Yes, they had isolation we don't, but also had fewer resources to work with by far, and are much closer to the outbreak in China with tons of travel between countries. I would say having a reasonable, thoughtful population that wanted to avoid being someone who spread the virus and killed people, so followed instructions nearly without exception, compared to the U.S. who had a leader denouncing closings, masks, and social distancing and a population that was happy to spread the disease for political reasons. I think that has WAY more to do with our horrific , worst on the planet per capita despite the most resources by far outcome.

We only have two borders to close. Canada is easy, just ask nicely and they'll stay home. The border with Mexico is a problem, granted, I found it odd Trump didn't use emergency powers to finish his fence when he had a legitimate reason, but that would mean admitting Covid is dangerous, but if we cooperated with Mexico to secure the border we could have minimized all international travel early.

Back to Canada, with two open borders. They have 23000 and a population of 37.59 million, so they also have a per capita death rate well under 1/2 ours, close to 1/3, and they also could have done better if we had done better. It's impossible to figure out what percentage of their infections came from the U.S., but it's definitely a significant number.

Other nations have divisions, if not states, provinces, prefecture, or some other separation of areas. I don't agree that because we have states in our country we are like the EU, because a federal law or executive order covers all states and territories, the EU has no such mechanism as far as I know.

We were the only nation with an international Global Health Security and Biodefense unit, with teams in China and elsewhere, designed to identify new diseases early to avoid pandemics. Trump is totally responsible for dismantling that office, meaning there's a likelihood every non Chinese death and most Chinese deaths would have been avoided had Trump not been butt hurt over a good system set up by Obama. His racist and political hatred put the planet at risk. That alone puts most deaths, U.S. and global, directly on his hands.

Also, the EU population is double ours, meaning with all the multiple open borders and haphazard mix of regulations from different countries, and the enormous immigrant populations, and some actual temporary lockdowns in some of their countries (but not all by far) their infection/death rates are barely over 1/2 what ours are per capita. That's not on par, sorry.

Some of their leaders have some blood on their hands because of poor or slow decisions, but few actually fought against all science and public health measures, denying the mortality rates and doctor's recommendations to convince their populations to do nothing at all to mitigate the pandemic...Brazil did....look at them now. Yes, the president of Brazil absolutely has blood on his hands, and his response mirrored Trump's.

Try reading your own posts.
What is wrong with you ?
Hate is just pouring out of you uncontrollably....consistently...hatred and....nope, no information, just hatred, insults, and whining....complaints about movies, weather, comments, complaints equating both of our last two presidents as if their foibles are equally destructive, complaints about immigration not in your country, complaints about who's to blame for the state of our border, infantile one sided attacks about speaking abilities, stupid accusations of dementia, and constant whining that someone didn't agree with your spiteful post. All your complaints come directly from the Trumptard playbook. It's possible you aren't team Trump, but you are on their side of the stadium wearing a red jersey and hat, and shouting their jeers and chants as you deny it. I went back and looked at your few posts, it's not a fluke. You are consistently dismissive and insulting off the bat and never add to conversations, you just bitch about others.
Indeed, only 3 are directed at someone besides me. Only one had any actual attempt at offering any information, most are just dismissive insults and/or complaints.

I offered plenty of information and verifiable fact from multiple sources, you did not.

I hate hypocritical liars and those who cheer them on and spread their lies or support them by consistently attacking their opponents while ignoring exponentially worse examples of the same behaviors from them, so yep, you might see some hatred. I hate those who conflate and equate totally inept evil narcissistic self dealing criminal leaders with imperfect but thoughtful and caring life long civil servants. I also dislike people who's best arguments are at place on the second grade playground, useless hate filled insults and complaints but bereft of fact, reason, and information. Where does your irrational hatred come from?

Have a great year, we'll try this again next year, but not before. Once a year is enough.

Aaaahahaha.

Another Bobesque tantrum post? How lovely.

Trying to equate the slight disappointment the international community has with Biden as president to the abject horror of Trump as president as if the disdain were equal. LMFAHS!! Ridiculously asinine.

As usual, right wing apologists can't read. Some gaps were left when construction halted after Biden halted funding, funding the courts had deemed illegal btw, but others were not. Some were planned, some were due to failures of the fence Trump chose, some were due to contractors doing half assed jobs or being incapable of the work, some due to topography, there were many excuses but in the end, it wasn't a wall, it wasn't complete, it barely extended border barriers, and many places were left less secure...none of which is Biden's fault. They knew full well the next administration wasn't continuing this plan. You don't think they should have planned for that maybe? Finished the parts they dismantled at least before the only supporter left power? Nope. Guess not. Perfectly reasonable to leave it half done and expect the next guy who campaigned against it to finish it or take all the blame for all it's failures. Didn't Donny promise to have it done his first term anyway?

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I read a few articles from multiple sources on both sides before responding...not just the one particular cherry picked one you linked...i know better.

Not half ever wanted the wall, and likely under 1/3 want more poorly built fencing now that we've seen how horrible it is. Over half want the border secured, but that's not the same as support for the dumb wall/fence. Border security isn't just a fence, it comes in all flavors. Indeed, many agree that the best way to stem immigration is not building barriers both physical and institutional, but to increase anti narco terrorism funding in central America and end the war on drugs. Starve the drug gangs of money, they'll lose power and stop driving families out.

It was absolutely NOT paid for, Trump had to use an executive order to redirect funds that were earmarked by congress to pay for military family housing, because he couldn't get congress to pay for his boondoggle, much less Mexico as promised. If it had been fully funded, it would have been fully built.

Biden is not doing well at immigration. In his defense, he was left a clusterfuck, but he hasn't solved any major problems yet. As an adult, I'm capable of admitting that easily. The level of incompetence between him and Trump, however, are worlds apart, and the approaches are as well. One dehumanized and demonized immigrants, the other seems to be at least trying to get a working immigration and refugee system back in place, but is moving slowly. Your implications that they're both equally awful indicates either a strong bias for Trump, or strong break with reality.

I and others have clearly said many times on other threads, Biden is failing at immigration, and failing at being prepared to accept immigrant children. As a seeming right wing apologist at best, you seem blind and deaf to those complaints from the left and pretend we are childishly hypocritical instead....so no, you're far from getting it right, you're getting it totally backwards and twisted. Derp.

Another empty complaint/accusation. What fake news did I spread? Pretty easy but also completely meaningless to shout "your wrong" with no explanation, no correction, no specifics. Very Trumpian of you sir.

Anybody who writes what you did about Biden must be a hypocritical and douchey Trump supporter or just a plain brown wrapper nutjob. Even with his speech impediment, Biden is clear, thoughtful, and coherent...unlike Trump who never said a complete sentence or even complete thought in four years. Your hyper biased characterizations and factless, pointless, non sequitor, insult ridden tantrums masquerading as an argument are what paint you as a Trumpster, not your baseless accusations of hypocrisy.

Now I remember why I had you on ignore. Thanks for the reminder.

I mean what I said. Trump (and his subordinates at his direction) made up new regulations, New laws, New restrictions, New limits, new procedures, and new rules that combined made it not just harder but often impossible for people who, before Trump under any administration would have been quickly granted asylum in accordance with the law. He also slowed the process for legally applying, limited the number allowed to apply in a way never done before, and created new systems where instead of waiting in the country they had to wait in another country with no services in crime ridden refugee camps if they're lucky, sometimes sent south of Mexico, many instructed to go home and wait, homes they fled under direct and credible threats of death or worse....many after having their children taken.

Trump did not simply "enforce current laws". He changed them, misinterpreted them, ignored them repeatedly and flagrantly, then enforced those he liked. Consistently the intent was to minimize any immigration as much as possible from countries that aren't predominantly white. Not once was the intent to streamline the system so it would improve, every step was designed to slow the process and deny entry to as many people as possible, even those with legitimate life or death reasons for asylum. He even changed those rules to exclude narco terrorism death threats to be a reason for asylum, not because they aren't valid but because there are too many.

When you personally create the "law" you're enforcing by (often illegally) changing the rules and established interpretation of long standing law and policy to make following the law near impossible and often deadly, you don't get credit as if that's being a humanitarian just enforcing the law. Duh.

Edit: BTW Mr law and order, Trump never followed the law in his business dealings nor with his taxes or his loans (hyperexagerated his property values on loan documents, while minimizing their value on tax forms). His best excuse? His claim that he's not a real businessman and didn't even bother to read the loan and tax documents he swore were correct because he had no idea if they were.....His claim that everyone does that, everyone is a tax cheater and bank fraud perpetrator, is asinine.....but exposes him as the criminal fraud we all know he is, not a man who respects the law.

Project veritas, so we know this is staged, misrepresented, or both.


Edit: yep. Not a detention center, this is a temporary processing center, opened under Trump after the enormous McAllen processing center was closed for remodeling by the Trump administration....remaining mostly empty after photos and videos of the chain link cages he filled to 1000% capacity with children removed from their families and kept there indefinitely sparked public outrage, but not closed for remodeling until November when courts told the Trump administration to stop expelling unaccompanied minors. The center finally closed late last year to be remodeled, only after the election, with the remodel expected to take 18 months. Until then, temporary centers like this one are the only places left to process people before sending most back to Mexico....have been since November. The processing center is due to reopen in 2022.

This is evidence of Trump's policies continuing to be inhumane, @bobknight33. He dismantled the immigration system, left it in total disarray, did nothing to solve the problem besides denying entry to those following the law, and actually defunded immigration courts exacerbating the backlog, and suddenly you notice it doesn't work only after he's given the boot and you blame Biden. So transparent and infantile, Bobby.
Let's have some more crocodile tears. You didn't have any problems when this process started under Trump.

Sure, his stated policy was "come in the legal way"....but he constantly added more restrictions and insurmountable hurdles to who could even apply, when, and where, trying to stop all legal immigration a few times and succeeding at slowing the legal process to a trickle by not funding more immigration courts, even cutting some funding to the few we had. He also drastically cut the number of legal immigrants accepted, and the number of refugees was cut to near zero.
At the same time, he cut anti narco terrorism funding, making it a choice for many of stay home and die or try to get in the U.S....so he made those masses escaping serious death threats from cartels ineligible for asylum.

Yes, Obama created the temporary holding facilities, but his administration had a 72 hour limit on how long kids stayed there, not Trump, and Obama only used them for unaccompanied minors, Trump used them to separate children from their families and expelled the parents, often to Guatemala or farther away, in many cases not ever even trying to reunite families they separated, and holding the kids for months before putting them in the foster system.

There's some *specific* policies for ya.

Wait....I drink a line by the gallon? Probably better if you don't try to use metaphors, buddy. You don't know how.

Trump's plan? Working? Which one?
His plan to start a depression and epidemic concurrently, making America less appealing?
Or his plan to deny entry to even unaccompanied minors, leaving them alone in Mexico, ripe for abuse with no protections?

You know Biden is continuing the rest of the Trump plan so far, only letting unaccompanied minors across into refugee camps....like Trump did until he caught flack for caging them and denying it....don't you? Probably not. OANN isn't telling you that, and you abdicated your ability to think for yourself long ago.
No one opened the border. You're being lied to again by the same asshats that convinced you of the election fraud fraud. Why do you keep begging them to mislead you? Why do you so enjoy being a misinformed idiot, Bob?

It's odd you aren't complaining about caging them in over crowded camps (which I see as an abject failure by Biden's administration)...perhaps you can foresee the ridicule you might get for complaining about the same thing you defended Trump over?

If Trump's failed fence worked at all, there wouldn't be any making it....but it doesn't work at all....it's usually less secure than what it replaced. It can be cut through in minutes with battery operated grinders and takes days to repair. Some fell down from wind. Almost any section can be pulled down with a car and a chain in seconds. He removed imperfect barriers in favor of useless fencing, making it easy to drive truckloads of anything across the border at will. Thanks Trump....great plan.

I would admit, Biden isn't doing better at preparing for the numbers of refugee children, and he hasn't changed policy much beyond not abandoning children to the cartel sex trade, but treating refugee children like refugee children and not like criminal lowlifes is a step in the right direction. Now we need the infrastructure to handle them. For the money wasted on Trump's legacy fence we could have built it already and could have a functioning immigration system, but Trump had to have that fence....that Mexico didn't pay for.

Note, the main reason people are coming is narco terrorism, created by the war on drugs and made exponentially worse when Trump cut international funding to fight it when his ass wasn't properly kissed by other country's leaders. End the failed war on drugs and use that money to fight organised crime in central America and the flood will be a trickle overnight. Of course, the right has no interest in that, and ignore the evidence of how well decriminalization works.

🤦‍♂️

See, my distinct impression of the Trump administration's policies and actions surrounding immigrants at our southern border was that it... wanted them to fuck off and/or die. "Remain in Mexico" was abhorrent. Family separation was a humanitarian disaster.

What *specific* policies or actions did the Trump administration take or promote which should make me believe they cared? That they had even the tiniest shred of humanity regarding people who've suffered enormously and struggled to reach what they hoped *might be* a less shitty life for themselves and their children?

"Come in legally" is fine, so long as we live up to being the beacon of hope and freedom that we like to think we are. Which would require allowing in a LOT more refugees than the Trump admin tolerated.

Ever read the poem on the base of the Statue of Liberty? It is beautiful, and if the US can manage to live up to it for a change then perhaps we'll have made America great, for the first time.

Yes....like Texas has no standing to sue other states for how they handled the election. The idea is asinine....but I hope other states start suing Texas over, let's say, gun laws, or immigration laws. If one state can sue another because their legislatures disagree, we are going to need a new court system.

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The ones they could VERIFY!?! They didn't verify any of those claims....mainly because they weren't a bit true. Their stack of "affidavits" was a print out of claims from their hotline, all unsigned, most anonymous, and a huge percentage was trolling jokes, which they admitted in court. That's the "unsound methodology".... offering a public bribe of $1 million to anyone who could lie convincingly enough about democratic election fraud to be believed in court, then pretending every attempt at that lie was a real honest affidavit. I think they verified 4 people that voted twice using dead relatives....all republicans. In fact, every single vote fraud case since 2016 has been a republican.

No, I taped the game....I'm only interested in the commercials. Foolsball is the Devil!

I could quote legal scholars who think otherwise, but since it is kind of split down the middle, you would be able to find just as many that argue that it is constitutional. My opinion goes towards the non-constitutional side. He isn't a sitting President any longer and the only reason Democrats are doing this is because, as you mentioned, it is a much higher bar to convince a jury that using the word 'Fight' means a call to insurrection. If they could manage to force it through the easier method, then they can simply call for a majority vote and block him from running again in 2024.

That is the net goal of the Democrats, because they fear he will win once people realize how badly the new ecological policies and debt from a further stimulus is going to hurt our economy. Let's be realistic in that it took Trump fucking up multiple times, the worst pandemic in 100 years, and the entire Democratic voting bloc turning out for Biden to win by a few thousand in the critical states that gave him the electoral mandate. I can't vote for him again, but there are plenty who would. Mostly poor and middle class working people who are going to be realizing just how bad Biden is going to fuck up the economy in the short term over his appeasement of portions of the green new deal.

We've discussed the gun situation to death. I could post quotes from Kamala and Biden, as well as his stated plan for gun control he put up on his site, but it would again serve no purpose. You feel that nothing will happen or it will only be limited to scary 'assault rifles'. I feel otherwise. We can bang our heads against the metaphorical wall over and over, but in the end neither of us is going to change the other's mind on gun control.

Sadly, in my case, that still means that unless Democrats do a 180 on gun control and illegal immigration I will continue to be forced to vote for Republicans. Also, yes, I mean the trial, but can we not split hairs? It's like asking for a Kleenex and getting nagged that you really meant Puffs.

There's always a chance, what there isn't is any evidence it's ever been a problem (except 2018 which had huge problems with Republicans trying to cheat, but they were caught), including in the multiple states that have been universally voting by mail for multiple elections. It's never been a question before Trump. Now it's only questionable because of Trump's incompetence, interference, and lies.
Yesterday he said if he loses, there's cheating, if he wins, there isn't. I'm certain you are so gone you agree with that and don't see any problems with that mindset.

Don't forget Trump's multi million dollar investigation into fraudulent votes in 2016 when he claims 3 million illegal immigrants voted found.....wait for it.......FUCKING NOTHING. The only voter fraud in decades has been by Republicans. You still never offered a single one of the "known instances of Democrats cheating", but you tried at least 3 times failing miserably every time and only coming up with Trump's plan to suppress and deny the votes of tens of millions of citizens, cheating them out of their vote to stop this lie of non existent, not found when investigated, rampant illegal voting. Nothing else, certainly not a single democrat cheating.

Voter ID is a poll tax. If Republicans had paid for the ID they wanted everyone to have, and forced everyone to get their voter only ID in person, so rich people weren't exempt from this extra day spent at the dmv and fee requirement to vote, it wouldn't be a consideration because the point isn't to stop in person voter fraud which isn't a problem, it's to stop people who can't afford to pay $25 and take two days off work to vote from voting.

It's the same reason Republicans refuse to consider making election day a holiday so everyone could vote...more voters mean fewer Republicans elected.

Nice try Bobski. Good luck convincing anyone that Trump isn't a racist despite all evidence but Biden is racist because he made a joke with a black person he was being interviewed by. It's like the insanity of pretending Trump is more healthy and fit even though he can't walk down a wheelchair ramp and Biden goes bicycling regularly.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/499795-the-truth-behind-bidens-you-aint-black-gaffe

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Besides, that's not even what he actually said. He joked "If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black."
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Now, let's see Trump's words and actions....his real, not joking, racist history....

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/19/what-trump-has-said-central-park-five/1501321001/

https://time.com/4473972/donald-trump-&/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/05/16/trump-immigrants-animals-mexico-democrats-sanctuary-cities/617252002/

Not to mention the racist fake birther movement, which Trump championed, his racist attempt to delegitimize Obama's presidency by claiming he wasn't American, culminating with his fake press conference finally exposing the astonishing information his investigators found about Obama's birth certificate (nothing) that turned out to be bait and switch topics for a cheesy commercial for his shit hole hotels.

Shit hole countries, shit hole people.

Nazis and white supremacists rioting and murdering innocent people are good people.

Blacks demanding equality under the law are thugs and criminals.

And according to almost every ex employee.....
"Fucking Ni**ers."
~Donald J Trump (blatant long term actual fucking racist)

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The gallery has been accused of providing a platform for fascist, neo-Nazi and Islamophobic speakers and individuals who promote white supremacy and eugenics.

In the summer, it held a “Neo-reaction conference” which included a talk by Brett Stevens, a white supremacist who has lauded the “bravery” of Anders Breivik - the Norwegian white supremacist who killed 77 people in 2011.

Mr Stevens' writing was said to be an inspiration to Breivik.

After the attack, Mr Stevens, who edits a far-right website called Amerika, wrote: “I am honoured to be so mentioned by someone who is clearly far braver than I, no comment on his methods, but he chose to act where many of us write, think and dream.”

Mr Stevens comments on his blog, Amerika, where he says the “neoreaction conference” was hosted behind a “veil of secrecy", confirming the secret agenda of the gallery because you can't have a beneficial discussion of these issues when the discussion is hidden from one side of the issue. Clearly then this isn't an effort to facilitate “a dialogue between two different and contrasting ideologies” when the event is hidden from all but one ideology, right?

The gallery has leaked the identity of artists who exposed its activities to the far-right neo-Nazi website, Amerika.

The gallery has also hosted, Peter Brimelow, a high profile American anti-immigrant activist. He has been described as the “new David Duke” – the former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK).

Mr Brimelow founded website VDare, which the Southern Poverty Law Centre describe as “a nonprofit that warns against the polluting of America by non-whites, Catholics, and Spanish-speaking immigrants.”


Ms Diego, the owner, described the left as “more like a fascist organisation than the real fascists”“I’m not even sure if I disagree with the Muslim ban. I see it also as a temporary measure in order for America to get sorted while they transition to another form of government,” She said: “Our position has always been that the role of art is to provide a vehicle for the free exploration of ideas, even and perhaps especially where these are challenging, controversial or indeed distasteful for some individuals to contemplate." But her actions, holding far right racist events in secret exposes that statement as pure bullshit.

I can't speak to the student/Jordan Peterson thing without knowing all the facts or I might end up as wrong as the title and description of this video, which is pure lies btw.
I feel it's likely the video she played actually promoted hatred and violence directly, not just that it included one person who had a different political affiliation like you indicate, but I don't know.

After how you erroneously described this event/video, I'm not so sure I can trust your explanations. Sorry.

Again, all this info is in the links provided.

The gallery is accused of repeatedly bringing in white-supremacists. The guy in the video is accused of being a neo-nazi figurehead.

The only evidence I’m seeing though is the gallery bringing in one guy I’d clearly label white supremacist, and then a bunch of people that same to have the wrong opinions on immigration, but it’s hardly clear that there is anymore evidence than that with which to convict.

This matters to me because here in Canada a student assistant was brought in for discipline and became the center of a storm for playing a fee minutes if an interview that included UT prof Jordan Peterson. She was accused of promoting hate and violence(and even committing violence herself) for the act of playing the video. All this because Jordan Peterson is a ‘well known’ alt-right extremist...

The evidence I’ve seen here has the same stink to it and so I’m reluctant to just convict the accused on the mobs say so.

His whole presidency has been nothing but distraction after distraction. I still haven't gotten past the immigrant children and families he's thrown into hell.