>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
>> ^rosekat:
SO true. The double standard some vegetarians present is ridiculous. Also, veggies who wear leather are quite intriguing ethical conundrums, aren't they? This is one of my favourite of theirs.

Psh, like we all wear Cat sweaters and rock Peta bumper stickers.
I personally avoid dead animal flesh because i'm not a lion or vulture.
Don't you think it's strange we're the only animals that have to cook other animals before we eat them. (Or risk food poisoning, worms, death)
Also, I don't think the criticism is quite justified.
Vegetarians only eat plants. So why would one go purchase or have meat lying around just in case?
You guys are probably omnivorous. So you'd expect an omnivore to have a few vegatarian options about.
Likewise, if at a "Carnitarian's" house, is it appropriate to give them guff about not having any vegetables in the crisper drawer? And question why they have house plants?
I understand the joke, but if you put thought into it.. it doesn't quite make sense.




most omnivorous and meet eaters are susceptible to the same worms and problems with meat . but if u kill something fresh its normally fine , you don't actual have to cook Manny meats , Fish, Beef,Dear,Lamb,spring buck, maggots , lavee , so long as you get it fresh.

due to the way we kill animals and store them and genraly dont eat fresh fresh it dose make it safer to cook alot of meets but this also applies to vegetables and other non meet produce. I think Rice is actually one of the more common ways for people to get serous food poisoning Evan over meat.

I think in the case of most meats the more you cook it the more you actually lose from the meat where as with most vegetables light cooking increases there nutritional value as what is lost is replaced by the ablity for the stumach to better digest more of it.


Im just looking forward to the time we can grow meats so that we don't have to deprive creatures of life in order to eat something tasty and different from vegetables. Its also a shame that in most western cultures its frowned apon to eat larvii and bugs, when they make an excellent food source and also consume waste , would make far more sence than killing large wasteful and relitavly intelligent creatures like cows.

>> ^rosekat:
SO true. The double standard some vegetarians present is ridiculous. Also, veggies who wear leather are quite intriguing ethical conundrums, aren't they? This is one of my favourite of theirs.


Psh, like we all wear Cat sweaters and rock Peta bumper stickers.

I personally avoid dead animal flesh because i'm not a lion or vulture.

Don't you think it's strange we're the only animals that have to cook other animals before we eat them. (Or risk food poisoning, worms, death)

Also, I don't think the criticism is quite justified.
Vegetarians only eat plants. So why would one go purchase or have meat lying around just in case?

You guys are probably omnivorous. So you'd expect an omnivore to have a few vegatarian options about.

Likewise, if at a "Carnitarian's" house, is it appropriate to give them guff about not having any vegetables in the crisper drawer? And question why they have house plants?

I understand the joke, but if you put thought into it.. it doesn't quite make sense.

Hang on, so you admit that we can't get all we need from just fruit/vegies and grain, and yet you then attack me for saying it's not what we're built for???

We ARE built to be omnivorous (not carnivorous as you say). I have NO ISSUE with people choosing to be vegetarian (vegan is a little off the deep end to my thinking, I mean really, do you think a chicken really cares if you use their eggs? Considering my chickens leave them lying around the garden to go off if we don't... I don't think they give a crap)

My issue is with people saying 'The solution is for us all to be vegetarians'. No, that doesn't solve things at all. So, yes we ARE designed to be omnivorous, our bodies need the nutrients gleaned from meat, our teeth are designed to tear meat, if we were purely herbivores we'd have grinding teeth only like cows... and maybe two stomachs.

And seeing as B12 is VERY important for a growing body, and isn't found in ANY part of a vegan diet... well, they can go to hell if they try to tell me it's the way we should all live, because they're taking artificial supplements probably derived from animal products in order to keep up the required vitamins their body needs that they aren't getting because they're not eating meat like they're designed to.

My issue with with those like Peta who put animals over humans, and are hypocritical in what they preach as they have harmed people in the name of stopping cruelty to animals, which seems insane, as we're animals too.

Anyway... I have vegetarian friends, I enjoy vegetarian food, I believe we need to eat more vegetables (you should see the helping we have every night with our meals, and we have our own vegie patch)... but I don't want to cut out meat entirely, I don't think others should be being high and mighty over others who don't want to and feeling all superior for being vegetarian.

>> ^Tupho:
>> ^direpickle:
Well, to be fair, there are nutrients that humans need that aren't naturally available without eating animals or animal products. Vegans need to (should, anyway--asking for trouble if they don't) take supplements to get their B12.


That is correct direpickle, as far as I know.
Still its really annoying when people who really are intellegent and have otherwise sound values (yes i´m talking about you spoco2:) conclude that we´re just supposed to eat meat. We are not designed to be carnivours, we can choose.
But I don´t think the killing is the real issue. No human knows how animals or vegetables for that sake experience things. We can only assume. It´s the sympthomes of humans fancying ourselves being some kind of superiour existence that make me feel unpleasant. Even if we assume animals experience pain the same way we do, it doesn´t stop us from treating them like shit. Unnecessarily too.

>> ^spoco2:

The answer is so very NOT a vegetarian/vegan diet, we're built to be omnivorous. It's what we're designed for, it's what our teeth and gut is for.
What we're NOT designed for is the VERY overly processed 'meat products' like pressed meat patties which are only a percentage meat.


I've heard this argument before and it drives me crazy. Are you a religious person? And if so are you trying to convince us that you can't go to heaven if you don't eat meat. I have seen enough vegans/vegetarians live long healthy lives to know that it doesnt matter what we are "designed" to eat.

It's perfectly possible to treat animals better than this and still feed people perfectly well.

The PROBLEM is that people have come to expect a ridiculously low price on things like chicken. The price paid for a whole chicken for cooking is insanely low. Too low to be sustainable in such a way that the animals are actually treated fairly.

If the animals are raised in an environment where they can move about, scratch and do their natural actions, and are then humanely and quickly killed, then I have no issue eating them.

When this is done so heartlessly (those people on the production line flinging the poor chicks into the chutes), and with a disregard for the fact that those are living creatures.

THEN

Then I have a problem.

The answer is so very NOT a vegetarian/vegan diet, we're built to be omnivorous. It's what we're designed for, it's what our teeth and gut is for.

What we're NOT designed for is the VERY overly processed 'meat products' like pressed meat patties which are only a percentage meat.

Properly cooked, low fat meats are very good for you and help you in many ways, and when realistic thoughts on how much such meat should cost prevail and more animals are reared humanely, then maybe we can all feel better about things.

And one way to handle the increase in price that SHOULD happen for meats? Eat more vegies and fruit... yep, I don't want to be exclusively a vegan/vegetarian, but I think we don't eat enough fruit, vegies and grain anymore, and if we upped the consumption of those and had less serving size of meat, then the extra cost of the meat would be handled by having smaller, more healthy servings.

Healthier people, happier animals, better planet... Huzzah for all!

OK, so I'll make a list now, and then read everybody elses and see if it reminds me of other books that really stick with me

1 Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid - Douglas Hofstadter
2 1984 - George Orwell
3 A Deepness In The Sky - Vernor Vinge
4 Interview With A Vampire - Ann Rice
5 Cyberpunk: Outlaws and Hackers on the Computer Frontier - Katie Hafner and John Markoff
6 The Tuning of The World - R. Murray Schafer
7 The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins
8 National Geographic Picture Atlas of Our Universe - Roy A. Gallant and Margaret Sedeen
9 The Perfectionist: Life and Death in Haute Cuisine - Rudolph Chelminski
10 The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals - Michael Pollan

OK, read others' and realize that I should have put Dune, for sure. I'm glad to see I'm not the only Hofstadter fan, and thrilled to see another Vinge on the list.

I feel kind of weird to have 1984 and Interview with a Vampire on my list. 1984, just because it really did stick and resonate, and well... I've probably read IwaV a few dozen times. Back in junior high I read it almost monthly.

I actually was considering putting The Star Wars Sourcebook by Bill Slavicsek & Curtis Smith on my list. That book blew my mind when I was young, and it definitely will always have a special place in my heart. Now that I look at a picture of the cover on Amazon, I wish that I had. Such an awesome book.

Does PETA realize that without eating meat our ancient ancestors never would have developed the brain we have today? As well that if as a species if we stopped eating meat we would become less intelligent with each generation?

We are omnivores after all. Not eating meat is simply wrong. I can see being against the slaughter houses and all that stuff, but we eat meat for a reason. If anything hunt your own meat if your against the meat industry. It's an important part of our biochemistry.

Never liked the Sims all that much, but I'm all over Spore. And I don't see how he figures it's hard to be an herbivore. I've brought carnivores and herbivores into space from the cell stage, and honestly I thought the herbivores had it a lot easier.

Omnivores are probably the easiest, though you do have to watch how your actions affect your evolution and make sure you aren't drifting too much towards the herbivore or carnivore side of things.

Oh and I think more than half of the video time here was spent on ads...

Great VideoSiftic moment, great post:)
KP's omnivorous, eating both obscure and mainstream
and often participates during debates/discussions on the Forum VideoSiftum
Here's to Kronosposeidon, a man of many members, cheers:)
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5074/kronosposeidonze7.jpg

Haha, I love it. We've all got to have something to be hypocritical about. And yes, PETA's methods are a big part of what I was referring to.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
all good man.. i chose the video carefully for the reasons you describe... i can't stand PETA's methods.

and i am not so much saying "don't eat meat" as "don't pollute the fucking planet just because you like the taste of something carcinogenic".

i smoke by the way
hypocrisy is great.

In reply to this comment by JAPR:
You have a point there. I just don't like things that basically tell me that my eating meat is bad. I don't actually even eat meat every day, and while some people do consume too much, I think that people go about trying to convince people to eat less meat the wrong way. Shocking images like slaughterhouse photos, videos showing animals pooping (I watched the whole video before voting, in case you were wondering), etc. just don't really do much other than annoy people a lot of the time. Sure you'll get a few people who will be "you know, they've got a point," but it mainly just gets people defensive about things.

For the record I have tons of vegetarian friends and don't see anything wrong with being vegetarian. I just would prefer that people didn't preach to me, just as I don't preach to them. I found the message in that video okay, but the video itself was just annoying and silly to me, so I downvoted. I will admit though, that the thing of having just one day where they don't eat meat was one of the most reasonable suggestions I've seen on this issue, as opposed to the whole "EATING MEAT IS EVIL AND YOU SHOULD STOP" thing that usually gets thrown at people. I hope it makes it out of the sift, and on second thought maybe I should have upvoted to promote discussion, but unfortunately votes can't be changed.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

and your point about climate change was...?

In reply to this comment by JAPR:
Fucking vegitarian nuts. Omnivores: we eat meat AND vegetables. Now excuse me while I eat an entire cow by myself.

all good man.. i chose the video carefully for the reasons you describe... i can't stand PETA's methods.

and i am not so much saying "don't eat meat" as "don't pollute the fucking planet just because you like the taste of something carcinogenic".

i smoke by the way
hypocrisy is great.

In reply to this comment by JAPR:
You have a point there. I just don't like things that basically tell me that my eating meat is bad. I don't actually even eat meat every day, and while some people do consume too much, I think that people go about trying to convince people to eat less meat the wrong way. Shocking images like slaughterhouse photos, videos showing animals pooping (I watched the whole video before voting, in case you were wondering), etc. just don't really do much other than annoy people a lot of the time. Sure you'll get a few people who will be "you know, they've got a point," but it mainly just gets people defensive about things.

For the record I have tons of vegetarian friends and don't see anything wrong with being vegetarian. I just would prefer that people didn't preach to me, just as I don't preach to them. I found the message in that video okay, but the video itself was just annoying and silly to me, so I downvoted. I will admit though, that the thing of having just one day where they don't eat meat was one of the most reasonable suggestions I've seen on this issue, as opposed to the whole "EATING MEAT IS EVIL AND YOU SHOULD STOP" thing that usually gets thrown at people. I hope it makes it out of the sift, and on second thought maybe I should have upvoted to promote discussion, but unfortunately votes can't be changed.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

and your point about climate change was...?

In reply to this comment by JAPR:
Fucking vegitarian nuts. Omnivores: we eat meat AND vegetables. Now excuse me while I eat an entire cow by myself.

You have a point there. I just don't like things that basically tell me that my eating meat is bad. I don't actually even eat meat every day, and while some people do consume too much, I think that people go about trying to convince people to eat less meat the wrong way. Shocking images like slaughterhouse photos, videos showing animals pooping (I watched the whole video before voting, in case you were wondering), etc. just don't really do much other than annoy people a lot of the time. Sure you'll get a few people who will be "you know, they've got a point," but it mainly just gets people defensive about things.

For the record I have tons of vegetarian friends and don't see anything wrong with being vegetarian. I just would prefer that people didn't preach to me, just as I don't preach to them. I found the message in that video okay, but the video itself was just annoying and silly to me, so I downvoted. I will admit though, that the thing of having just one day where they don't eat meat was one of the most reasonable suggestions I've seen on this issue, as opposed to the whole "EATING MEAT IS EVIL AND YOU SHOULD STOP" thing that usually gets thrown at people. I hope it makes it out of the sift, and on second thought maybe I should have upvoted to promote discussion, but unfortunately votes can't be changed.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

and your point about climate change was...?

In reply to this comment by JAPR:
Fucking vegitarian nuts. Omnivores: we eat meat AND vegetables. Now excuse me while I eat an entire cow by myself.

and your point about climate change was...?

In reply to this comment by JAPR:
Fucking vegitarian nuts. Omnivores: we eat meat AND vegetables. Now excuse me while I eat an entire cow by myself.

JAPR... for you...
an article in favour of calling humans omnivores:

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

interesting extracts:
"All the available evidence indicates that the natural human diet is omnivorous and would include meat. We are not, however, required to consume animal protein. We have a choice."

Conclusion
"Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns."

and you downvoted this video because what...?

more about omnivores (who NAURALLY eat meat and digest it properly rather than human omnivores who CAN eat meat for survival but it fucks up the planet and gives them cancer)
http://www.goveg.com/naturalhumandiet_physiology.asp

Fucking vegitarian nuts. Omnivores: we eat meat AND vegetables. Now excuse me while I eat an entire cow by myself.