>> ^grinter:

It's not the strongest argument, but, for the sake of continuity, consider what the reaction of Sift omnivores would be if they were forced to slaughter their own meat. Even those claiming they feel no moral imperative to respect the suffering of other animals might wince just a bit as that calf calls for it's mother in its last moments of consciousness.


I'm sure at least a few sifters are also hunters or at the very least, anglers. Personally, I've never killed a farm animal, but I have caught and killed fish. I am morally comfortable with killing for food. Hell I'm comfortable with killing for a lot less than that and so are most people, including vegans. Or are they happy to live in a cockroach infested apartment or a termite/woodworm riddled house?

..thing is, we all have parts of our lives that suffer from a lack of introspection. We may feel just fine about our actions and beliefs without seeing how they contradict with our set of values. This contradiction can be so great that it is very difficult to accept as an innocent error of the kind we should expect ourselves to make; it shakes out egos.

It's not the strongest argument, but, for the sake of continuity, consider what the reaction of Sift omnivores would be if they were forced to slaughter their own meat. Even those claiming they feel no moral imperative to respect the suffering of other animals might wince just a bit as that calf calls for it's mother in its last moments of consciousness.

I don't think the links he's making make much sense. By his argument, every time we do something morally wrong or intellectually stupid, it contradicts our belief that we are good or smart. However, I don't think most people believe they are so good, or so smart, that they will always make the correct choice. Making bad choices isn't a conflict of character. It's the reality of being imperfect beings. This doesn't parallel the cultists who invest their entire identity in the idea that they are making a particular important decision correctly and later have to face the fact they were not.

The case of factory farms also seems inappropriate. We've seen several animal slaughter/torture videos on the sift. Most omnivores in the comments don't deny that modern farm animals live miserable tortured lives, nor that our meat consumption is responsible for their situation. Instead they argue that there's no moral imperative for one species (humans) to treat another species (pigs) well. If that's how you feel about it, then you can chow down on pork chops without any cognitive dissonance whatsoever.

No offence but if you eat meat you aren't vegetarian. There's no classification of "almost vegetarian." Its called being an omnivore. The BBC news article about this spider specifically states "diet is almost completely vegetarian - although occasionally topped up with a little ant larvae at times."

This spider is still cool but the video is a *fail for being misleading and for not showing any actual VIDEO of said spider. If I wasnt a probationary member I'd downvote this.

BTW if anyone wants to see a real video of this spider look here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8302535.stm

This could all be solved by feeding dogs the diet they evolved for, garbage. Grey wolves were already not at all picky eaters, but over 15,000 years of domestication dogs have become quite omnivorous. An all table-scrap diet would have been completely ordinary for a dog in the US a century ago, and is still what most dogs worldwide eat. I doubt it's quite as balanced as commercial dog food, but we don't need to optimize the longevity of dogs, just give them good lives while they're around.

Monkeys.

You say tom-AY-to I say tom-AH-to.

http://videosift.com/video/Monkeys-A-Short-Movie-About-What-We-Are

>> ^nanrod:

Chimps are not monkeys. I'm not sure what they mean by "unfamiliar monkey". This implies that there are "familiar monkeys" that chimps don't bother. I presume that chimps as predator omnivores are prepared to eat any monkey they can catch.

Chimps are not monkeys. I'm not sure what they mean by "unfamiliar monkey". This implies that there are "familiar monkeys" that chimps don't bother. I presume that chimps as predator omnivores are prepared to eat any monkey they can catch.

"The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me..."

These are words of the herd, not of the pack, like us.

Do you remember?

You and I hunted on the plain past the mounds of dust.

Omnivorous, we ate everything in our path.

I remember that day distinctly.

When a little god and I

Ran rampant across the Savannah

Bears are NOT Vegetarians!!!
Bears are Omnivorous, just like man, in fact, their most favorite meal is Salmon!!!!

>> ^KnivesOut:
I mostly stay away from eating mammals, and instead eat fish and birds. Why? Because they're leaner and easier on your digestive system. I don't have any moral qualms with the idea of eating beef or pork, I just don't want to ingest them. I'm also not going to give anyone guff about doing it. When we entertained family for the holidays, I cooked them a beautiful ham, as well as a lovely turkey.
For me it's not a question of morality but health. My only point is that omnivorism is an analog spectrum, and most people fall somewhere in the middle. There's a big difference between vegetarians, vegans, and those that just avoid meat for health reasons.


"Guff"?? *punches*

I mostly stay away from eating mammals, and instead eat fish and birds. Why? Because they're leaner and easier on your digestive system. I don't have any moral qualms with the idea of eating beef or pork, I just don't want to ingest them. I'm also not going to give anyone guff about doing it. When we entertained family for the holidays, I cooked them a beautiful ham, as well as a lovely turkey.

For me it's not a question of morality but health. My only point is that omnivorism is an analog spectrum, and most people fall somewhere in the middle. There's a big difference between vegetarians, vegans, and those that just avoid meat for health reasons.

As I understand it, humans have been cooking food for so long now that it has guided our evolution. Thus we now have smaller teeth and jaw muscles and a shorter intestinal tract. Cooking has become a sort of external pre-digestive tract, tenderising meat, softening hard seeds, breaking down toxic and irritating substances in roots and leaves, and releasing nutrients bound up in plant cells.

You could say that humans are not omnivores, they are cookivores.
>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
>> ^westy:
most omnivorous and meet eaters are..
2. Just because we can eat meat, like chimps and bonobos sometimes, doesn't mean we're designed to consume the huge quantities of flesh many humans (Uhmerikans) consume.
3. Shouldn't humans have important things like fangs and claws and stronger jaws or digestive fluid if we were designed for that purpose?

>> ^westy:
most omnivorous and meet eaters are..

:: deeeeep breath ::

-- My comments were an attempt to dispel the idea that the majority of vegetarians/vegans are some treehumping hypocritical carebear squad.

I'm not saying that meat is evil or trying to convert.
I simply feel like vegetarians/vegans get a lot of undo criticism for attempting to do something that benefits everyone.

This Mitchell & Webb is a prime example. And it leads to counter-vegetarian babble that is just, if not more, annoying..


-- So yeah Westy. People eat steaks rare, i like sushi, and it's common sense that any type of rotten food will make you sick.

Tho:
1. Most humans never eat fresh raw meat. So that point is sorta moot..

2. Just because we can eat meat, like chimps and bonobos sometimes, doesn't mean we're designed to consume the huge quantities of flesh many humans (Uhmerikans) consume.

3. Shouldn't humans have important things like fangs and claws and stronger jaws or digestive fluid if we were designed for that purpose?

4. If you found a three day old carrot or apple sitting in the sun.. you could still eat it. .. raw


-- Vegetarianism is a choice. For many (most) of us it's based on reasonable observations we come to.

Humans don't have hunt animals to survive the winter any more..
Plants are more easily produced, healthier, and have other benefits we know about and exploit already..

So it's frustrating that stereotypical thinking like this only adds to the stigma and dumb counterpoints of eating less meat.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
>> ^rosekat:
SO true. The double standard some vegetarians present is ridiculous. Also, veggies who wear leather are quite intriguing ethical conundrums, aren't they? This is one of my favourite of theirs.

Psh, like we all wear Cat sweaters and rock Peta bumper stickers.
I personally avoid dead animal flesh because i'm not a lion or vulture.
Don't you think it's strange we're the only animals that have to cook other animals before we eat them. (Or risk food poisoning, worms, death)
Also, I don't think the criticism is quite justified.
Vegetarians only eat plants. So why would one go purchase or have meat lying around just in case?
You guys are probably omnivorous. So you'd expect an omnivore to have a few vegatarian options about.
Likewise, if at a "Carnitarian's" house, is it appropriate to give them guff about not having any vegetables in the crisper drawer? And question why they have house plants?
I understand the joke, but if you put thought into it.. it doesn't quite make sense.

Relax, it's a great piece of script that handles a common social conflict with a bit of depth and real humour (and makes perfect effing sense). It's not a personal attack on you! I'm sure you're wonderful

We don't have to cook our food. I love sushi. We're perfectly capable of eating any meat raw. There is a tiny risk of food borne illness, though. That's not unique to humans -- our vet didn't want us feeding our dog raw chicken.

Humans and animals both get more calories from cooked meat (or almost any food). Humans are just the only creatures smart enough to use the tool.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
>> ^rosekat:
SO true. The double standard some vegetarians present is ridiculous. Also, veggies who wear leather are quite intriguing ethical conundrums, aren't they? This is one of my favourite of theirs.

Psh, like we all wear Cat sweaters and rock Peta bumper stickers.
I personally avoid dead animal flesh because i'm not a lion or vulture.
Don't you think it's strange we're the only animals that have to cook other animals before we eat them. (Or risk food poisoning, worms, death)
Also, I don't think the criticism is quite justified.
Vegetarians only eat plants. So why would one go purchase or have meat lying around just in case?
You guys are probably omnivorous. So you'd expect an omnivore to have a few vegatarian options about.
Likewise, if at a "Carnitarian's" house, is it appropriate to give them guff about not having any vegetables in the crisper drawer? And question why they have house plants?
I understand the joke, but if you put thought into it.. it doesn't quite make sense.