enoch said:

@carnivorous
let me first start by apologizing to @pumkinandstorm for derailing her thread.i always seem to do it to her posts.poor thing must hate me.

as for @carnivorous, i usual dont respond to any other posts after i rant (unless its shinyblurry) but i feel you are worth the time.i have read many of your comments and i sense you are a decent sort.

and though i am loath to do it i shall form my response in bullet form,more for expedience than laziness.(bullet responses are a lazy form of argument in my opinion).

1.my comment was not directed at you specifically,hence my generalizations and the use of the open-ended pronoun of "you".though you were certainly included in that use of "you".if i had issue with YOU i would have formed my comment in that manner addressing YOU..specifically.

my problem with some of the comments was not with a moral conflict but rather:presumption and ignorance.your commentary displayed both.

this is not an attack on you nor is it a reflection of how i feel/think/react to you.
it is just a statement based on your commentary.
i was hoping that my rant would possibly illuminate that fact for you (and others).

please reread your commentary in regards to @shang.
notice anything?
presumption.
you presumed to know and understand @shang 's intentions,even when he stated the opposite.
unenlightened.
or ignorant.you decide.because your whole premise is based on how YOU feel/think about a certain activity and you projected that morality onto @shang and found him lacking.
self-righteous.
because @shang participates in something you find abhorrent,it appears by your commentary this gave you the right to chastise and judge him,based on YOUR morality.

2.i do not think you are a bully.i think you were being presumptuous and self-righteous.read your commentary.

3.your rebuttal was no rebuttal at all but rather a conflation.the family you used as your example as "hunters"were not hunters.we have a name for people like that "sadistic psychopaths".appears they made it a family affair.
but to conflate those sick individuals and hunters is obscene and reveals an utter lack of understanding in regards to actual hunters.

4.i respect a man who stands up for what he believes in and i would never ask you to apologize but thats not what my commentary was addressing.

i was addressing the presumptions you were making about @shang based on pretty much nothing.
and while he was responding in a decent fashion you kept sniping at him from the bleachers.

its all trumpets and parades for standing up for what you believe in but how about a little bit of respect and appreciation for someone taking the time to respond to your questions?
especially in regards to something you obviously know next to nothing about?

you cant demand respect for your morals and beliefs and then turn around and deny anothers right for the very same thing.

i mean,think about it man.
you missed out on an opportunity to understand the mindset,motivations or passion for an activity that is alien to you.

your understanding has not moved an inch because of a pre-conceived notion based on what?
a childhood memory?
a few anecdotal experiences?

what a wasted opportunity.
would you have still disagreed?
yeah..most likely.
but at least you would have understood more.
and this practice is also known as empathy.

ah well...
i hope you read this is the context it was written.
with humanity and not an attack on you.

enoch said:

i dont understand all the flack peeps are dumping on @shang.

he hunts for his own food.
which means he does not support the grotesque slaughterhouse factories but rather fresh game with no gmo-fed poultry or cattle.no anti-biotic or cancer-ridden pork.

that should be praised ya?

or how about the fact that he is teaching his children responsible gun care and safety.
to not only be more self sufficient and self-reliant but also more responsible and safety conscious in regards to firearms.

how is this a bad thing?

oh...
i see.
its because YOU cant relate to how he provides and teaches his children so therefore what he is doing HAS to be some evil indoctrination to find glee in killing things.

so shang is an asshole because you cant get your head out of yours?
because YOU dont own a gun...
because YOU dont hunt for your food...

single-minded,unenlightened self-righteous twats.

my big sister and brother in law live exactly as @shang does.
they grow their own fruits and veggies and hunt (well,my brother in law does) for all their own meat.

my brother in law tried for years to get me into hunting.
i just couldnt do it and chose to be a hypocrite,much like @Buck,because i was too much a pansy to kill bambi.
i much rather prefer the killing be done away(far away) from me.

but the ignorance and presumption being displayed on this thread in regards to hunting for your own meat is..well..staggering.

oh ..
and before anybody decides to jump the assumption shark and start spouting off redneck and deliverance references.my brother in law is a retired electrical engineer and my big sis has two (count em TWO) doctorates.

/ends rant
/drops mic

jumping on a cat for teaching his kids to hunt...
fucking seriously?
christ on a stick......

Buck said:

You ARE a vegetarian and your name is meant to be irony? yes?

If you do eat meat, look at some factory farming videos....THAT is horriffic treatment of animals.

the thrill of the hunt. It's fun, not only does it provide food, it's exhilarating. Stalking the target is the most fun style of hunting large game, as you have to stay down wind, stay quiet, and get close enough for a good shot.

it is "getting off" so to speak. The adrenaline is pumping, it even has a name you can google "Buck Fever" every hunter gets it. "Buck Fever" causes a lot of missed shots, the heart races, adrenaline pumps and you wind up missing or spooking them. But hunting is a ton of fun, if it weren't my kids wouldn't even be interested in it either. Not only does it provide cheap and plentiful food for family, which otherwise I would probably need food stamps to afford meat for family of 4, it's also fun, entertaining, and constantly trying to get better.

Similar to how fps gamers get addicted to keep getting better scores and "kill streaks" same for hunting, I hate missing a flock of quail, I love when we flush a flock of 5 or 6 quail and we can get them all, which rarely happens, usually 2 or 3 are dropped until next flush.

if hunting was not fun, there would be no point, just buy from store...
but it serves a purpose and it's fun as hell.

not really, I don't like my meat processed and chemically treated. I hunt deer, squirrel, rabbit, I grow and hunt quail, ducks, geese, chickens, I also hunt alligator since it's open season year around here due to overpopulation.

I have a chest freezer in the utility room with Elk, Mule Deer, Venison, Lamb as I can. We save thousands of dollars a year on meat since I hunt and have taught my son and daughter to hunt. My daughter is 13 and has already killed her first deer last season. I've also taught them how to skin and clean from fish, fowl and large game, although they usually just watch and clean the buckets for the large game for now, they happily help me skin squirrels, rabbits, bullfrogs for frog legs, etc. It's just how we live and keep grocery prices really cheap, since I usually barter gator tail/venison at the farmers market for most fresh vegetables.

Weapons of choice, .308 / 30-30 / 12 gauge - my daughter and son primarily use 20 gauge as it has little to no kick and great spread for shooting fowl.

Yea was also hoping for a cat or something to jump up and eat it or dog or whatnot.

and yea I get off on violence
avid hunter and killed 18 quail and 4 ducks this past saturday, had a wonderful bbq sunday afternoon with family. Can't wait for deer season

The title made me think a cat was going to jump from behind the fence and eat it.

Most disappointing video ever

newtboy said:

Interesting, but I could find no description. What led you to the conclusion this was staged rather than just included in the video?

Stormsinger said:

If there is an ego and a lack of respect being demonstrated, I'd have to say it was mostly on your part. There is nothing inherently superior to physical labor, and far far fewer who are even capable of intellectual tasks...so ragging on someone who prefers to spend their time on the latter is...um...fucking stupid, not to mention obnoxiously judgemental.

I'm lacking in respect, huh? Fuck you, pal. I disagreed with you, and I did so pretty vehemently because I feel very strongly that you are wrong. Do you somehow think that you are entitled to judge everybody else by your impossible standards while staying safe from reproach and disagreement up in your ivory tower? And I'm the one with the ego, sure.

Now, look. I have two friends who are way into blacksmithing (and I'm actually going to try this out a bit when it becomes feasible for me to have a forge and anvil (I don't think my current neighbours would like it if I suddenly started pounding metal in my back yard)) and many others who have spent years working in construction. One of them even broke his back doing it. They have their primary skills and I've got mine, and while there is a slight overlap (since we all love to learn new things and tend to do so from each other), we all have to recognize that we are different people who are good at different things.

Because the really fucking simple truth is that life isn't perfect, and neither are human beings. We also have a finite amount of time and a finite amount of energy, and unless you are some sort of crazy person who doesn't have any limits and will work yourself until you keel over, you're going to have a few things you do well and a few things you do less well. Deal with it. What is happening here is that you've got some jacked up übermensch fantasy you can't possibly live up to, so you judge others instead of just taking your expectations down to a more realistic level.

Oh, and by the way - I love how your response was essentially just one big throbbing ad hominem. Don't have anything meaningful to say? Don't worry; you can always call the other guy an arrogant jerk! That'll show him! Nice job there, buddy. You really got me good.

Not knowing how to properly coil a cable != contributing to the moral dissolution of future generations.

Also, I'm getting tired of this entire ridiculous fascination society in general seems to have with people "getting their hands dirty." I grew up surrounded by intellectuals, and though they might've been able to handle simple problems around the house, there were other things they spent their time learning how to do.

These were mathematicians, programmers, psychologists and physicists, and for all the usefulness of plumbers, mechanics and others of their ilk, these intellectuals provided other services to society which were quite honestly no less vital to its success. What they taught me was how to use my brain rather than my hands, and frankly, the world as I see it is filled to the brim with people are perfectly willing to get their hands dirty but who are astoundingly unwilling to ever use their heads.

I spent about a week this summer building a fence, and for all the shallow gratification of "honest labour," I would honestly really prefer it if I could just pay someone else to do it while I stayed inside, learning about the world and everything that goes on in it, instead of working outside like some sort of beast of burden.

If you happen to be one of those people who for some reason feel that digging holes and putting large sticks in them is a meaningful pastime, I will neither stop you from doing it nor judge you for your choice. So please, would you kindly shut the fuck up about how wonderful it is to "get your hands dirty" and just leave me to my Goddamn books?