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Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Sunday, May 16th, 2010 4:37pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter LarsaruS.

Interesting...

not sure how I feel about this.

Certainly men get a bad rap. And definitely the majority of people in prisons are men. Is this because of misandry? Or because men commit more crimes than women? I don't know.

The part that really irked me however was his assumption that all the jobs he listed were men specific when they most certainly aren't.

Ah come on. I downvoted, I guess I'm a misandrious man then. I'm quite sure that women do great stuff also and are called "they", "them", and "two" (wtf, how did he want to replace that with men?).

Maybe there is a point to all this but the examples this man is using are just weak.

[edit] when they use "soldier" instead of "man" I don't think its to hide the fact that the soldier was a man but rather to highlight that is was a soldier and not a civilian.

>> ^chtierna:

when they use "soldier" instead of "man" I don't think its to hide the fact that the soldier was a man but rather to highlight that is was a soldier and not a civilian.


then why didn't they try to highlight it with that kidnapping clip that he showed, saying "men" instead of "soldiers"

chivalry is dead, and feminism is the box they're gonna bury it in

Can't we all just get along?

Partially agreed. Although I do feel that many of the points of this video are weak to say the least, I have been a victim of misandry MANY MANY times (oh, and my Mac's spell checker recognizes that word just fine, thank you). I'm really glad I'm married now, because the most frustrating time was fighting the misandry in the dating world. Sadly, it's probably honestly playing the odds, but it's still prejudice to assume a guy is a jerk before you even get to know him.

The problem is that it's doubtful men will stand up against this kind of behavior, because to do so would be to admit to weakness, and to admit to weakness is un-masculine. Luckily, I'm one of the least masculine of straight men and can speak my mind.

The screenshot at 1:38 "Too many men could destabilise society" is about research in response to people favoring male babies. What's misandric about that?

>> ^CheshireSmile:

chivalry is dead, and feminism is the box they're gonna bury it in


A. Chivalry never existed. It's a myth invented by the Victorians.

B. You really think women being second class citizens will make men treat women better?

C. I hate it when feminism is blamed for all societal woes. Feminism is awesome and has brought about a better world for me and for my children to live in.

Misogyny - we all know and love
Misandry - the pinnacle of unfairness.

>> ^bananafone:

>> ^CheshireSmile:
chivalry is dead, and feminism is the box they're gonna bury it in

A. Chivalry never existed. It's a myth invented by the Victorians.
B. You really think women being second class citizens will make men treat women better?
C. I hate it when feminism is blamed for all societal woes. Feminism is awesome and has brought about a better world for me and for my children to live in.


what i was actually saying was that it seems more and more often, whenever a guy tries to be polite for a girl, she mistakes it for him acting like she's below him (not dissimilar to the misunderstanding you just made), and talks about how she doesn't need him and whatnot. feminism is fine. really. i'm all for equal rights and wages and whatnot. just often i see the facts skewed by feminazis to look worse off than they are. with that in mind it seems like these days feminism isn't fueled so much from a thirst for equality as much as from, say it with me, misandry.

of course, everyone has their reasons.

I feel that the languge points are very true, men are subdivided into smaller groups when it is a positive, but all lumped togeather for the negative.

I have never thought of myself as sexist and I like to belive that I do act as if everyone regardless of gender at the same level, but there have been times where I have heard the arguement or the assertion that simply because my chromosones don't match I must be sexist or don't understand the issue.

The video questions a very deeply ingrained assumption, we accept that men run the world, that men treat women badly and that everything is awesome if you are a dude. When the actuallity of some social problems is the opposite, life expectancy, suicide and homelessness being the examples raised.

I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time I can see the other side. Often what is considered polite and courteous is offensive. I'm not a delicate princess and I do take offense when I'm treated as such all the time. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy it when my romantic interest opens doors and whatnot, I just don't want to fight tooth and nail to be able to pay for something. Sort of ruins the romantic gesture.

I'm a badass, not a flower.

>> ^CheshireSmile:

>> ^bananafone:
>> ^CheshireSmile:
chivalry is dead, and feminism is the box they're gonna bury it in

A. Chivalry never existed. It's a myth invented by the Victorians.
B. You really think women being second class citizens will make men treat women better?
C. I hate it when feminism is blamed for all societal woes. Feminism is awesome and has brought about a better world for me and for my children to live in.

what i was actually saying was that it seems more and more often, whenever a guy tries to be polite for a girl, she mistakes it for him acting like she's below him (not dissimilar to the misunderstanding you just made), and talks about how she doesn't need him and whatnot. feminism is fine. really. i'm all for equal rights and wages and whatnot. just often i see the facts skewed by feminazis to look worse off than they are. with that in mind it seems like these days feminism isn't fueled so much from a thirst for equality as much as from, say it with me, misandry.
of course, everyone has their reasons.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I don't completely agree with all his points but the part about the language was very interesting and something that I've never noticed before.

We're more likely to say "police officers" when describing a group that is all men, because it assumes a progressive outlook. (even though they are all men, there could have been women in the mix).

I think though, if it was a woman murderer- they news readers would identify her by gender just because it's more unusual.

Misandry:

For the most part, I felt the presenter should STFU. Most people who try to claim that society is out to get men are disenfranchised men looking for something to validate their feelings of inadequacy due to the perceived threat on men's priorly assumed dominance.

That said, there are interesting points in here. One is 90% of homeless people are men. I'm not sure where the statistic comes from (I haven't seen numbers that high anywhere I've looked), but in my follow up research I found the following to be rather interesting.

The abstract of this paper states that out of 227 homeless people surveyed, men cited unemployment, alcohol abuse, and jail release as the top reasons for their homelessness. Women most often cited eviction and domestic violence. Now, this to me suggests that homeless men are self-reliant people who have 1- lost their livelihood for whatever (unstated) reason, 2- ruined their ability to be self-reliant due to substance abuse, or 3- were coming from a place where their self-reliance was based on illegal activity and that illegal livelihood was taken away, along with the likelihood of their actual rehabilitation and ability to (re)enter the workforce due to prison time & a criminal record. Women, on the other hand, are positioned as being reliant on others. Being evicted from a home should not make one homeless. If a self-supported person were evicted, they would stay with a friend or relative and find a new place to stay. This is the same for domestic abuse. Often women who suffer domestic violence have no perceived alternatives. They are dependent on the abuser in one way or another, financially primarily.

Now, when reading the abstract, it felt willfully omissive, though I didn't know how. This paper's abstract elucidated what makes the other feel incomplete. Men cite job loss, discharge from an institution, mental health problems, & substance abuse most often as causes for their homelessness. This is the same as the first paper + mental health issues. Women were more likely to cite eviction, interpersonal conflict, and "someone no longer able or willing to help". This really drove home the pattern that was not so overt but nonetheless emergent in the former paper: women who end up homeless have been under the care of another and that care has, for one reason or another, been removed.

I think this illustrates the societal trend that people are just less likely and less willing to help men in need. I'll grant you that men in need are less likely to ask for help, but I believe we enter a chicken/egg situation there. Men are less likely to ask for help because of the societal presumption that they ought not to need help. This is an example of institutionalized misandry.

It is the rigid gender role stereotyping and essentialized notions of masculinity and femininity that lead to such characterizations in the media of men as aggressive (perps) and women as weak (victims). these categories are artifacts of a patriarchal system; and equal opportunity oppressor. IMO The author is misinterpreting men not named as meaning men don't exist, when in fact this is an example of the male normative in operation. One project of feminism is to break down these rigid gender polarities to allow an authentic and fuller range of fluid gender expression free from such conditioning for all peoples, all genders!

Edit: Trancecoach said it much better ^ ^ ^ ^

"Men/man" are not being said in most circumstances because the male sex is the norm in our discourse, and therefore almost everything gender neutral and associated with the male sex is usually ascribed to men. What this dude forgets to mention is that this has both positive and negative effects on men as a group and individuals. A man who takes a day off to take care of his sick kids is a fucking hero to women. A woman just does her job. A man who doesn't take a day off is completely ok, but if a woman doesn't she will be seen as selfish and uncaring.

This video only polarizes the debate by saying that feminism is to be blamed for misandry. Certain feminists (read idiots) surely hate men, but they are not the norm. Most educated feminists I've met (there are exceptions and like I said before they are idiots) agree that both men and women lose out due to how our language assumes men as the norm and women as the exception; how language is skewed to see for example aggression and dominance as manly and something to strive for and giving in to another's wishes as being a pussy, instead of it being considerate and socially intelligent.

His claim that you never hear about men being raped used to be accurate, but not any more. I see it more and more in the news here in Sweden, as well as news reporting women who physically abuse and sexually harass men.

And the ramblings about "women and children" actually says more about how women, rather than men, are seen: as helpless persons comparable to children that men have to protect. He has some points such as using neutral words to dehumanize individuals to make mistreatment easier and the fact that what is not said can be just as important as what is said. In general, though he just takes random clips which support his view. Talk about being biased.

He makes it sound as though this is some sort of secret plot, which I find ridiculous. The exact same thing could be argued about being white vs being black, being Christian vs being Jewish or Muslim, for eating meat vs being a vegetarian, for being a drinker vs a non-drinker and so on. It has to do with certain things being the norm and others being seen as the exception. The exception is always pointed out. Yes it is horrible that all men gets accused of being rapists, murderers and paedophiles but this video just sucks.

Sorry bro

Summary: A secret plot by feminists is not the reason why "men/man" is left out a lot in our language, normative associations are. The exception is always made explicit, the norm is expected and is therefore not made explicit.

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