go around.

I believe his claim, and probably many officers will go through their entire career without needing to use force, even if 50 officers a year are killed in the line of duty and 400 people are killed by law enforcement officers. As a simple ballpark figure, using 2011 stats, over a 30 year timeframe (would this be a typical length of a police career?), you could expect about 14,000 fatal incidents involving law enforcement officers (spread among 780,000 officers).

Moore Says Obama Remembered Solely as First Black President

newtboy says...

"Obamacare" is not as good as single payer, but it's the best he could push through, sadly. It is also a Republican plan from the mid 90's that he appropriated, and now is given credit/blame for. Single payer, his original plan, was much better and may have saved billions (by eradicating the 'insurance' industry that adds immensely to our health care cost while adding nothing positive, only cost and confusion). Oh well, thanks obstructionists...you really won that one, huh?
The US is less insolvent and moving in the opposite direction than when he became pres, so he reversed the trend towards insolvency, not accelerated it....but nice try.
Actually, Bush had more 'cronies' and known felons in his administration than anyone before or since (yet), no matter what your propaganda link said, and it actually didn't say he was the 'most crony-friendly president in history', it didn't compare him to any other administration at all except McDonnell where it made comparisons of proven apples and alleged oranges to imply Obama had 'sold' access and favors like McDonnell was convicted of without offering anything but minimal anecdotal evidence of any 'quid quo pro' or wrong doing...it actually called an appearance at a Dreamworks function a 'quid quo pro' that should be prosecuted...WHAT?! Hardly a federal indictment.
True enough, one should never believe a candidate will achieve all they promise to attempt, but they should expect them to attempt what they say they'll attempt. For that huge failing, I can't bring myself to applaud Obama's 'successes'.

Trancecoach said:

Obamacare is certainly not a "good" thing he did. It's a disaster, as is already evident to many.

As for accelerating the U.S.' insolvency, well that's both good and bad.
Alas, nothing will ever make up for his droning of innocent people, continuing most of what Bush started.

As with all Presidents, there is a devastating disappointment that they didn't do less.

While people are desperately trying to find something "good" about his presidency ("OMG! He saved GM!"), they will have to willfully overlook the fact that Obama is the most crony-friendly President in U.S. history.

I agree with Moore that Obama will be remembered as the country's first (half) black President. And with any luck, as a warning to Americans not to believe in such promises of "hope" and "change" coming from any politicians ever again... or believe anything from any politician ever.

Why Do We Have More Boys Than Girls?

bareboards2 says...

I don't know if it is junk science, but I read that boy baby rate is plummeting. The postulation is all the plastics in the environment are increasing estrogen in men's systems and they are making fewer Y sperm.

Or something like that. I'm too lazy to google it. But @ChaosEngine 's anecdote bears some witness to this.

Why Do We Have More Boys Than Girls?

ChaosEngine says...

Interesting. Since I've reached the age where my peers are having kids, of the 20 or so kids born to various friends in the last 3 or 4 years, there have been only 3 boys.

Obviously this is anecdotal, but I wonder if the stress of living in a post earthquake city has affected the birth rate?

Why I Don't Like the Police

VoodooV says...

oooo, and now more anecdotes.

For a brief moment there you were actually having a constructive discussion.

A brief moment.

lantern53 said:

jeez, there's more casual violence in the average flag football game than there were in my 30 years of LE experience.

Also, you don't use your gun as a club, get real.

Dying from pepper spray? Unlikely, but people have died from being handcuffed. I've seen dead people who died while taking a nap, people in their 30s. There is risk in everything. Kids die from choking on breakfast cereal. Whattya gonna do?

I remember picking up this dude at the county jail, had some kind of breathing apparatus on him. I put him in back of my cruiser and the a/c was barely working and wasn't reaching the back seat at all, real hot day. I'm watching him in the mirror and he's fading. I thought, good god, this guy could die back there. So I pulled off the freeway and opened the door. 'Get in the front!'. I put the vents on him and he started coming around and before long we were talking football.
Of course, you won't see any video of that.



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