I didnt even know, wtf ! Fantastic.

I never got into Frasier. Frasier Crane was my favorite character on Cheers and the Frasier on Frasier was not the Frasier on Cheers.

>> ^probie:

I never got into Frasier. Frasier Crane was my favorite character on Cheers and the Frasier on Frasier was not the Frasier on Cheers.


As a fan of both Cheers and Frasier, I'm going to need you to elaborate on that one.

>> ^Sarzy:

>> ^probie:
I never got into Frasier. Frasier Crane was my favorite character on Cheers and the Frasier on Frasier was not the Frasier on Cheers.

As a fan of both Cheers and Frasier, I'm going to need you to elaborate on that one.


Sure. Cheers was very much a comedy of the classes; Frasier and Lilith typifying the upper class, white collar intellectuals. With Fraiser (the show), they got rid of the class element and focused more on the family dynamic between him, his brother, the father and the other characters. On Cheers, Fraiser was more akin to Il Dottore; professional, collected, pompous, arrogant at times...only Lilith was able to put him in his place. On Fraiser, because he was now the central character, he played foil to the rest of the supporting cast. While Grammar is still playing the same character, it's not the same Frasier (to me at least).

Careful, probie. Sarz might accuse you of wanting all TV shows to be about class warfare.>> ^probie:

>> ^Sarzy:
>> ^probie:
I never got into Frasier. Frasier Crane was my favorite character on Cheers and the Frasier on Frasier was not the Frasier on Cheers.

As a fan of both Cheers and Frasier, I'm going to need you to elaborate on that one.

Sure. Cheers was very much a comedy of the classes; Frasier and Lilith typifying the upper class, white collar intellectuals. With Fraiser (the show), they got rid of the class element and focused more on the family dynamic between him, his brother, the father and the other characters. On Cheers, Fraiser was more akin to Il Dottore; professional, collected, pompous, arrogant at times...only Lilith was able to put him in his place. On Fraiser, because he was now the central character, he played foil to the rest of the supporting cast. While Grammar is still playing the same character, it's not the same Frasier (to me at least).

>> ^probie:

>> ^Sarzy:
>> ^probie:
I never got into Frasier. Frasier Crane was my favorite character on Cheers and the Frasier on Frasier was not the Frasier on Cheers.

As a fan of both Cheers and Frasier, I'm going to need you to elaborate on that one.

Sure. Cheers was very much a comedy of the classes; Frasier and Lilith typifying the upper class, white collar intellectuals. With Fraiser (the show), they got rid of the class element and focused more on the family dynamic between him, his brother, the father and the other characters. On Cheers, Fraiser was more akin to Il Dottore; professional, collected, pompous, arrogant at times...only Lilith was able to put him in his place. On Fraiser, because he was now the central character, he played foil to the rest of the supporting cast. While Grammar is still playing the same character, it's not the same Frasier (to me at least).


I'd say that Martin and Roz, to a lesser extent, were the foils to Frasier and Niles. Was Frasier the exact same character he was on Cheers? No, he evolved, which is fairly typical of most sitcoms -- just look at Homer Simpsons in the early seasons of The Simpsons, or Michael Scott in The Office. I'm not sure if you gave Frasier more than a few episodes, but I really think you should give it a chance -- it's (IMO) one of the rare spin-offs that's just as good as the show that spawned it (save for the last couple of seasons).

*history

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I miss Frasier Crane ... I didn't watch too much of Cheers [hated "Diane" ... ugg] but I adored Frasier. Some great writing on that show. It was interesting to me to see how Seattle was depicted as well.

I never got into Frasier. Frasier Crane was my favorite character on Cheers and the Frasier on Frasier was not the Frasier on Cheers

I've seen every episode of both shows, and the character is pretty much the same across the board. You described the Cheers Frasier as "professional, collected, pompous, arrogant at times". That's pretty much the same character in Frasier. There were some minor shifts along the way, but that happens when the character changes settings and a new cast is introduced. Frasier was still very much a 'class show' except instead of dealing with ex-sports jocks like Sam Malone and barflys like Norm and Cliff, he was dealing with his father, Roz, Bulldog, etc. But his behavior was very similar in both shows. To this day, still one of my favorite programs. When it was on its game (seasons 1-7) it was A+ material, and even in its decline it still was routinely better than most of the stuff on TV today.

I feel a little naive (is that the right word?). I watched Frasier pretty regularly, and never knew his callers were so many famous people. Cool!

Penny Marshal was my favorite: "It's a little whoore isn't it!"

*nochannel *1sttube *comedy *happy

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>> ^probie:

I never got into Frasier. Frasier Crane was my favorite character on Cheers and the Frasier on Frasier was not the Frasier on Cheers.

Perhaps this will help to explain the evolution of the character from one show to the next.

Soon after Frasier debuts on Cheers, he dates Diane Chambers (Shelley Long). They get engaged, but the relationship ends when Diane abandons him at the altar. Frasier nevertheless visits the bar often and eventually marries Lilith Sternin (Bebe Neuwirth), a fellow psychiatrist. Together, they have a son, Frederick, but Lilith cheats on Frasier with a colleague. The couple reconciles briefly, but between the end of Cheers and the start of Frasier, they separate permanently and divorce. During his separation with Lilith, Frasier publicly threatens suicide, to gain Lilith's attention and win her back, but the thought of his son stops him from doing so. Lilith gains custody of Frederick.

>> ^xxovercastxx:

>> ^probie:
I never got into Frasier. Frasier Crane was my favorite character on Cheers and the Frasier on Frasier was not the Frasier on Cheers.
Perhaps this will help to explain the evolution of the character from one show to the next.

Soon after Frasier debuts on Cheers, he dates Diane Chambers (Shelley Long). They get engaged, but the relationship ends when Diane abandons him at the altar. Frasier nevertheless visits the bar often and eventually marries Lilith Sternin (Bebe Neuwirth), a fellow psychiatrist. Together, they have a son, Frederick, but Lilith cheats on Frasier with a colleague. The couple reconciles briefly, but between the end of Cheers and the start of Frasier, they separate permanently and divorce. During his separation with Lilith, Frasier publicly threatens suicide, to gain Lilith's attention and win her back, but the thought of his son stops him from doing so. Lilith gains custody of Frederick.