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Tabs v(ersu)s Spaces from Silicon Valley S3E6

MilkmanDan says...

@lucky760 -
I still think Judge is actually presenting the situation pretty accurately. If you look up online forum posts about tabs vs spaces, the file size thing is brought up as a pro for tabs very regularly.

While it is technically true, you're right that it doesn't make much sense because the difference is *tiny*, so conforming to the standard of wherever you are working is vastly more important.

BUT, that doesn't stop individual programmers from being (irrationally) passionate in their preferences.

Another dynamic that is (correctly) displayed in the show in my opinion is the difference between a big corporate environment, working as an individual in a large team of programmers as compared with having a project that starts out as a the brainchild of one person and grows into a small team.

The show is about the latter. In that scenario, a programmer / software engineer ends up trying to also be a manager of a team, in spite of the fact that he isn't really built for it. In a big corporate environment, they are well aware that style issue conflicts can turn into big time wasters unless they set out guidelines clearly at the outset. But that sort of micro-managing is NOT what a pure engineer type is comfortable doing.

Basically, I think that tabs vs spaces is completely a personal preference issue if you're working alone OR on a small team that don't interact with each other's code much. And even on a large team, either choice is fine BUT it becomes important to conform to the standards of the team as a whole.

Tabs v(ersu)s Spaces from Silicon Valley S3E6

Buttle says...

In my experience as a working programmer, tabs v spaces is a question of editor configuration, not typing. So, no, I don't believe he could hear it.

Conforming to the local convention on tabs v spaces isn't being anal, it's showing you want to keep your job. In particular, throwing in tabs where they are not expected results in unreadable hash.

MilkmanDan said:

I thought it was pretty clear in the show that he knew she was using spaces instead of tabs because of the sound of her repeatedly hitting the spacebar at the beginning of each line (which depending in your editor/IDE might be done automatically).

They are in a small environment, (loosely?) collaborating on code. He's anal about tabs vs spaces, and can tell that she's using the "wrong" one because of the repetitive (and annoying from his perspective) sound.

Put programmers together in a confined space, and they'll grate on each other over style issues / noise levels / music / whatever. I find the show extremely accurate in portraying the general atmosphere or feel of software development, if occasionally accenting or misportraying some details in the interest of making it good TV.

Why Do Americans Smile So Much?

MilkmanDan says...

Thailand, where I live now is called the "Land of Smiles". But I ran into some hiccups trying to fit in that conform to some of what the video said:

Basically, the "Land of Smiles" thing is pretty accurate -- generally Thais want to keep a (somewhat subdued) smile on their face. Even/particularly in frustrating/aggravating situations; Thais are extremely confrontation-averse and I think the smiling is a cultural adaptation to try to defuse those situations before they escalate.

BUT, when I first came here, I caught on to the "try to smile through all situations" culture but kind of went overboard on the enthusiasm in what I gather might be a typically American way. One time some Thais that I knew were introducing me to somebody that I hadn't met before. The new person didn't speak any English, and I couldn't speak much of any Thai at the time, so I was just trying to smile through the awkward second-hand introduction. Since I was just passively sitting back and smiling, the new person asked my friends if I was a "special person" -- a direct translation from Thai which means exactly the same thing that it does in English.

So I guess even in the "Land of Smiles", going overboard can make people think you're a bit dim...

secular talk-maher want liberal purists to fuck off

00Scud00 says...

I don't recall him ever saying that he wished Hillary would lose to the Oompa Loompa, they said Hillary was likely to lose to him because she was a weak candidate. Nobody took it seriously of course, because pretty much everyone thought the Orangutrump would lose and this was a slam dunk. To be fair I didn't really think he would win either.
So everybody was pretty much blindsided by this and I think the shock of it all is still coloring people's emotions. But four years from now if the majority of the Left has learned nothing and simply continues the strategy of yelling at people and shaming them into conforming then all I can say is get ready for another shit show.

vil said:

Is the annoying voice guy basically looking for self-exculpatory excuses for wishing Hillary to lose to Donald?

Because the Bernie option was off the table when everyone could have done something.

And then Kyle, you helped make life worse for everyone, because someone had taken your toy.

Disclaimer: maybe the hardships endured under Donald will allow society to make such improvements in the future, that would have been hard to achieve before.

Apple Campus 2 January/February 2017 Construction Update 4K

Mordhaus says...

Well, Steve was an odd duck. He was a huge asshole, but when it came to people coming up with new and innovative ideas, he would support you into either success or failure (god help you if it was failure though). Once he died, there was a noticeable shift in direction towards conformity and the bottom line.

As an example, one of the managers I worked with had a team that was breaking customer satisfaction records because he had them actually caring about the customer. Unfortunately, it also meant they weren't pulling in the same amount of profit because they weren't trying to ram Applecare contracts down customer's throats, they were also supporting some customers that were just outside their free support, and finally they were using the internal program put in place under Steve that allowed escalation reps to go beyond the norm. Like helping a smaller school set up a mac mini server network without forcing them to go to server support and paying 300 bucks for a one time call. Yeah, bottom line wise, Apple lost a 300 dollar support call fee. But they later sold quite a few macbooks to the students who were used to hearing how good Apple was.

Anyway, after some of the other groups started complaining, that manager was quietly removed and put over a non support team. This pattern continued to grow worse right up until the time I left, whatever brought in the most money was king and thinking outside the box was verboten. It certainly influenced my decision to retire early, as it did others who went on to other jobs.

ant said:

I really wished Apple would focus $$ on their own products. Look at their recent products. Argh.

Godless – The Truth Beyond Belief

MilkmanDan says...

The USA isn't the worst place to not conform to the standard state religion. ...But it sure as hell isn't the best either.

Growing up atheist (I started identifying myself that way around age 12-13 or so) in the bible belt (Kansas) in the 80's was tough. Not as tough as growing up gay at the same time/place, but I get the feeling that Millennials are miles beyond my generation (late Gen X) in terms of accepting sexuality. I don't think they have made as great strides in accepting atheists / religious differences, but progress has been made there also compared to my day.

About 10 years ago I moved to Thailand. I went from 85-90% Christian USA to 95% Buddhist Thailand. And yet even though I'm in an even smaller minority as an atheist here, it simply isn't an issue at all compared with back in the US. I don't think Christianity itself is to blame for that, because one can comfortably be an atheist in some other countries with rates of self-identifying Christians similar to the US. No, I think it is a cultural problem largely unique to the US. Which certainly contributes to my high level of comfort as an expat.

Sheriff Arpaio Concludes Obama Birth Certificate is a Forger

Drachen_Jager says...

Bob's truth-o-meter has only two settings, if it conforms to his view of the way the world is, it's true, if not, it's false. Objective reality has no place in his mind (or perhaps no room).

newtboy said:

Even Bob can't possibly swallow this.
Really, Arpaio was only looking to help back Obama up, huh? The duh is strong with this one.

#CreateCourage - Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

newtboy says...

I have 2 theories.....
1. They are seeing the mass conformity and allegiance to the empire as antithetical to freedoms of choice and expression, or
2. They looked at the helmet as a stand in for a burka, and had a problem with it.

Of course, I could easily be wrong, maybe they're just being douchey.

CrushBug said:

I really don't understand these first 2 fucking comments.

A two-year-old resolves a moral dilemma

kingmob says...

"Don't think outside the box at school"

That says a lot about our school system doesn't it.
It doesn't so much teach us as train us to conform.

Hilarious story Mordhaus.

Mordhaus said:

I actually got in trouble over this in a class during my school years. Like this video, the teacher neglected to mention anything about the people being unable to move. So I said, "I would just yell to all of them that a trolley was coming and to get off the tracks."

Well, of course the teacher was not prepared for this answer so she tried to modify the situation. I got somewhat irate, as I recall, and said she was cheating. She sent me to the office, where I got a swat for disturbing the class.

tl;dr

Don't try to think outside of the box in school.

Comedian Paul F. Tompkins on Political Correctness

gorillaman says...

Where 'called him on it' is taken to mean 'assailed him with the force of the state'.

I'm sorry to say that I find your commentary lazy and unfunny, so now you owe me tens of thousands of pounds. If you don't pay then I'll employ some thugs to drag you to a cage and lock you in it for a few years.

I hope you understand that this is a legitimate way of expressing my feelings and respect my right to only ever hear things that conform to my arbitrary code of correct speech. Please remember in the future that you're only allowed to speak with my permission.

ChaosEngine said:

He made a tasteless (and not particularly funny) joke. People called him on it.

Let's compare that to Louis CKs bit on pedophiles. His joke was definitely uncomfortable, but it had an interesting point: before you condemn someone as a monster, maybe try to understand why they do such awful things.

Whereas Carr just said "hah! dwarfs are short, geddit?!". It's exactly as Tompkins described... it's lazy and unfunny.

Mesmerizly pretty girl explains what not to do in Japan

SDGundamX says...

She forgot to mention you don't tip here. Ever. If you ever want to have some fun at a restaurant, try leaving a tip on the table and then wait in the parking lot for the staff to come sprinting out to return your money.

Other things to watching out for--blowing your nose loudly. You shouldn't blow your nose at all, really, if you're trying to be Mr./Miss Manners but if you absolutely must do it, you should blow as quietly as possible. I have no idea why this is a thing, but they actually prefer you to sniffle incessantly as you try to keep the mucus from dripping out of your nose to using a goddamned tissue--despite the fact that you will be handed packs of tissues at nearly every train station by people trying to advertise their services/products.

Also, at the end of the day, pretty much none of these rules apply to foreigners visiting Japan for tourism purposes. Tourism is way up here these days and Japanese people--especially in the Tokyo area--kinda expect tourists to be clueless about everything. The stuff she's mentioning really only applies if you're thinking of a longer-term stay where you might make some connections and actually have to give a fuck what other people here think because you're seeing the same faces every day.

Then again, I break almost all of these rules. I've been here long enough to see Japanese people break these rules and understand the times when it is acceptable. Or when I can get away with it due to "gaijin privilege." Gaijin privilege = not being expected to conform to Japanese societal rules since I'm not Japanese--and would never be considered Japanese even if I were to get Japanese citizenship.

one of the many faces of racism in america

enoch says...

@HugeJerk come on man,now you're just engaging in semantics,while ignoring voodoos point.

ok,lets play the semantics game and change the scenario,and see how comfortable you are with those scenarios:

@VoodooV has a video of your family member smoking weed...in a park.

@VoodooV has a video of your family member participating in a winter solstice ritual and his companies owner is a strict,religious fundamentalist.

(and before you throw out that firing over religious reasons is illegal,understand that the companies boss is not an idiot.your family member will be fired for other reasons,but rest assured..he is GONE).

@VoodooV has a video of your family member meeting with a lady of the evening.

would you like me to continue?
because in every one of these scenarios NOBODY was harmed,yet each one of those activities could bring great harm to your family member.

smoking weed harms no one,but it is illegal still in many states and many companies have a strict "drug-free' policy.(which i think is retarded)

engaging in a religious ritual,conforming to your family members belief system,harms no one,but is in direct conflict with the religious practices of the person who signs his checks.this would likely result in termination..with predjudice..but wait,thats against the law!! damn..foiled again!
aaaaah,but what is this?
the boss could just use another reason for termination.
the argument has been made that the owner of the company can do what he pleases..it is his company after all and he views paganism as heretical and against the wishes and dictates of GOD.
so your family member can just kiss his job goodbye.

or how about prostitution?
nobody was harmed.
sex between consensual adults for the exchange of currency.
but..its illegal...so bye bye to job.

and if @VoodooV was a particularly venal and nasty human being ,who REALLY wanted to impose his will upon your family member.he could just send those tapes to every new job your family member may have the luck to get.send them to creditors.apartment managers.etc etc.

@VoodooV could literally destroy your family members life,just by sending a video with an implied threat.

"if you do not take action about this person,i will expose YOU"

most people do not have the temerity to stand up to that form of bullying.they have businesses to run,bills to pay and families to protect.

and it is also why this tactic is so effective,because it WORKS.browbeating with the intent to force submission to a set of moral ideals held by a select,self righteous few.

it is like the dark ages!! but with broadband and iphones!!

so you better behave.
better obey all laws,real and social.
or the focus could become YOU,and not some turdnugget that is easy to hate.

China's gamified new system for keeping citizens in line

Asmo says...

Oh I'm fully cognisant of the nature of the system, but it's telling that it originates from an entertainment company and a retailer rather than the Chinese gov...

It's capitalist totalitarianism. Using your customers as your advertising/enforcement, and as you said, playing on peoples selfishness. A viral promotion of obedience and conformity (because viral marketing started in China right? \= )

One of the most repressive regimes on the planet got schooled on invasive social engineering for better control by a couple of exploitative companies. Speaks volumes.

enoch said:

@Asmo
Abbreviated to stop thread blowout ; )

Why is the Conviction Rate in Japan 99 Percent?

the enslavement of humanity

enoch says...

there many forms of enslavement,to wit most people are wholly unaware,either unwittingly or unwillingly.

"none are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free" van goethe.

consider this my friends:
if you accept currency for your labors,where you toil for anothers financial gain.you are literally renting yourself.trading your time,creativity and labors for coin.you are a wage slave and a hundred years ago our ancestors were very aware of this and found it detestable.they literally saw it as a form of slavery.

now as @Lawdeedaw pointed out,there are some protections put forth by our government,along with other governments,but those were not just handed out.they had to be fought for,and many died for those protections.by whom? wage slaves,but in those days they KNEW thats what they were,and proceeded from that premise.

the philosophy of the matrix even addressed this very idea of slavery (yep,i went there).that the majority of the people had become so entrenched and immersed in the system,that to even question the system would illicit a violent and defensive response.they would fight to remain in the system.

just look at our friend @Barbar 's reaction.
even the term "slave" was enough for a visceral reaction.

i am reminded of a doug stanhope routine in where he states " at least i KNOW i am a slave,YOU,however..remain clueless".

so let us take the term "slave" off the table and instead use the dynamic of "power vs powerlessness".

the current systems of power have the majority of people running on hamster wheel of desperation.may it be "pay check to paycheck" or "mortgage and credit cards" or the subtle doctrine of "conform and obey".this could also be "all of the above".

the real question is this:
do you consider yourself free?
because a comfortable slave.....is still a slave.
the term may be dramatic,but it is accurate.



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