Bovine milk from a happy cow that eats grass and lives in a field with good, appropriate medical care, like the one's we raised and the one's I visited last week, yum.

Your hyperbole is showing. You lower awareness with that kind of lie...that all animals are mistreated so all animal products are products of torture. It's bullshit, you know it's bullshit, and you just keep on spouting it. I'll keep on contradicting it. That's the deal.

Sorry, you missed the mark. I take lies, any lies, as an attack on humanity. You are lying. It's not because it's a personal or family attack, but that is the reason I have the personal knowledge to discredit you thoroughly. I actually hate the relative with the goat farm and would love to see her lose her shirt, but I admit she is an excellent animal caregiver...to the point where she often sleeps in the goat pen (outside in Texas Hill country) with them for their comfort and safety.
I have nothing to sell, I'm not invested in it at all beyond my home garden/subsistence farm. I buy my meats, but I buy good quality, properly cared for meat, not Burgerking, because I care about quality and animals. There are certainly abuses in farming, but they are the exception rather than the rule, contrary to your position. I have the extensive personal experience to say that comfortably.

EDIT: Buying LCD products is what causes the abuses you complain about. Quality products are not made as cheaply as possible, so do not have the issues you claim all animal products are tainted with. You know this.

That's the scariest bit. On the surface it looks like a peaceful farm, because when you're going past it, all you see is lovely green grass and sheep grazing, it looks lovely and peaceful.

You don't get to see the castration, horn removal, tail docking and mulesing without any sort of anesthetic - this happens to every single lamb.

You also don't get to see the workers having a bad day and abusing (after the product is removed from them). This might not happen to every sheep, but with around 30 sheep getting sheared an hour by each person, you can bet at that speed it's not a pleasant experience even without malicious intent.

Outsiders just see a lovely country side, with sheep grazing before and after the abuse.

Sounds like the grass is dying out on this side of the internet. Meanwhile, trolls skulk under bridges awaiting both SJW and skeptic to cross the bridge for their evening meals.

Where be the fattest of the goats?

Your video, Primitive Technology - Grass Hut, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Oh calm down. I didn't say criminals don't deserve to be apprehended but police officers do need to maintain a certain level of professionalism. What if that officer had run over that *suspect* and killed him? Oops, no trial for him I guess? I'm certainly not suggesting that the guy fleeing from the cops in this video isn't a criminal but he isn't waving a gun around so ramming him with a car seems a bit heavy handed. The police in other countries can manage to apprehend suspects without going all Dukes of Hazard on them. That's all I'm getting at.

As to your other point, complying with overzealous, trigger-happy police officers doesn't guarantee that you aren't still going to end up with a boot in your face or a bullet in you. There have been enough incidents in the news that support that view. Here is one example.

Anyhow I think the officer unintentionally slid his car into the suspect; he probably only meant to cut him off and didn't anticipate the lack of traction lost on the grass.

idiot plugs his ears instead of using the muffs on the grass....

Thieves, thieves and liars, murderers
Hypocrites and bastards 

Hey thanks for nothing!
Morals in the dust
Two-faced bastards and syncophants
No trust

Thieves! Liar!
Inside, outside, which side, you don't know
My side, your side, their side, we don't know
Which side are they? Which side are they?
Which side of their mouth do you suppose that it came?
Which side are they? Which side are they?
Which side of the grass is greener?
Inside, outside, which side, you don't know
My side, your side, their side, we don't know

You're like a great big fucking gun,
Just waiting to get squeezed!

Breathe, forfeit erection!
Toxical injection
Geriatric fuck-fest
We still believe in lies

Thieves! liar!
Inside, outside, which side, you don't know
My side, your side, their side, we don't know
Who started it? Who started it?
Which side are they? Which side are they?
Which side of their mouth do you suppose that it came?
Which side are they? Which side are they?
Which side of the grass is greener?
Inside, outside, which side, you don't know
My side, your side, their side, no one knows

You're like a great big hit of acid,
Waiting to be taken!

When I still worked for Apple, I had a safety issue escalated to engineering over a Macbook Pro. The battery had apparently ruptured and began jetting flames out of the keyboard area. The owner tried to douse it with a cheapo fire extinguisher, one of the powder ones you can get from discount stores, but it only briefly went out.

Since it was still smoking, he was going to carry it outside but, as he opened the front door, the flames started coming back. He tossed it out onto the lawn, where it burnt a big chunk of grass.

I wish I had thought to keep the pictures; it had burnt his desk and destroyed his lawn. Apple legal went out and the guy later let me know via email that they had recompensed him for his desk, replaced the notebook, and paid to have his lawn re-turfed.

It wasn't funny at the time, but this video reminded me of it and now it is kind of hilarious. Still not as good as the kid who figured out how to game Apple's escalation system to get free stuff, but pretty damn funny.

Set fire to one probably half that size on the farm once. Smaller sized nests are really common and quite well camouflaged, so you don't really notice them until you look carefully. They are often under grass at the top of banks, or under eaves, just in odd spots that you wouldn't normally look.

The big one we destroyed was just out in the open in the middle of the forest, I wonder how long something of this size takes to develop.

You should read the prince. Look at what people did throughout history, and look at what we and other nations do today.

At some point, you have to realize that nothing has changed. Technology has moved on, but we're still the same monkeys that were around before, and we're still behaving the same way.

Nations don't last. You can be on top for a couple centuries, but afterwards you fall down the totem pole. Most places on earth spend most of their time getting crapped on. It's a special time when they get to crap on others.

Regardless, the 2nd amendment was made with the awareness of the human condition. The perpetual dissatisfaction that drives people to strife. Peace is not everlasting. Even if you behave well, there's always a group that comes along to bring trouble.

A gun behind every blade of grass is the best possible method for national security there is. A nation with a broke government in turmoil will not have an organized military. But an armed people still represent a massive discouragement to any candidate occupier.

The west has had a good run for the past few decades. But it's never lasted before, and it won't last this time. It may not be in our lifetime, but things will eventually go belly up.

Then again, it could be in our lifetime. Europe is getting rapidly nationalistic under immigration pressures. US/Europe are poking Russia in the eye with missile installations and military exercises (maybe to rile them up and get people focused more on Russia and less on the immigrant crisis - common enemies are the best unifiers). You never know. Historically, when things go to hell, they were ~always fine not so long prior.

You don't have to worry about these things. They'll happen when they happen. History doesn't care either way.

2nd amendment can look like an anachronism during a period of quiet. But eventually it will make perfect sense again.

-scheherazade

@transmorpher

It's a little difficult to 'debate' your comment, because the points that you address to me are numbered but don't reference to specific parts of my post. That's probably my fault as i was releasing frustration haphazardly and sarcastically, and that sarcasm wasn't aimed at you. All i can do is try and sum up whether i think we agree or disagree overall.

Essentially everything is a question of 'taste', even for you. There's no escaping our nature, most of us don't drink our own piss, many of us won't swallow our own blood, almost all of us have a flavour that we can't abide because we were fed it as a child. So yes, our decisions are defined by taste. But taste is decided by the food that is available to people, within reasonable distance of their house, at a price they find affordable according to the society around them, from a range of food that is decided by society around them. Your average person does not have the luxury to walk around a high street supermarket selecting the most humane and delicious foods. People get what they can afford, what they understand, what they can prepare and what is available. Our ancestors ate chicken because of necessity of their own kind, their children are exposed to chicken through no fault of their own, fast forward a few generations, and thus chicken becomes an affordable, accessible staple. Can we reach a compromise here? It may not be necessary for chickens to die to feed the human race, but it may be necessary for some people to eat chicken today because of their particular life.

I don't like the use of the phrase 'if i can do it, i know anyone can'. I think it's a mistake to deal in certainties, especially pertaining to lifestyles that you can't possibly know about without having lived them. Are you one of the many homeless people accepting chicken soup from a stranger because it's nourishing, cheap and easy for a stranger to buy, and keeps you warm on the streets? Are you a single mother with coeliac disease, a grumpy teenager and picky toddler who has 20 minutes to get to the supermarket and get something cooking? Or one of the millions using foodbanks in the UK (to our shame) now? I don't think you're willfully turning a blind eye to those people, i'm not tugging heart strings to do you a disservice. Maybe you're just fortunate you not only have the choice, but you have such choice that you can't imagine a life without it. I won't budge an inch on this one, you can't know what people have to do, and we have to accept life is not ideal.

And within that idealism and choice problem we can include illnesses that once again in IDEAL situations could survive without dead animals, nevertheless find it necessary to eat what they can identify and feel safe with.

Yes, those damn gluten hipsters drive me round the bend but only because they make people think that a LITTLE gluten is ok, it makes people take the problem less seriously (see Tumblr feminism... JOKE).

I agree that we must look at what action we can take now - and that is why i keep reminding you that we are not in an ideal world. If the veganism argument is to succeed then you must suggest a reasonable pathway to go from how we are now to whatever situation you would prefer. My "ideal farm" description was just me demonstrating the problem - that you need to show us your blueprint for how we start again without killing animals and feeding everyone we have.

And on that subject, your suggestions need to be backed by real research, otherwise you don't have any real plan. "It's fair to say there is very little risk" is a nice bit of illustrative language but it is not backed by any fact or figure and so i'm compelled to do my Penn and Teller impression and call bullshit. As of right now, the life expectancy of humans is better than it has ever been. It is up to you to prove that changing the diet of 7 billion people will result in neutrality or improvement of health and longevity. That proof must come in the form of large statistical analyses and thorough science. I don't want to sound like i'm being a dick, but any time you state something like that as a fact or with certainty, it needs to be backed up by something. I'm not nit picking and asking for common knowledge to have a citation, but things like this do:

-- 70% of farmland claim
-- 'fair to say very little risk' claim
-- meat gives you cancer claim - i accept it may have a carcinogenic effect but i'll remind you so does breathing, joss-sticks, broccoli, apples and water
-- 'the impact to the planet would be immense' claim - in what way, and what would be the downsides in terms of economy, productivity, health, animal welfare (where are all the animals going to be sent to retire as of day 1?)
-- etc. etc.

Oh, and a cow might get its protein from plants, but it walks around a field all day eating grass, chewing the cud and having sloppy shits with 4 stomachs and enzymes that i don't have................. I'm a bit puzzled by this one... I probably can't survive on what an alligator or a goldfish eats, but i can survive on parts of an alligator or fish. I can't eat enough krill in a day to keep me going, but i can let a whale do it for me...?

*cute *nature *art *food (grass)

They take it away 'cause the grass ain't gonna cut itself.

Wow, that brings back memories. Except I had parked cars and not soft, lovely grass for an exit. It's what I get for not using the whole lane I guess.

The idea of the wrap is to stop rain from damaging the hay, so I doubt it would let moisture out either. The bale shouldn't rot though, since part of the process is that you only bale dry grass (or you risk a haystack fire).

The other way of storing grass is to cut it green and ferment it into silage.