>> ^bareboards2:

@shinyblurry, have you heard of "Blue Dog Democrats"? They are conservative Dems not much different from right of center Republicans. Obama had to get his own party together.
And the whole "individual mandate" thing came from Heritage Foundation ideas for how it could be done.
Obama started with single payer and ended up with this pastiche of ideas that is somewhat painful.
That is compromise and that is principle.
Republicans gutting the "death panels" from Medicare to make political points, when those "death panels" have been proven to 1) provide comfort to the family and the patient 2) after the patient dies, the survivors have much better mental health because they knew they were following their loved ones' wishes and 3) saves a buttload of money spent on unwanted-by-the-patient extraordinary measures. That is unprincipled.
I'm still mad about the "death panels." Putting political points before what is best for American citizens and American taxpayers. Shameful. Full on shameful.


So, basically what you're saying is, it was okay for Obama to leave the republicans out of the negotiation process, and that he is still a hero because he had to negotiate within his own party? Come on. That's not real compromise, and it certainly isn't real leadership. You have to remember that he promised to bring people together and reach across the aisle; yet when it came to his signature legislation, he took the low road, and that because he could. He was more than happy to leave the republicans out of the loop.

I don't have any comment on death panels because I haven't really researched the issue. By default, I don't trust the government to manage anything right, and certainly not my health care. I agree with the principle of small government, because big government is exponentially more corrupt than small government. In any human institution you will have corruption, because mans nature is inherently sinful. The more power you give, the more corrupt it will be.

@shinyblurry, have you heard of "Blue Dog Democrats"? They are conservative Dems not much different from right of center Republicans. Obama had to get his own party together.

And the whole "individual mandate" thing came from Heritage Foundation ideas for how it could be done.

Obama started with single payer and ended up with this pastiche of ideas that is somewhat painful.

That is compromise and that is principle.

Republicans gutting the "death panels" from Medicare to make political points, when those "death panels" have been proven to 1) provide comfort to the family and the patient 2) after the patient dies, the survivors have much better mental health because they knew they were following their loved ones' wishes and 3) saves a buttload of money spent on unwanted-by-the-patient extraordinary measures. That is unprincipled.

I'm still mad about the "death panels." Putting political points before what is best for American citizens and American taxpayers. Shameful. Full on shameful.

Tired of that $2.6 Million Program that Teaches Chinese Prostitutes to Drink?

by John Ransom


Liberty is about a lot of things; it’s a deep topic. But at its core liberty can be summed up in one simple and reciprocal concept. That concept is respect.

You know the 2010 last election was about many things, but it was mostly about respect.

It was about starting to restore the respect that people have in government, by getting the government to restore the respect that they show to you…by taking liberty seriously.

If you are like me, you think that many of our elected officials from both the right and the left truly believe that what they think of you is much more important than what you think of them.

If you’re like me you’re tired of a trillion dollars in so-called stimulus spending that went to mob-connected asphalt contractors rather than the pockets of working families who own businesses and pay taxes and do all the working and dreaming in this country.

If you’re like me, you’re tired of a $2.6 million program that teaches Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly while unemployment soars across the country.

If you’re like me, you're tired of an arrogant federal government which pays out $47 billion in fraudulent claims in Medicare every year while they lecture the rest of us about healthcare economics.

If you are like me, you’re tired of the US Postal service wasting $30 million on a program that pays 1100 employees to do nothing. Yes, today, the US Post Office sat 1100 employees in empty rooms, as they do every day, and literally paid them to do nothing. They can’t play cards; they can’t watch TV, in fact they can’t do anything at all. To the tune of $30 million per year.


Yet this very same federal government comes to us now and proposes to manage our healthcare, our retirement, the education of our children, the auto industry, the oil industry, pharmaceuticals, the mortgage industry and lectures the American people that they are under-regulated.

If you’re a middle American like me, from the grassroots, I bet you know someone who owns their own business; if you’re like me you probably know someone who has paid employees of that business on time every week, but hasn’t been able to pay themselves a dime. Yet these very same people who provide half the new jobs in our economy, who have lost money over the last few years, still owe the government tens of thousands of dollars in taxes every year. People wonder where our jobs have gone? They’ve been crushed by a system that doesn’t honor job creation; by a system that doesn’t honor liberty; a system that gives no respect.

And if you are like most of the voters I speak to, you are tired of insiders from Washington and Wall Street on both sides of the aisle, and their wasteful spending schemes that don’t even propose to solve the very issues facing Main Street and working families.

Let’s suppose global warming is real; I don’t think it is, but let’s say it's so for the sake of argument. Show me please how the Renewable Electricity Standard-- which will cost American families $1800 per year-- please show me how it’s going to lower the earth’s temperature. They can’t because the Renewable Electricity Standard wasn’t created to combat global warming and it won’t lower the earth’s temperature.

Ok, so let’s suppose the issue is carbon emission; that carbon is really bad and we have to get it out of our atmosphere. Show me please how the Renewable Electricity Standard is going to reduce the amount of carbon in our atmosphere. They can’t. It wasn’t designed to do that and it won’t do that.

The government doesn't write legislation with solutions in mind, but rather with power and control of your very lives. And it is inside of your lives where you will wrestle back that control.

I’m often reminded that it’s with readers just like you where many of the seminal events of our country happened. It’s in rooms just like you’re in right now that a small group of patriots in Massachusetts planned the Boston Tea Party; it’s in groups just like you are a part of today that was born the Mayflower Compact; it’s in the free association of our citizens, for the common good and with common respect, that the greatness and goodness of our country will always be found.

And as long as people like you, freely associate for the common good and meet in respect, our country will always remain both great and good.

But ordinary people are paying attention, actually reading the Constitution; people are actually asking questions about the 10th Amendment, asking: What kind of power does Washington really have over us?

Unfortunately, there aren’t enough people who have been awakened to that yet, that’s why readers like you are so important. Each individual reading this is so incredibly important because the job you have this year as a citizen has never, ever, ever been more important. The 2012 election is going to determine what it’s like to live in this country for a long time. It’s going to be people just like you, having conversation just like this, in rooms across America that are going to make a difference.

This is the chance to turn the tide. The chance we have today is to bury that last vestiges of big government in our country; to reclaim our liberty from a new deal and replace it with a true deal.

I’ve been very fortunate because over the last half dozen years I’ve been able to travel all around the country working with grassroots activists just like you. I understand, I think, better than elected officials, what makes the grassroots so special. It's you and your ability to communicate.

We have all these new tools available for citizens to communicate that just a few years ago we didn’t have. A few years ago readers wouldn’t have been as energized and as informed because we didn’t have the ability to communicate as we do now. We have been so fractured and fragmented all around the country and around the nation that we feel like we can’t do anything, that Washington is so big and out of touch that we can’t do anything.

In fact, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Now is the time we really do have the opportunity. For the first time in our history ordinary citizens have the ability to communicate with one another over the heads of the media in publications like Townhall. We are networked on social media sites, like Facebook and Twitter that expose us to thousands of people for free.

But when I was growing up there were three TV stations and two newspapers in every town that decided what the news was. There were probably a dozen people in any town that picked our news for us.

Those days are over.

This election isn’t about voting for the next person standing in a long line of elites who will rule over us; it’s about what kind of country we want to be in the future.

It’s about preserving the American dream right here right now. Because when they mess with our liberty, they really mess with our ability to dream.

I believe that the ability to dream is worth handing down to our kids.

I believe that it’s our dreams that makes us the most dynamic country in the world.

It’s the dream that brings jobs and prosperity to the US.

It’s a dream that treats promises like they really matter.

And it’s the dreams that are the promise of America.

Because when politicians treat the promises they campaign on like they matter, when they are held accountable to those pledges-- by us-- we will restore the respect they owe us.

An interesting discussion on both sides. I am in no way an Obama apologist [dft is not either], but I have to take exception to one statement.

@NobleOne: "I don't vote for the lesser evil."
Does that mean that you are okay with the Greater evil winning?

We already know that the GOP is using every dirty trick in the book; voter suppression, voter disenfranchisement, voter registration fraud, and downright voter fraud. If the election is even close they will take it to the United States Supreme Court (brought to you by Koch Ind.). The only way we can avoid this type of crap winning is if Obama wins by a very substantial margin.

If Obama wins--and you didn't vote for him--you can say, "I didn't vote for him--I stayed idealogically pure." What will you say--if Romney wins--as we watch him dismantle SS and Medicare, women are forced into back-alley, coathanger abortions, the disparity between rich and poor is more firmly entrenched and codified, the SCOTUS is even more packed with justices bought and payed for by big money, equal rights for LBGT and minorities are rescinded, and another war of distraction is waged?

A vote for Obama means that we may be able to force him into better positions and acts. Not voting means you are fine with the GOP stealing elections and running this country into the hell of a right-wing, Christianist theocracy.

Damn these socialistics cutting socialisitic medicare. Wait what?

lol, Obama will create a 'socialistic' country and take away your medicare!

I think the news media business has evolved with the times. Not every mundane piece of event coverage is politically slanted, although it's pretty obvious when it is. And clearly by what's details are discussed or not, you can provide slant without flat out lying. Take CNN coverage of the AARP conference in New Orleans:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/21/paul-ryan-booed-during-aarp-remarks/

The fact is Paul Ryan was booed during his speech. He addressed the boos with this:

"Inaction today will mean sharp cuts tomorrow. Time and again this President has ducked the tough issues, he has put his own job security over your retirement security," continued Ryan, despite a smattering of boos coming from the audience. "Of course, he said he would be willing to work with Republicans but he has not moved an inch closer to common ground."

In addition to repealing The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, often referred to as Obamacare, Ryan said the Republican team is proposing a plan that "empowers future seniors to choose the coverage that works best for them from a list of plans that are required to offer at least the same level of benefits as traditional Medicare."



I call this responsible reporting. The controversy is brought up without any rebuttal or qualifying statements that would influence the reader one way or the other. What did Fox do with this story? They provided a transcript of Ryan's speech but otherwise ignored the story. Go look for yourself.

My highest is 27. I've got one of each profession now, and I can't seem to figure out which I enjoy most.>> ^shang:

I ROSE UP!!!
I've spent 36 years shacked in the basement of my mothers home, living off medicare & medicaid on disability, with extra cash coming from adsense ads on various blogs and such
but I ROSE UP and tossed off the shackles of oppression
and I LOGGED INTO GUILD WARS 2 WITH THE PASSION OF A MILLION NERDS CRYING OUT AS ONE!

or something like that....

level 60 Engineer so far 20 more levels to go then its dungeon raiding time

I ROSE UP!!!

I've spent 36 years shacked in the basement of my mothers home, living off medicare & medicaid on disability, with extra cash coming from adsense ads on various blogs and such

but I ROSE UP and tossed off the shackles of oppression

and I LOGGED INTO GUILD WARS 2 WITH THE PASSION OF A MILLION NERDS CRYING OUT AS ONE!


or something like that....


level 60 Engineer so far 20 more levels to go then its dungeon raiding time

Simple answers to statistically insignificant 'problems'...

1. Don't use Medicare/Medicaid.
2. Get a better plan and use those providers.
3. If you can't do 1 & 2, then pay for your own care out of pocket and deal with your providers directly.

I reject the narrow definition of what is and isn't acceptable in the vid. There's a whole world of options - all of them easily available and affordable just about anyone. All it takes is the guts, gumption, and initiative to go out there and take them. The problems this woman is harping about can be easily avoided by the vast majority of the US population. The mathematically small percentage to whom this argument applies does not merit the need of a nationalized, federal policy. People that down & out can avail themselves of the many charitable organizations that exist for the truly in need.

Oh... What? Those charitable groups tend to be religious organizations that don't want to give Sandra Fluke barrels full or free condoms, or run abortion abbotiors, and who counsel adoption instead of free, unfettered, instantly accessed, no-restriction abortions? Ah - well - now we know what this is really all about... Whatzerface isn't whining about the number of clinics. She's whining about state covering her birth control and abortions and she doesn't want to have to walk 30 minutes to get there (as if she couldn't drive). :eyeroll:

^@ bobknight33

Your 50 million is way off the # was 30 Million and that doesn't divide who can afford but choose not to get it and whose who really cant afford healthcare. (At least with the individual mandate those who can pay but choose not to are required to pay back into the system).

That # is reported around 12 million. (Where did you find this percentage i have yet to see it in an official report?).

Now is it worth you paying 2600 more in insurance just to cover 12 Million? (Covered below).

Amount of Deaths due to the absence of healthcare: More than 26,000 working-age adults die prematurely in the United States each year because they lack health insurance, according to a study by the consumer advocacy group Families USA, estimates that a record high of 26,100 people aged 25 to 64 died for lack of health coverage in 2010, up from 20,350 in 2005 and 18,000 in 2000. also 22,000 deaths nationwide in 2006.

"Lives are truly on the line," said Families USA Executive Director Ron Pollack, who supports the reform law. "If the Affordable Care Act moves forward and we expand coverage for tens of millions of people, the number of avoidable deaths due to being uninsured will decrease significantly."

What is the republican healthcare solution?.

Source: Reuters, 6/20/2012 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47892292/ns/health-health_care/t/report-uninsured-americans-die-each-year/#.UEKmKdbiZO8.

the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation has analyzed census data to provide a closer look at the people without health insurance in the U.S. Its report, focused on people younger than age 65, found 45.7 million "nonelderly" uninsured people in the U.S. last year (including the elderly, the number of uninsured was 46.3 million). Low-income adults without dependent children — who generally do not qualify for government programs like Medicaid — were hit hardest. Despite heated rhetoric on the issue, immigrants are not driving the problem; 80% of the uninsured under age 65 are native-born or naturalized citizens. The uncompensated cost of providing health care to the uninsured last year was $57 billion, three-quarters of which was picked up by the Federal Government.

Most uninsured Americans work: Of those under age 65 without insurance, 8 in 10 are members of working families. Only 19% are in families with no one working. However, 62% of the uninsured have no education beyond high school, limiting their ability to boost their incomes or advance to jobs that may offer health care. The uninsured were three times more likely to have trouble meeting basic monthly expenses like rent and food.

Of those without health insurance, 11% reported being in fair or poor health, compared with 5% with private coverage. Nearly a quarter of the uninsured say they've forgone medical care in the past year due to its cost, compared with 4% who receive private care. As a result, the uninsured are more likely to be hospitalized for avoidable health problems.

Government programs are making a difference for children: Despite overall increases, the number of uninsured children last year fell by 800,000, to 8.1 million, thanks to expansions in Medicaid and state programs covering minors. (The total in 2006 was 9.4 million).

Young adults with no children are especially vulnerable: Programs such as Medicaid and Medicare insure millions of parents, children and disabled people. But low earners without dependent children are offered few resources when it comes to health insurance; they comprise 58% of uninsured Americans as a result. At 30%, those ages 19 to 29 have the highest uninsured rate. Racial minorities are also disproportionately represented; about one-third of Hispanics and one-fifth of blacks go without insurance, compared with 13% of whites.

Most people know that millions of Americans lack health insurance, but this report helps give that enormous group a human face. That many unemployed workers lack health insurance is not a surprise, but many of us may not realize that so many working people do as well — a troubling fact that lends credence to the reform efforts under way.

Source: TIME, Oct. 14, 2009 http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1930096,00.html#ixzz25GkXZCFq

They have not the slightest concern about lying, do they?

Protecting Medicare...yeah, that's what Ryan's all about. Fuckin slime...clearly the best part of him ran down his mother's leg.

I don't know why you posted that video @shinyblurry as the video contradicts your point. There is no dismantling of the AHA (grow up and call it by it's proper name you fucking child) Ryan agreed there needs to be reform and he appears to have put forth some legitimate concerns. But there is no dismantling, If he wants to fix parts of AHA, then more power to him

My point was to contradict your claim that Paul Ryan is a "Sarah Palin lite". Yes, he did dismantle a primary rationale behind Obamacare which is that health care reform is budget reform. Ryan clearly demonstrated that it is exactly the opposite as Obamacare uses shady accounting practices and steals nearly a trillion dollars from Medicare to fund itself. It is a disaster for our budget, creating another gigantic government entitlement when we can't afford the ones we have.

Healthcare should not be a for-profit system. Gov't has a vested interest in keeping its citizens healthy and happy. It's one thing to take care of our doctors and reward them for their service and knowledge. It's another to make them and the insurance companies obscenely wealthy at the cost of our well-being.

We are both agreed that the system as it is is broken and needs reforming. We are disagreeing that bigger government is the answer.

Funny how your video conveniently cuts off Obama's response. Too afraid of the opposition I see.

The video had nothing to do with the argument, only to counter your point that Paul Ryan is some sort of intellectual light weight.

Dismantling AHA is going backwards. AHA is here. Deal with it, you and your Insurance lobbyist pals lost. You have some legitimate concerns? Great..awesome. I know some Republicans who have actual rational concerns and they ought to be addressed so you don't even have united support against the AHA even in your own ranks. Republicans don't fall in line with your warped ideology anymore. And when Romney loses in November I hope the adults of your party take it back from the mental midgets who refuse to have an adult conversation and bet against this nation.

I'm an independent and I don't endorse everything the republican party does. They agree more with my values since the far left took over the democratic party, but I have actually supported democrats, both locally and nationally, in the past.

If you think Obamas re-election is in the bag then you are in denial of reality. Obama is showing some very poor numbers in many polls, and if he does win, it will be by the skin of his teeth.

Ryan wants to gut medicare. Thanks for gift-wrapping Florida for Obama.

Romney has gone public with the fact that he isn't necessarily embracing all of the elements of the Ryan plan, but will introduce his own plan. That includes medicare:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/internal-talking-points-romney-will-push-his-own-budget-proposalnot-paul-ryans-plan/




>> ^VoodooV

I don't know why you posted that video @shinyblurry as the video contradicts your point. There is no dismantling of the AHA (grow up and call it by it's proper name you fucking child) Ryan agreed there needs to be reform and he appears to have put forth some legitimate concerns. But there is no dismantling, If he wants to fix parts of AHA, then more power to him.

Healthcare should not be a for-profit system. Gov't has a vested interest in keeping its citizens healthy and happy. It's one thing to take care of our doctors and reward them for their service and knowledge. It's another to make them and the insurance companies obscenely wealthy at the cost of our well-being.

Funny how your video conveniently cuts off Obama's response. Too afraid of the opposition I see.

Dismantling AHA is going backwards. AHA is here. Deal with it, you and your Insurance lobbyist pals lost. You have some legitimate concerns? Great..awesome. I know some Republicans who have actual rational concerns and they ought to be addressed so you don't even have united support against the AHA even in your own ranks. Republicans don't fall in line with your warped ideology anymore. And when Romney loses in November I hope the adults of your party take it back from the mental midgets who refuse to have an adult conversation and bet against this nation.

Ryan wants to gut medicare. Thanks for gift-wrapping Florida for Obama.