Wow, just wow. I would like to sit around and go through the points one by one, but sheesh, I don't have all the time. Sure, there are a number of valid points in there, but god... to just pile on all the rest?

Forced is a misrepresentation too. Not to focus on the small, but you are not forced to work for Target, so therefore you are not forced to watch this.

However, that doesn't mean your message is not right Netrunner. What I said above may seem nitpicky, but I am tired of big business "forcing" the government into "play or lose" politics, the people into "employed or fired" employment and so forth. We all have choices.

I like how when they talk about crosstraining possibilities in a non-union they begin walking past the funnest parts of the store to work in. Suddenly they're in the electronics, movie and CD music area. Places employees watching the video would begin thinking, "Oh man I'm in shoes, but Id love to get cross trained for selling THAT stuff.. Can't do that in a union? But I'm quite the music buff myself, actually...", etc.

Stopping here though.. can't stomach anymore cheese.

I kinda want a union.

Ha! I worked for Target in Australia 10 years ago. We HAD to join a union. America is not only capitalist but ultra-capitalist.

unions are ultra-capitalist

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

Forced is a misrepresentation too. Not to focus on the small, but you are not forced to work for Target, so therefore you are not forced to watch this.

If I put a gun to your head, and say "sing me a lullabye, or I'll kill you," I'm not forcing you to do anything, you have a choice.

If I come across you dying of thirst in the desert, and I say "I'll rescue you, as long as you give me your house," I'm not forcing you to do anything, you have a choice.

If I say "watch this video or you're fired", I'm not forcing you to do anything, you have a choice.

I say all of those statements are false, and for the same reason. Coercion is being applied every time. The last one is certainly the least intense form, but it's coercion just the same.

And when unemployment is at its worst in most people's lifetimes, there's not a real big difference between the 2nd and 3rd scenarios, especially for people who were making their living working at Target when times were good.

Okay, you want to take it to the next hyperbolic stage? How about a more appropriate comparison that is on your level?

If I put a gun to your head, and say, "Rape your own children or I'll kill you," then by golly I wonder what you would do.

If you come across me dying of thirst in the desert, and you say "I'll rescue you, as long as you give me your house," I would say "Fuck yeah! Why the fuck did I end up in this stupid desert (Job) to begin with!"

I say those are all bullshit examples you shot back--and that my responses are just as bullshitty. But that aside, this is more a societal problem than an individual problem. Because everyone clings desperately to the meager jobs that corporations dangle in front of us with like carrots...

>> ^NetRunner:

>> ^Lawdeedaw:
Forced is a misrepresentation too. Not to focus on the small, but you are not forced to work for Target, so therefore you are not forced to watch this.
If I put a gun to your head, and say "sing me a lullabye, or I'll kill you," I'm not forcing you to do anything, you have a choice.
If I come across you dying of thirst in the desert, and I say "I'll rescue you, as long as you give me your house," I'm not forcing you to do anything, you have a choice.
If I say "watch this video or you're fired", I'm not forcing you to do anything, you have a choice.
I say all of those statements are false, and for the same reason. Coercion is being applied every time. The last one is certainly the least intense form, but it's coercion just the same.
And when unemployment is at its worst in most people's lifetimes, there's not a real big difference between the 2nd and 3rd scenarios, especially for people who were making their living working at Target when times were good.

IKEA had one of these after some new regulation happened a couple of years ago, it was super subtle while pretending to just present facts pro and con about unions it used the right language and imagery to try to be anti-union. This Swedish company trying to dissuade people from unionizing struck me as particularly ironic.

-Karl

PS. pretty much every job in Sweden is a union job and part of the purpose of IKEA is to promote Swedish culture in case you were wondering.

PPS. the youngsters at the IKEA where I used to work could tell they were being fed propaganda even though they didn't know anything about unions. I took that as a good sign for the future.

We had to go through a similar video at DirecTV.

IT was an Anti telecommunication workers of america union video where it talked about how evil unions were.

Then we had to sign a paper when hired promising we'd never join a union, and that if we did it would be grounds for immediate termination. And we had also signed over our rights for any lawsuits due to signing the Mediation clause most employers are now carrying.

those mediation clauses suck, the most famous mediation clause went before congress of a young girl went to Iraq for extra pay for Haliburton and was gang raped, then detained in a box for days she tried to sue but was never able to and courts/police/fbi all ignored her.

Senator Franken brought the matter before a judiciary committee trying to BAN mediation clauses for employers. Dunno where it went after that, but yea.

I worked there for 3 weeks at directv, we had solicitations to join the unions when we'd go to lunch people would walk up to us, eventually a bunch of us couldn't handle the stress and quit. Cause you never knew if it was directv employees testing you, cause even if you took pamphlets they'd fire you.

it was a mess....

@Lawdeedaw, I didn't mean for it to come across hostile -- I probably shouldn't have used "I" and "you" in the examples.

I agree with your last paragraph, it's a societal problem. Most of us are enslaved by the need to work in order to have the things that let us have a life worth living.

In any case, my main point was that Target is obviously, and clumsily forcing propaganda on their employees. I think there's something more wrong with that than the usual "follow the corporate policies or you're fired" coercion.

>> ^NetRunner:

I didn't mean for it to come across hostile -- I probably shouldn't have used "I" and "you" in the examples.
I agree with your last paragraph, it's a societal problem. Most of us are enslaved by the need to work in order to have the things that let us have a life worth living.
In any case, my main point was that Target is obviously, and clumsily forcing propaganda on their employees. I think there's something more wrong with that than the usual "follow the corporate policies or you're fired" coercion.


Much better

Strange world we live in when self-proclaimed "proud" union workers are starring in a rabidly anti-union propaganda piece.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/06/16/target_anti_union_ad_starring_union_member

In fact, ask your team leader about the Open Door Policy and he'll not on show you, he'll walk you through it.

In related news, the first unionization vote in Target history was two weeks ago. 137 employees voted against the measure while 85 were in favor of it.

"In a move that worried numerous workers, the company said there were no guarantees that the store would remain open if the workers unionized."

Pretty chilling.

At the very beginning: "You'll probably learn something every day... at least for a little while" just depresses me. Sounds like a rewarding job... at least for a little while.

"We're going to use strawman arguments and isolation tactics to teach you how not to fall for the isolation tactics and strawman arguments of the unions."

I'm not enslaved. I work at Freedom Furniture.

Geddit?

While there are sycophantic unions out there the majority are holding the line on little items like cost of living increases and medical care. I'll take a union any day over a non-union one.

This is just an ad for rich people trying to get others to fight THEIR fight. And it works...