Um, *standup!

We do need more *nsfw bike paths.

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Carlin's alright and I like some of his stuff, but not this, not really. He accuses the "greens" of arrogance with their save-the-planet mantra but is supercilious himself by suggesting that we can do whatever we want to the environment and it won't matter.

I think that a lot of people who like this shtick like it because it gives them an excuse not to be responsible ("it doesn't matter because the planet can take care of itself / because we're already fucked anyway"). I once had a rather young roommate who was very smart but extraordinarily lazy and spoiled who tried trotting out the exact same stuff Carlin said about it not mattering -- and tried to make that his excuse to waste water and to not bother recycling. It's bullshit. I choose to believe that we aren't already fucked but that we will be if we don't become better stewards of our world right fucking now, and to say that it doesn't matter the way we live our lives is destructive and the opposite of what we need.

I think you might have missed the point a little Calvados.
At no point during this does Carlin say that people shouldn't do anything for their environment. All he is saying is that you don't need to bring the planet into it.

I think the most important point is that people are not trying to "save the planet." We are trying to save ourselves. Saying that we're doing it for the planet makes it sound like we're performing some sort of selfless act, when in fact, the planet is going to be here no matter what. We could set off every nuclear bomb in all of our arsenals and the outcome wouldn't be anything worse than what earth has been through and recovered from already.

I've been an environmental activist for years. I joined greenpeace 10 years ago. I love animals too but I realize that not EVERYTHING is under our control.

Species are going to die. Water is going to get tainted. Air is going to be polluted. Which really just means that they aren't suitable to OUR living conditions. Hell, oxygen (a corrosive acid) used to be the worst threat to life on earth.

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't care. It just means that you have to remember that you can't control everything. You just have to do what you think is right. I'm not saying that we should just keep burning fossil fuel and dumping nuclear waste. I'm not saying you shouldn't be active about the things you care for.

Just don't act like we're any kind of threat to the planet. Only ourselves.

Oh, I know I didn't convince you or anything but if you are going to respond. You should probably know that no one will ever convince me that George Carlin isn't the greatest human being who ever lived. So I realize I might just be bullshitting myself.

No, of course we won't actually destroy Earth per se, and it's hard to imagine a scenario where humans could do something that would wipe out ALL life everywhere on the planet. That said, there's a lot to be said for stopping the destruction of habitat and creatures, and there's a lot to be said for trying to make sure our own practices don't end up killing us, as well.

I actually agree with most of what you said (as opposed to what I thought of Carlin), esp. the bit I quoted below:

>> ^Ryjkyj:
It doesn't mean that you shouldn't care. It just means that you have to remember that you can't control everything. You just have to do what you think is right. I'm not saying that we should just keep burning fossil fuel and dumping nuclear waste. I'm not saying you shouldn't be active about the things you care for.

Thanks Calvados. Perhaps I will now *requeue my opinion of you.

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*promote

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he's among the greatest.

*promote.
RIP, George.

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Got the feeling the AIDS bit went over the heads of most people in there, never the less, very good stuff.

Yeah I have to agree, this type of stuff was influential when I was young, just like that other great student of his, Bill Hicks, but once you get older you kind of understand these guys were not prophets (and to treat them so is kind of ironic, given their message) and were wrong about a lot of things a lot of the time. They were contradictory, and sometimes hypocritical, on so many issues - this routine being an excellent example. Some of the time I guess they were just out to make sure they shocked everyone, even the seen-it-all gen-x kids, other times they were just following where the comedy took them.
These guys didn't teach us how to think for ourselves - anyone who "got" them was already well on the path to having a free mind.
What they did show us, George Carlin probably more than either Hicks or Lenny Bruce, was to think and say what we needed to say, and relish in it.

>> ^calvados:
Carlin's alright and I like some of his stuff, but not this, not really. He accuses the "greens" of arrogance with their save-the-planet mantra but is supercilious himself by suggesting that we can do whatever we want to the environment and it won't matter.
I think that a lot of people who like this shtick like it because it gives them an excuse not to be responsible ("it doesn't matter because the planet can take care of itself / because we're already fucked anyway"). I once had a rather young roommate who was very smart but extraordinarily lazy and spoiled who tried trotting out the exact same stuff Carlin said about it not mattering -- and tried to make that his excuse to waste water and to not bother recycling. It's bullshit. I choose to believe that we aren't already fucked but that we will be if we don't become better stewards of our world right fucking now, and to say that it doesn't matter the way we live our lives is destructive and the opposite of what we need.


recycling is worse for the environment than producing new materials. waste of resource, money and time. my problem with the green movement is that 99% of it is stupid and productive. Now making plastic bags illegal and using reusable ones, that's something.

*quality

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"The planet is fine. The people are fucked."

Great thesis statement.

Err he's so completely wrong on his main point, that the people are fucked, not the planet.

We are fucked because of what we are doing to the planet, so if we stop fucking with the planet - we will be fine (at least for longer than we would otherwise be).

It doesn't take a genius to realize this.

Yeah, I couldn't disagree with him more. I once subscribed to his opinion, but I found when I engaged with the environmental movement how much thought and effort goes into those who are truly committed to enviro issues, and how much they achieve.

And the suggestion that recycling uses more resources than using new ones each time is outdated and bullshit.

Forgive the self-link, but I sifted this a while ago. It's a brilliant doco on recycling that is totally worth a look: http://videosift.com/video/Earthships-and-the-Garbage-Warrior

Carlin hated everybody. He was brilliant, and what's going to top his argument that maybe humans evolved for the purpose of putting plastic in the ground?

>> ^ghark:

Err he's so completely wrong on his main point, that the people are fucked, not the planet.
We are fucked because of what we are doing to the planet, so if we stop fucking with the planet - we will be fine (at least for longer than we would otherwise be).
It doesn't take a genius to realize this.


The planet doesn't care. When people are long gone, the planet will still be around supporting life in some form.

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*eco *promote

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