*politics
*news
*latenight

Adding video to channels (Latenight, News, Politics) - requested by NetRunner.

*blocked

Invocations (blocked) cannot be called by andybesy because andybesy is not privileged - sorry.

Yeah I agree when everyone can see someone is being a douchebag why can't they say it? Fucking say it...you're a douchebag you weren't raised right you dumb son of a bitch, quit bothering people.

They're calling into C-SPAN! They're infiltrating our lunch diner counters! Next thing you know they'll be breathing our air and running our country! Someone stop them before they start to think they have the rights of people who are 5/5ths of a person! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

And yet everytime Jon Stewart has a guest on that he could nail he turns into a little timid school girl.

Yeah, its nice to have the benefit of hindsight. The real question is where is that Ja Rule clip from?

>> ^chtierna:

And yet everytime Jon Stewart has a guest on that he could nail he turns into a little timid school girl.


I disagree.

What if had just said "I don't think your callers demographically represent the population, and there aren't enough conservative views expressed from callers on the republican line" instead of attacking them with childish bullshit like "[black people] all think obama is jesus christ" and "black-span".

>> ^jwray:

What if had just said "I don't think your callers demographically represent the population, and there aren't enough conservative views expressed from callers on the republican line" instead of attacking them with childish bullshit like "[black people] all think obama is jesus christ" and "black-span".


What if he applauded the civics-mindedness of the black callers, for working so hard to participate in our democracy? But he didn't.

What the hell kind of response is that? He said what he did, asking something (I can't even tell what) about if he'd said something completely different is just...weird.

Jon Stewart edited out most of the caller, and most of the C-Span moderator's response. The C-Span moderator actually responded well, given the circumstances. It is important to try to understand your enemies and remain civil. Underneath the caller's stupid racism and insulting delivery lies a point that, if it were true, might have been valid, namely what was in my last post. Don't just see things in black and white (no pun intended) and tell people you disagree with to go fuck themselves.

>> ^jwray:

Jon Stewart edited out most of the caller, and most of the C-Span moderator's response. The C-Span moderator actually responded well, given the circumstances. It is important to try to understand your enemies and remain civil. Underneath the caller's stupid racism and insulting delivery lies a point that, if it were true, might have been valid, namely what was in my last post. Don't just see things in black and white (no pun intended) and tell people you disagree with to go fuck themselves.


I still don't understand what you're saying. That the caller had a point? '... if it were true, might have been valid'. What?

The potentially valid part of his criticism was that people who called in on the republican line didn't seem to really be republicans. The C-Span moderator addressed that concern by saying that C-Span had no way to check or enforce that people were actually calling in on the right line according to their political views. That's better than just spewing profanities at someone. Statistics show that black republicans are something like 1% of the population, so it would indeed be odd to get a large proportion of them, if that observation were indeed true. But it could just be confirmation bias or a tiny sample size.

Are you kidding?

The caller thought they weren't republicans, not because of their political views, but because they were black. That's fucked up, stupid and wrong enough in its own right, and there's nothing "potentially valid" about it. But, lets just say that there are no black people who ever vote republican. Is it potentially valid that this guy can identify the race of someone by the sound of their voice over the phone? I mean, I guess I can see your point in that case because them niggers show nuff do talk funny lawdy lawdy don't they tho?

I don't fault the c-span moderator. It's tough dealing with crazy people on the fly (especially on live tv) but telling this racist asshole that he appreciates his input and understands his frustration is something I'm sure he wishes he could do over again. At least I hope so. He doesn't have to tell him to fuck off, but he could have disconnected him, as they have done to plenty of other whack job callers.

>> ^jwray:

The potentially valid part of his criticism was that people who called in on the republican line didn't seem to really be republicans. The C-Span moderator addressed that concern by saying that C-Span had no way to check or enforce that people were actually calling in on the right line according to their political views. That's better than just spewing profanities at someone.

I don't know why I bother to split hairs with you over scum like this caller, but you're lacking some appreciation for subtle details:
1. He didn't say that the blackness of the callers on the republican line was the only reason he suspected them of not being real republicans. However, if black people are 12.4% of the population, and 7% of them self-describe as republicans, and republicans are 45% of the population, then the republican party is less than 2% black (do the math). A huge proportion of black republican callers would not prove anything, but it would certainly play a reasonable part in arousing suspicions that people were not calling the right line, in combination with whatever those callers may have said.

2. It is indeed very easy to tell the geographic and socioeconomic origin of someone by their voice, unless they have practiced another accent. Most actors, TV news anchors, and other people whose voice is crucial to their livelihood have worked hard on their voice and may not resemble the accent in their place of origin. But for nearly everybody else, I can reliably distinguish between dozens of accents, including Scottish, Irish, several varieties of British, Australian, French, German, Russian, South African, Chinese, Indian, Southern American, Ghetto, Boston, New York, Midwest, etc. Black people from the south speak differently than black people in new york, but both accents are distinguishable from the accents of white people in the same respective areas. There are of course exceptions, but by and large people speak according to where they're from and who they are.

3. The third alternative, disconnecting him after the "black-span" jibe without shouting profanities at him, probably would have been the best use of C-Span's time, but I was merely expressing my view that the C-Span moderator's response was better than just telling him to go fuck himself. Further estrangement, alienation, and fracturing of society will not make extremists less extreme. On the contrary, mingling promotes peace and mutual understanding. Simply telling the caller to go fuck himself would not accomplish anything.

You are out of your fucking mind.
It wasn't just their "blackness" huh? That's awesome.

I wondered at first but here's an educational video that should clear some things up for you:



Guess what, shocking news; you're a racist. How do I know that?

> ^jwray: 2. It is indeed very easy to tell the geographic and socioeconomic origin of someone by their voice, unless they have practiced another accent.




I guess all black people have a certain twang in their voice that you can pick up on, much like the c-span caller.
You say "geographic" in response to what I said, but that's not what I said.
"Is it potentially valid that this guy can identify the RACE of someone by the sound of their voice over the phone?"

As for "socioeconomic", do you even realize that you just said that poor people have an accent?



edit ... well you made huge edits to your post after I replied to it and I absolutely hate that.
Can't even have an honest argument that way. I wish siftbot would at least place a timestamp that a post was edited to discourage that sort of dickishness.
Not that it matters, you really bolstered your case by letting me know that you can distinguish between a New York and a "ghetto" accent.


" Black people from the south speak differently than black people in new york, but both accents are distinguishable from the accents of white people in the same respective areas."
Yeah .. I'm just gonna cut you off right there.
GO FUCK YOURSELF.
... racist ass.

>> ^jwray:

I don't know why I bother to split hairs with you over scum like this caller, but you're lacking some appreciation for subtle details:
1. He didn't say that the blackness of the callers on the republican line was the only reason he suspected them of not being real republicans. However, if black people are 12.4% of the population, and 7% of them self-describe as republicans, and republicans are 45% of the population, then the republican party is less than 2% black (do the math). A huge proportion of black republican callers would not prove anything, but it would certainly play a reasonable part in arousing suspicions that people were not calling the right line, in combination with whatever those callers may have said.
2. It is indeed very easy to tell the geographic and socioeconomic origin of someone by their voice, unless they have practiced another accent. Most actors, TV news anchors, and other people whose voice is crucial to their livelihood have worked hard on their voice and may not resemble the accent in their place of origin. But for nearly everybody else, I can reliably distinguish between dozens of accents, including Scottish, Irish, several varieties of British, Australian, French, German, Russian, South African, Chinese, Indian, Southern American, Ghetto, Boston, New York, Midwest, etc. Black people from the south speak differently than black people in new york, but both accents are distinguishable from the accents of white people in the same respective areas. There are of course exceptions, but by and large people speak according to where they're from and who they are.
3. The third alternative, disconnecting him after the "black-span" jibe without shouting profanities at him, probably would have been the best use of C-Span's time, but I was merely expressing my view that the C-Span moderator's response was better than just telling him to go fuck himself. Further estrangement, alienation, and fracturing of society will not make extremists less extreme. On the contrary, mingling promotes peace and mutual understanding. Simply telling the caller to go fuck himself would not accomplish anything.


Just quoting it now in case it gets changed again.

1. I made all my edits BEFORE your response was posted, less than 20 minutes after the original post. So try refreshing the page and giving it a minute. No one writes a perfect post the first time through. It's always better to improve a post than to leave a shitty post be.

2. Acknowledging the obvious fact that there are different accents that tend to connote race, class, education, social cohort, or country of origin does NOT in any way make someone a racist or an asshole. I never said or implied ALL or even 95%+ of black people speak in any particular way. But there are some accents whose speakers seem to be 95%+ black. There are many black people who cannot be identified as such by their voice. But most can. There also a few percent of white people who might be misidentified as black by their voice, as well.

3. There is a test of the proposition. Gather MP3s of random white and black people from streets all across the country, and see who can identify the skin colors of the speakers correctly, just by listening to the MP3s. I bet I could do 90% accuracy.

5. I am not in any way, and never was, defending the caller. I'm merely pointing out where your ideological conviction flies in the face of reality -- God forbid anything at all might correlate with skin color, especially something as trivial as an accent!

6. I am not a racist and never have been.

For a more practicable test, go to YouTube and watch random videos with your eyes closed, while writing down what skin color you think the speaker is most likely to have. Then watch those videos again with your eyes open and write down whether you guessed the skin color of the speaker correctly. Crunch some numbers, and voila, you'll have a metric for the accuracy of your ability to determine the skin color of a speaker from his voice.

I watched you do it.
My post was made. I refreshed the page. You weren't here.
I edited some grammar and spelling. Refreshed. You weren't here.
I was reading the post again and, after a couple minutes or so I refreshed again because I am an obsessive compulsive asshole and .. there you were. I re-read some of the shit that was said, refreshed again, and BAM .. basically a whole new post from you edited in to the original.

Whatever, nothing in your edit really changed anything. You still are saying the same racist shit even now.

Saying that black people in New York sound differently than white people in New York is racist. That's exactly what you said and it's exactly the premise behind the racist caller to c-span. Look, I'm done arguing with you. You continue to say that, just like the c-span caller, you could identify black people over the phone. Maybe you're one of those people that doesn't realize he's a racist. Well, here's your wake up call. Take a good look at the situation, and at yourself. You go out of your way to say you can identify them. No matter where you go, you will be able to identify black people just by hearing them speak. Most black people can be identified (as having blackness) by the sound of their voice.

"God forbid anything at all might correlate with skin color, especially something as trivial as an accent!
Skin color doesn't have an accent. Neither does poverty.
I've realized there are certain arguments on this site that, despite their worth, just go nowhere. So I'm done with this one.
I am quoting you this time though.
>> ^jwray:

1. I made all my edits BEFORE your response was posted, less than 20 minutes after the original post. So try refreshing the page and giving it a minute. No one writes a perfect post the first time through. It's always better to improve a post than to leave a shitty post be.
2. Acknowledging the obvious fact that there are different accents that tend to connote race, class, education, social cohort, or country of origin does NOT in any way make someone a racist or an asshole. I never said or implied ALL or even 95%+ of black people speak in any particular way. But there are some accents whose speakers seem to be 95%+ black. There are many black people who cannot be identified as such by their voice. But most can. There also a few percent of white people who might be misidentified as black by their voice, as well.
3. There is a test of the proposition. Gather MP3s of random white and black people from streets all across the country, and see who can identify the skin colors of the speakers correctly, just by listening to the MP3s. I bet I could do 90% accuracy.
5. I am not in any way, and never was, defending the caller. I'm merely pointing out where your ideological conviction flies in the face of reality -- God forbid anything at all might correlate with skin color, especially something as trivial as an accent!
6. I am not a racist and never have been.

>> ^burdturgler:

You go out of your way to say all black people sound alike.






I never said or implied that. Once again you reveal yourself as incapable of comprehending subtle distinctions. You've greatly exaggerated my opinion of the size of the correlation, despite my numerous caveats to the contrary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

>> ^burdturgler:

Skin color doesn't have an accent. Neither does poverty.



You're talking about absolutes. I'm talking about correlations. Most people could tell the difference between white southern trailer trash and their corporate overlords by the sound of a voice, most of the time.

And here again is a good example of what Netrunner was talking about in another thread. Republicans would have a much easier time avoiding the label of racist, if they'd just stop denying or trying to spin their way out of it when it blatantly happens in front of them. Instead of saying, "Hey, that's racist and we don't want that here", they instead try to explain that it wasn't really racist.

Get over it, there's really no other explanation for his statement. Just fucking admit it and move on...you'll look and smell a lot better if you do.

>> ^Stormsinger:

And here again is a good example of what Netrunner was talking about in another thread. Republicans would have a much easier time avoiding the label of racist, if they'd just stop denying or trying to spin their way out of it when it blatantly happens in front of them. Instead of saying, "Hey, that's racist and we don't want that here", they instead try to explain that it wasn't really racist.
Get over it, there's really no other explanation for his statement. Just fucking admit it and move on...you'll look and smell a lot better if you do.


What are you talking about? I said the caller was racist, and his remarks were racist. But the idea that you can usually (80% or more of the time) tell someone's race by their voice on the phone is something that I take for granted, and it's never racist to acknowledge that fact.

Now, why you would want to tell someone's race by their voice is another question entirely. It's fairly pointless. But I won't back down when someone utters a blatant falsehood (no correlation between race and voice) in the attempt to cast aspersions on my character.

So, you agree that he's racist, and then you've spent 10 pages going on about how he -might- have had a very minor point (and not one that he actually -said-) that was valid?

Sounds like spinning to me. Quick, distract everyone from the racist Repug.>> ^jwray:

>> ^Stormsinger:
And here again is a good example of what Netrunner was talking about in another thread. Republicans would have a much easier time avoiding the label of racist, if they'd just stop denying or trying to spin their way out of it when it blatantly happens in front of them. Instead of saying, "Hey, that's racist and we don't want that here", they instead try to explain that it wasn't really racist.
Get over it, there's really no other explanation for his statement. Just fucking admit it and move on...you'll look and smell a lot better if you do.

What are you talking about? I said the caller was racist, and his remarks were racist. But the idea that you can usually (80% or more of the time) tell someone's race by their voice on the phone is something that I take for granted, and it's never racist to acknowledge that fact.
Now, why you would want to tell someone's race by their voice is another question entirely. It's fairly pointless. But I won't back down when someone utters a blatant falsehood (no correlation between race and voice) in the attempt to cast aspersions on my character.

It only came to 10 pages because people pointlessly jumped down my throat when I made a fairly minor point, and I had to rebut. It's like being accused of being a Nazi just because you don't take issue with Hitler's vegetarianism.

>> ^Stormsinger:

So, you agree that he's racist, and then you've spent 10 pages going on about how he -might- have had a very minor point (and not one that he actually -said-) that was valid?
Sounds like spinning to me. Quick, distract everyone from the racist Repug.>> ^jwray:
>> ^Stormsinger:
And here again is a good example of what Netrunner was talking about in another thread. Republicans would have a much easier time avoiding the label of racist, if they'd just stop denying or trying to spin their way out of it when it blatantly happens in front of them. Instead of saying, "Hey, that's racist and we don't want that here", they instead try to explain that it wasn't really racist.
Get over it, there's really no other explanation for his statement. Just fucking admit it and move on...you'll look and smell a lot better if you do.

What are you talking about? I said the caller was racist, and his remarks were racist. But the idea that you can usually (80% or more of the time) tell someone's race by their voice on the phone is something that I take for granted, and it's never racist to acknowledge that fact.
Now, why you would want to tell someone's race by their voice is another question entirely. It's fairly pointless. But I won't back down when someone utters a blatant falsehood (no correlation between race and voice) in the attempt to cast aspersions on my character.