as the "neo-conservatives" lose their credibility,mainly for being WRONG on just about everything,and with so many people leaving corporate mainstream media in droves and flocking to the internet and its host of independent media.we shall see mr o'reilly become more and more irrelevant.
sadly,this process will most likely be a slow one.which means many of our fellow citizens who listen to O'reilly for their news,will remain ignorant.
chief propagandist and host, bill o'reilly, should be ashamed of his continued slanting, partisan, hackery,but shame is an emotion where humility,integrity and honesty are essential.O'reilly has none of those characteristics,he is an egotistical narcissist.a self-aggrandizing tool for his corporate masters.
it will be interesting to see if his rhetoric changes if the democrats are able to repeal the 1994 FCC rules and break up the corporate media stranglehold.
but until that happens(unlikely)he will most likely remain a puppet,and corporate whore.spouting his mis-truths and outright lies,appealing only to the most base of the american public.

QM-you posted a description of "One answer to liberalsift's "The McCain-Palin Mob".
therefore setting the premise,and hence,my response.
i also dont think it a stretch by calling the attendees of the recent mcain/palin rallies "ignorant,bigoted and potentially violent" considering the noxious quotes they have been dropping of late.
you also point out the "alarming ignorance of the obamites".
well..i would counter that many of america's citizens are "alarmingly ignorant",and while i agree that many in the video dont relay a comprehensive understanding of the "change" obama is platforming on.the same can be said of the many mcain/palin voters.the difference is,obama is actually offering a change,while mcain/palin are not.
this political cycle has gone on for decades,with one political ideology gaining prominence and control,only to become bloated on its own arrogance and hubris,eventually decaying in its own corruption.then it swings the other way.the republicans are the ideology at this point in history where their hubris and mismanagement have left them vulnerable.the pendulum is swinging away from them now.it is inevitable,historically speaking.
the one thing that disturbs me is that most americans are unaware of the fact that neither the republicans,nor the democrats,have legislated policy based on their respective political ideologies.not for almost 35-40 years.
bush ran on a conservative republican ticket,and he has been anything BUT conservative.neither clinton,nor reagan ,expressed policies based on their political affiliations.
what we,as americans have to choose from,are two entrenched parties who only pander to their ideological base during election cycles,then totally abandon those ideologies when elected.both parties are pandering whores who work for corporate america,and not you or i.hell,they even let the corporate lobbyists WRITE legislation!
so this election is not so much about ideologies,but rather americans wanting,NEEDING a change from the current entrenched power structure.which just happens to be the republicans,next time it will be the democrats,and the cycle will continue.
that being said,i did find your statement of "^ The above really has nothing to do with this post, I just thought you'd like to know, that I know how the liberal mind 'works',quite interesting.
i dont believe it be accurate,reading many of your comments here,and considering many of your comments are regurgitated talking points thrown out there by many pundits.
if you ARE interested in the different philosophies of either "conservative" or "liberal",and how both ideologies are very important to a democracy.
i recommend you watch this,from TED talks:
http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Difference-Between-Democrats-and-Republicans-TED
oh wait! you already watched this!
nevermind...
till next time..peace

THIS is your answer to the mcain/palin mob video?
ok,ill bite.
the mcain/palin mob video showcased rabid,potentially violent,ignorant and bigoted supporters leaving a mcain/palin rally.
this video showcases mainly black people answering questions and expressing their concerns after an obama/biden rally.
did you even WATCH the video before you posted?
seems to me the point is:
mcain/palin=angry/bigoted ignorant and potentially violent.
obama/biden=concerned citizens for our countries future(though a few could brush up on current events).
wow...yeah....errrrrr..../taps fingers...uh..yeah..well..
i would call this an epic fail to conflate the two camps.
but hey..better luck next time,
and thank you for playing "the conflation game".

i agree with many here that mcain is not a bad guy,but one thing mcain most assuredly is,is an opportunist.that has been his most glaring trait,yet i dont see many pundits,liberal or conservative,pointing that obvious fact out.
the only reason why mcain got the "maverick" nickname was due to the fact during the "saving and loan" hearings(the keating 5),mcain was upfront about his involvement,and actually apologized and asked to be forgiven/
that was it...one "im sorry" and BOOM,he's a maverick,which he then parlayed in the coming years into almost a political brand-name.but if you peruse his voting record,well...not so "maverick-y".what you will also find,among his bad-tempered tirades,is that he is a genuinely likable fellow.
not a bad sort at all.
the reason why this showing of decency and respect is so confusing to many,is that mcain has been a literal puppet for the republican political machine.he is being told what to say,and how to say it.all based on polls,focus groups and a veritable treasure trove of political machinations.
thats why the john mcain we saw in 2000 is unrecognizable to the mcain we see today.
but we all recognize the tactics,now known as "rovian tactics",and why?
because they WORK,or they did,for many, many years, the FEAR quotient worked on the american populace like a hyper-fight-or-flee drug.make people SCARED of a nominee,and your victory is in the bag.
to my utter joy,elation and amazement,those tactics this year seem to be backfiring.no small part due to the internet and its growing independent media.
but i dont think its just "rovian tactics", that strip a politician of his humanity.i think polling and focus groups can be overdone,and cause an almost draining of personality from a politician,remember al gore in 2000?
remember years later when we saw him speak and we were all like "where was this guy in 2000"?
macain is not a bad sort,its his campaign managers,and his advisors,who strip him of his humanity and leave us all watching a puppet dangling from strings.twitching like vacuous doll experiencing a grand mal seizure.
i apologize for the length of my comment,but i felt it necessary to point out the myopic nature of our current political "popularity contest",and who really deserves the blame for the dehumanizing of our politicians.
i dont agree with mcains policies,but the choice of his campaign to delve into "rovian tactics" was his campaign,it's leaders and advisors.
my hope is that these tactics in 2008 will result in an epic fail.in which case will mean that campaign advisors will steer clear of future "rovian tactics" and maybe become more creative,and MAYBE..hope hope hope..create a civil,informative and honest campaign.
we can all hope,cant we?
but my over-riding misanthropic cynicism says that palin will continue to appeal to most base,ignorant and bigoted of us.
i hope in wrong.
till next time..peace.

@rgroom1
while you are enititled,and i would suggest further your duty,to vote your principals.thats one thing,its an entirely different thing to claim ignorance,then chastise others for ignorance.
if you garner all your information from corporate television,then i would agree in your assertion that we are all ignorant.the corporate news media has failed us all in keeping us informed and providing us all with the much needed context to make sound decisions.
but the fact that you are using the greatest tool to combat ignorance,the internet,weakens your statement considerably.
ignorance is curable,stupid is not,and the people being filmed here are ignorant,and while not representative of conservatives as a whole,i still find it saddening that so many of my fellow citizens are so ignorant.
a point of view can only be validated if it can be backed up by showing the linear reasoning process on how that conclusion was formulated.
"because i found his name to be scary,and muslim-like" shows such a depth of ignorance,and a total absence of critical thinking,that it breaks my heart.
so rgroom1,while YOU may have researched obama and found him lacking,so many MANY of your fellow mcain supporters have not.
so please do not defend those who have not taken the same amount of time to research,compare and think as YOU have.you should be just as outraged by their ignorance as i.

peter schiff called it years ago.if you paid attention to what he was saying in past tv appearances,he warned of our current situation almost verbatim.
notice how chicken little and the host both drowned him out?
now why would they talk over the man that up to FOUR years ago warned of this coming crisis?
you would think they would have the presence to SHUT UP and let the man talk.
why would people who got things so WRONG think they have any credibility in the present?
seems thats how things are done,not only in washington (im talking to YOU..neo-conservative retards) but also in the financial sector.
i recommend everyone to watch peter schiff's tv appearances over the past few years,so when we all hear how the financial sector had NO IDEA this was coming,we will know that is a blatant LIE.
they knew...they chose not to do anything because this bail out is by design,not function.
scary times folks..scary times.

agreed GUNDAM,and jwray brings up the exact point (harming others) where this argument always gets caught up.
is abortion murder?
i say it is.but that does not mean i wish for the government to step in and create legislation to ban it.
roe vs wade has stood up well for 35 years,mainly in part (in my opinion) due to the fact it compromises.
and while i agree jwray that laws may pertain to morals,but really they are in place to protect the victims.
so while masturbation is a victimless crime,it is still against the law in some states.just as me using an old testament reference was a jab at brutality for the sake of justice,that was jab at stupid,archaic and puritanical laws.
that whole diatribe was my lil jab at some of the archaic laws that have infected human society.
though i understand your point,which you made succinctly,it brings us back to
the beginning,in which we ask,when does life start?this is the juxposition that can never truly be clarified.
if life starts at conception,then its murder.
and if thats true,
how can we deprive this "potential individual" of its/his or hers..rights?
and the deabte rages on.
all im saying is keep government out,
it is already a relative issue with the person involved.
a moral crisis they will have to face,and ultimately take responsibility for.
but thats my take on the issue.
i thank gundam and jwray for their well-thought out posts.
till next time..peace.
Enoch D.D.S

what a GREAT discussion!
i have read through the 80+ comments and have been impressed with many of the arguments.
that being said..
the arguments being presented here,while valid,all fall into the trap.
the "when does life begin" and the "fetus rights" trap.
both are valid and significant arguments to discuss,but ignore the larger premise of "legality".
because THATS what this argument is REALLY about..legality.
the concept of a government,ANY government,legislating "morality" should be a reprehensible idea to any free thinking human being.
because thats what this issue is ultimately about..morality.
it is a moral choice that a woman has to make to abort a pregnancy.
thats a choice that only she can make,and from my experience,it has always been an almost unbearable one.
if you are pro-life or pro-choice,these are your choices based on your philosophies,concepts and understandings based on YOUR moral understandings.
henceforth your views and decisions will be based accordingly.
and as we have seen on this thread,our views are varied immensely.
but once you ask,or allow, the government to legislate morality,when does it end?
where would you put the "do not pass" sign?
in the old testament,if a woman was accused and found guilty of adultery she
was "to be brought into the streets and stoned to death".
adultery is a moral issue,as is lying and stealing, even masturbation.
morality itself is a relative perception.
some base theirs from a religious standpoint,others a sense of fairness guides their morality.mostly we get our morality from family,friends and neighbors.community helps shape how we look at things from a moral perspective.
but if you let the government legislate morality,we risk fascism,or worse...
a theocratic fascism.
that should give everyone pause.
till next time..peace.
Enoch D.D.S

note* i am pro-life and counsel women who are either contemplating,or have had an abortion.

this proves nothing but the glaring exposure that "politicians" do NOT work for the people,and a clever use of video to manipulate the viewer into buying into the media created polarization of "dems" and "repubs".this video reveals nothing of import,and gives not one piece of coherent context.the current crisis has been an inevitable result of legislation that began in the 60's.both parties are culpable,but neither will accept responsibility,instead choosing to use this crisis as a political ploy to hammer the citizens of america to keep buying into the paradigm of "republican vs democrat.its a sham meant to divert our attention from the REAL culprits and to ignore that fact that these people are STEALING.not only do they prey on our ignorance,they count on it.

yeah.the pain from 50k volts diminishes almost immediately.
except of course when a pesky thing like DEATH gets in the way.
death is a real bummer.

its also from a documentary called "secret rulers of the world",and yes..its VERY long,and some of the information is subjective and not easily validated.
in CP's defense,the information in this particular clip is accurate,and easily validated.
since when did history become a "tin foil" subject?
unless "tin foil" is a new slang word for "i didnt know that".

man,i am liking this netrunner dude.
and choggie is quite correct,the only way to frame the argument for a person of faith,is faith.the atheist has no recourse,because there is no discernable answer.just as the atheist is forced to frame the argument in the context of religion.
religion is rife with contradictions and outright hypocrisy,and therefore easy picking for any free-thinking person with even a rudimentary understanding of the worlds religions.
just as the atheist cannot dis-prove the existence of a creator,the believer cannot prove the contrary.it will always end in a deadlock.
unfortunately it is the fundamentalist which always falls in the trap of defending their religious beliefs,and as we see in this clip,gets their ass handed to them easily.she conflates faith with religion,poorly i might add.
you can have faith without religion,but not religion without faith.this is the juxposition between the two,for religion will always strive to keep itself relevant,and in the doing,condemns so many to a life of ignorance.
but ignorance is curable,stupid is not.
so as long as the worlds religions hold sway over the easily frightened and manipulated,this argument shall be ever-lasting.
what a waste of time.
bravo netrunner.
till next time...peace.

i did a story almost three years ago about this system.and how it was used in 2006 at the massacre of beit hanoun.i cant find the original photos i had discovered,which is a blessing due to their horrific content.you may find this informative http://www.rainews24.it/ran24/inchieste/guerre_stellari_iraq.asp
if we understand the physics of microwaves.to excite molecules,causing friction,which in turns creates heat.it would not be too hard to imagine blood boiling,or brain fluid for that matter.the ADS intent and purpose is "supposedly" to be a low frequency irritant to disperse unruly crowds,but what if the frequency and power are raised?what would THAT do to the human body?be glad i cant find the pictures.i threw up the minute i saw them.so this system is NOT new,and it has been used...on people,and not to just disperse them,but to have their body fluids boil and eventually burst.jesus wept.

eh../shrugs i dont think bush's feelings were hurt.he has already shown a propensity for not giving two s#!t$ about what the american public thinks or feels.but he has shown incredible generosity to those who would profit from war and death.you have to hand it to bush,he does take care of his uber-rich friends in high places./snark

what a great tool to teach critical thinking.
sadly i found his lack of knowledge,mainly in bio-chemical physiology,and his constant usage of the tools he was presenting to further his own bias a tad disheartening.
maybe if he had studied a bit further the examples he was going to use ie:global commerce,pharmaceuticals,media manipulation etc etc,i would have used this as a teaching tool.
over-all the tools of critical thinking he presents are on the mark,and should be used with vigor.
ignorance is a curable disease.