PLEASE; Look, your homosexual. ok. I get it. But, much as I am in favour of equal rights for gays, i am getting pretty sick of all the videos, blogs, etc. actually promoting it as though it were normal. It is not normal - for obvious reasons- but if you are gay, terrific. Enjoy your life and stop preaching to the converted. Anti-gay people, with few exceptions, will always be so. Those of us who rejoice in the differences in humans will always do so. I just believe that by trying to justify it as the "norm" when it clearly is not, is doing the gay community a disservice. Enjoy your life as a gay person, but PLEASE stop eulogising about it.

Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.

but the message itself, is quite accurate.

And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

They'll stop eulogizing about it when the people who hate them stop eulogizing against them and trying to convince society that they need to be treated as something less than human. Or more likely, when society as a whole recognizes their homophobic rants as the soulless and intellectually stunted ideas that they are and ignores them, without an audience they will lose any power they once had and can privately stew in their own hate as much as they like.

Troll sifter is troll sifting.>> ^A10anis:

It is not normal - for obvious reasons-

trying to justify it as the "norm" when it clearly is not, is doing the gay community a disservice.

Enjoy your life as a gay person, but PLEASE stop eulogising about it.

who knows in these crazy swamp monster times

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Troll sifter is troll sifting.>> ^A10anis:
It is not normal - for obvious reasons-
trying to justify it as the "norm" when it clearly is not, is doing the gay community a disservice.
Enjoy your life as a gay person, but PLEASE stop eulogising about it.



You obviously cannot differentiate between trolling, and genuine substantive comment. What, I wonder, will be your next gem?

>> ^VoodooV:

Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.
but the message itself, is quite accurate.
And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

I totally agree, the video IS "quite accurate," but I stand by my comment. Gays now -quite rightly - are protected by the law, have civil rights and will soon, hopefully, be allowed to marry. They worked hard for their rights, just as woman, and other persecuted minorities, did. My salient point, regarding the video, is that it preaches to the converted, will not change those bigots who will always hate, and that maybe it's time to enjoy their well earned rights and allow time to change the entrenched opinions of the minority. Sadly, going by the comments, ANY criticism of videos like this is tantamount to homophobia, which could NOT be further from the truth.

>> ^A10anis:

>> ^VoodooV:
Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.
but the message itself, is quite accurate.
And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

I totally agree, the video IS "quite accurate," but I stand by my comment. Gays now -quite rightly - are protected by the law, have civil rights and will soon, hopefully, be allowed to marry. They worked hard for their rights, just as woman, and other persecuted minorities, did. My salient point, regarding the video, is that it preaches to the converted, will not change those bigots who will always hate, and that maybe it's time to enjoy their well earned rights and allow time to change the entrenched opinions of the minority. Sadly, going by the comments, ANY criticism of videos like this is tantamount to homophobia, which could NOT be further from the truth.


That's nice...but you're not answering my very simple question.

maybe he is wondering if you mean Normal like statistically, which there would be no way to really know since you cant read minds... or normal like natural.

Homosexuality is natural... ie occurs in nature across other forms of mammalian life.

If you're not a statistical majority... and in particular, one that is discriminated against universally by groups that hate even each other and are no "better" (as demonstrated in the movie Bruno)... then I see no reason to just "enjoy" what little progress has been made. Now more than ever would be the time to press hard. (hehe)

Normal: n. The usual, average, or typical state or condition.

Homosexuality is not the average sexual orientation. I don't see how that's debatable.

I don't like the video because it still preaches binary classifications. I think that's kind of dumb. Even among the queer strict "homosexuality" is not normal.

The use of the word "normal" in this thread is unfortunate. The word inherently has negative connotations as in if your not normal you're abnormal. By that usage any person who exhibits a trait that is not in the majority (left-handed, red hair, green eyes, homosexual) is abnormal. A more appropriate word is typical/non-typical. To say that you accept homosexuals but they're not normal implies that you are anything but rejoicing in the differences. As for me, I'm not bigoted some of my best friends are gay, black, asian, jews etc.

>> ^VoodooV:

>> ^A10anis:
>> ^VoodooV:
Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.
but the message itself, is quite accurate.
And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

I totally agree, the video IS "quite accurate," but I stand by my comment. Gays now -quite rightly - are protected by the law, have civil rights and will soon, hopefully, be allowed to marry. They worked hard for their rights, just as woman, and other persecuted minorities, did. My salient point, regarding the video, is that it preaches to the converted, will not change those bigots who will always hate, and that maybe it's time to enjoy their well earned rights and allow time to change the entrenched opinions of the minority. Sadly, going by the comments, ANY criticism of videos like this is tantamount to homophobia, which could NOT be further from the truth.

That's nice...but you're not answering my very simple question.

You deliberately miss my point. I'm guessing, but you seem to lack simple cognative thought. If you need to understand "normal" look it up my friend. I have neither the time, nor the patience to get into semantics.

I really wouldn't be putting down someone else's cognitive functions when you can't even seem to spell it correctly.

Your evasiveness/cowardice is duly noted however.

>> ^A10anis:

>> ^VoodooV:
>> ^A10anis:
>> ^VoodooV:
Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.
but the message itself, is quite accurate.
And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

I totally agree, the video IS "quite accurate," but I stand by my comment. Gays now -quite rightly - are protected by the law, have civil rights and will soon, hopefully, be allowed to marry. They worked hard for their rights, just as woman, and other persecuted minorities, did. My salient point, regarding the video, is that it preaches to the converted, will not change those bigots who will always hate, and that maybe it's time to enjoy their well earned rights and allow time to change the entrenched opinions of the minority. Sadly, going by the comments, ANY criticism of videos like this is tantamount to homophobia, which could NOT be further from the truth.

That's nice...but you're not answering my very simple question.

You deliberately miss my point. I'm guessing, but you seem to lack simple cognative thought. If you need to understand "normal" look it up my friend. I have neither the time, nor the patience to get into semantics.

@nanrod I have red hair. I wouldn't call it a normal trait. I suppose I might use the word common, although with some sort of qualifier, i.e. "fairly common" or "common enough." It isn't normal though. Neither is homosexuality. If "celebrating differences" means calling every difference "normal" then that doesn't seem like much of a celebration. I don't know why you have such a hang up about the abnormal. To me that is all in your interpretation. Some of us like the freaky people. Some of us would rather not be referred to as normal. What's wrong with being a bit strange?

I would disagree with one thing they said as it may be sooner or later true. I know it VERY MUCH ISN'T real or that it even exists right now, but it will only be a matter of time most likely--so they may have jumped the gun a bit on that comment (they should have said, "There is no test to see if your genetic structure makes you more inclined to be attracted to males, RIGHT NOW."--that would have been far more correct. Homosexuality DOES have a source; since it occurs across the entirety of the animal kingdom you can basically safely assume that its cause is a genetic trait (AND even if it was psychological, it would STILL be a genetic cause!).

So, YES, sooner or later there WILL BE a test for it. When this happens it's how we use this test that will make us a good people or horrific one (as I'm sure all of you can see how this per-knowledge could lead to huge issues--even worse what happens when people decide if they want a straight or gay baby...scary stuff indeed). I think we'll find as with most things we will use this ability to test for sexual preference (something tells me they may be linked to the same sequence, so we'll probably find both to be serious) it will have both good and bad reasons and applications (for all we know being straight may have certain co-morbidities and homosexuality will also again have its own independent list of co-morbidities...).

But for now, I'm glad there is absolutely no test... What an absolute Pandora's Box that will be!

@kceaton1

It isn't clear that the cause is entirely genetic. There is strong evidence that environmental factors (e.g. in utero hormone exposure) seem to play a role. I think it's safest to say it is somehow neurological in nature, however all neurological development is an extremely complicated interplay of environment and genetic predispositions. The fact is we don't understand the neurological underpinnings of attraction well enough to say how exactly it develops, and therefore what factors contribute.

There is almost certainly a genetic component however.

>> ^A10anis:

>> ^VoodooV:
Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.
but the message itself, is quite accurate.
And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

I totally agree, the video IS "quite accurate," but I stand by my comment. Gays now -quite rightly - are protected by the law, have civil rights and will soon, hopefully, be allowed to marry. They worked hard for their rights, just as woman, and other persecuted minorities, did. My salient point, regarding the video, is that it preaches to the converted, will not change those bigots who will always hate, and that maybe it's time to enjoy their well earned rights and allow time to change the entrenched opinions of the minority. Sadly, going by the comments, ANY criticism of videos like this is tantamount to homophobia, which could NOT be further from the truth.


You are precisely who this video is addressing. YOU are the reason this video exists. YOU, who think that human rights are something "earned" by a minority, not inherent, bestowed upon the disenfranchised who should just feel grateful for the tolerance and generosity of the majority and kindly shut the fuck up about it. You just don't get it.

And THEN, after immortalizing your ignorance and arrogance in prose by releasing it into the ether, not to mention a worldview that likely extends no further than the windshield of your Prius, you refuse to clarify something that should be extremely easy to clarify for someone so enlightened. Yet, you dodge the question by dismissing the asker as incapable of understanding that which you have failed to explain as not worth your time, when, in fact, you are incapable of understanding the question in the first place, as already proven by your demonstrable inability to grasp the underlying issue/reality.

You aren't fooling anybody but yourself.

I have a question that maybe open-minded individuals such as yourselves might help me answer.

I don't give a shit if somebody is homosexual. Honestly I don't even care if you're open about it, kiss your S.O. in front of me, eat sausage seductively while looking me straight in the eye...whatever it's cool with me. What I do hate though, is what many would refer to as "fags". The obnoxiously flamboyant, gregarious type that needs to rub the fact that they're gay in your face. I know that guy is a stereotype, but he really does exist. I feel like if that type sees that I'm comfortable around homosexuals they feel safe and decide to take their anger for less tolerant "breeders" out on me. It's the the homosexual form of militant. In my book, they're the "tools" of the homosexual world: what rednecks are to white people, what gang-bangers are Hispanics/Blacks. How do I exist with that specific disdain without being a "homophobe"?

^@rottenseed I think you need to be careful, for instance, where is the line between eating a sausage seductively and being flamboyant? Generally I'd say be tolerant, even of the ones you don't like. I'd try not to call anybody a fag unless it is something you do with your (queer) friends in the way that other words have been reclaimed. Finally, if something is egregious or inappropriate call people out on their bullshit and let them know they are making you uncomfortable. It isn't cool for anybody to invade your space or whatever.

I tend to agree that there is a certain demographic that is arguably the victim of some cultural attitudes within the queer community. I'm often told there can be this pressure to be (being completely reductionist) "more gay" within certain circles. I think what you often end up with is more theater than people being themselves. People being themselves is cool, but like you're saying, some people need to chill out with the broadcasting (the same goes for many cultural subgroups).

>> ^bmacs27:

@kceaton1
It isn't clear that the cause is entirely genetic. There is strong evidence that environmental factors (e.g. in utero hormone exposure) seem to play a role. I think it's safest to say it is somehow neurological in nature, however all neurological development is an extremely complicated interplay of environment and genetic predispositions. The fact is we don't understand the neurological underpinnings of attraction well enough to say how exactly it develops, and therefore what factors contribute.
There is almost certainly a genetic component however.


Well I know this; there is a certain amount of wiggle room for sure otherwise we wouldn't have fetishes galore (that would be your psychology/brain/sub-conscious screwing up your natural instincts). Those can't ALL be necessarily genetic in nature. Yes, I understand the hormone issue, but to me that is an entirely separate subject that doesn't really apply. BUT, it is terribly interesting. But, certain types of visual cortex information and recognition has to start getting built into the system that is linked to your natural predisposition for sexual reproduction--some of that HAS TO happen even while you're In Utero and of course in adolescence. Now what all turns on and changes here is a slight mystery and MAY determine your sexuality, but it was determined a long time ago via genetics when the event would turn on and what would turn on. If it can change, this doesn't matter as it will still fire on cure, it's just that they have to figure it out first. Same thing goes for gender identity disorder. Same issues to some extent, but some things have been even more~enhanced.

It's what you find pleasing to the eye, these things start getting encoded and built into the brain as soon as the brain is being created (atleast the instinctual element, babies like symmetry and hate non-symmetry, usually, that type of encoding). But you're right on the other stuff, I just meant they "may" have something to worry about in the "testing" department in the future; were the U.S. becomes the China of gay children `In Utero`, if you know what I mean--could get ugly and laws may need to be passed...

Hopefully I didn't make things more confusing.
This is PART, JUST PART of the Pandora's Box a test would bring about...

@kceaton1 I think the designer baby debate is much more general than a question of queer equality. That is unless your definition of queer includes things like deaf dumb and ginger.

>> ^VoodooV:

I really wouldn't be putting down someone else's cognitive functions when you can't even seem to spell it correctly.
Your evasiveness/cowardice is duly noted however.
>> ^A10anis:
>> ^VoodooV:
>> ^A10anis:
>> ^VoodooV:
Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.
but the message itself, is quite accurate.
And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

I totally agree, the video IS "quite accurate," but I stand by my comment. Gays now -quite rightly - are protected by the law, have civil rights and will soon, hopefully, be allowed to marry. They worked hard for their rights, just as woman, and other persecuted minorities, did. My salient point, regarding the video, is that it preaches to the converted, will not change those bigots who will always hate, and that maybe it's time to enjoy their well earned rights and allow time to change the entrenched opinions of the minority. Sadly, going by the comments, ANY criticism of videos like this is tantamount to homophobia, which could NOT be further from the truth.

That's nice...but you're not answering my very simple question.

You deliberately miss my point. I'm guessing, but you seem to lack simple cognative thought. If you need to understand "normal" look it up my friend. I have neither the time, nor the patience to get into semantics.


Thanks for pointing out a typo. As for my "evasiveness/cowardice?" The context in which I used the word "normal" should be self explanatory. However, just for you, I will elucidate. Procreation - the process by which we exist- is, in the context I used it, the "norm." Homosexuality, were IT the norm, would mean extinction. Of course the narrow minded will, once again, jump on that simple fact as if I were homophobic. If my comments were read by people who were not so keen to troll, they would see that is NOT the case.

>> ^Fletch:

>> ^A10anis:
>> ^VoodooV:
Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.
but the message itself, is quite accurate.
And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

I totally agree, the video IS "quite accurate," but I stand by my comment. Gays now -quite rightly - are protected by the law, have civil rights and will soon, hopefully, be allowed to marry. They worked hard for their rights, just as woman, and other persecuted minorities, did. My salient point, regarding the video, is that it preaches to the converted, will not change those bigots who will always hate, and that maybe it's time to enjoy their well earned rights and allow time to change the entrenched opinions of the minority. Sadly, going by the comments, ANY criticism of videos like this is tantamount to homophobia, which could NOT be further from the truth.

You are precisely who this video is addressing. YOU are the reason this video exists. YOU, who think that human rights are something "earned" by a minority, not inherent, bestowed upon the disenfranchised who should just feel grateful for the tolerance and generosity of the majority and kindly shut the fuck up about it. You just don't get it.
And THEN, after immortalizing your ignorance and arrogance in prose by releasing it into the ether, not to mention a worldview that likely extends no further than the windshield of your Prius, you refuse to clarify something that should be extremely easy to clarify for someone so enlightened. Yet, you dodge the question by dismissing the asker as incapable of understanding that which you have failed to explain as not worth your time, when, in fact, you are incapable of understanding the question in the first place, as already proven by your demonstrable inability to grasp the underlying issue/reality.
You aren't fooling anybody but yourself.


How you have managed to deduce from my comments that this video is aimed at me is, quite frankly, beyond ignorant. And if you don't think rights are fought for, you know nothing about history. Your notion of equality being a fundamental right is, though commendable, rather childish. In the real world, minorities fight hard to change attitudes and, as with homosexuality, are making good ground which is a credit to them. Now, try reading my comments again with a more objective view and you may, just, see them for support of gay rights and NOT a criticism of them. Sadly though, I doubt you have the ability to do so. I shall not respond again, as you have exhausted my patience.

reposting @A10anis's content from my email notification since they apparently felt the need remove it:

"Thanks for pointing out a typo. As for my "evasiveness/cowardice?" The context in which I used the word "normal" should be self explanatory. However, just for you, I will elucidate. Procreation - the process by which we exist- is, in the context I used it, the "norm." Homosexuality, were IT the norm, would mean extinction. Of course the narrow minded will, once again, jump on that simple fact as if I were homophobic. If my comments were read by people who were not so keen to troll, they would see that is NOT the case."

And we finally get to the heart of the matter. This illogical fear that homosexuality is something you can "catch". this false notion that somehow everyone will be gay or we'll forget how to procreate or no longer want to.

Utter silliness.

>> ^A10anis:

>> ^Fletch:
>> ^A10anis:
>> ^VoodooV:
Look, I think the video itself is quite annoying because yes, I do feel it's a bit preachy.
but the message itself, is quite accurate.
And if it's so obvious, you won't mind stating why homosexuality is not normal.

I totally agree, the video IS "quite accurate," but I stand by my comment. Gays now -quite rightly - are protected by the law, have civil rights and will soon, hopefully, be allowed to marry. They worked hard for their rights, just as woman, and other persecuted minorities, did. My salient point, regarding the video, is that it preaches to the converted, will not change those bigots who will always hate, and that maybe it's time to enjoy their well earned rights and allow time to change the entrenched opinions of the minority. Sadly, going by the comments, ANY criticism of videos like this is tantamount to homophobia, which could NOT be further from the truth.

You are precisely who this video is addressing. YOU are the reason this video exists. YOU, who think that human rights are something "earned" by a minority, not inherent, bestowed upon the disenfranchised who should just feel grateful for the tolerance and generosity of the majority and kindly shut the fuck up about it. You just don't get it.
And THEN, after immortalizing your ignorance and arrogance in prose by releasing it into the ether, not to mention a worldview that likely extends no further than the windshield of your Prius, you refuse to clarify something that should be extremely easy to clarify for someone so enlightened. Yet, you dodge the question by dismissing the asker as incapable of understanding that which you have failed to explain as not worth your time, when, in fact, you are incapable of understanding the question in the first place, as already proven by your demonstrable inability to grasp the underlying issue/reality.
You aren't fooling anybody but yourself.

How you have managed to deduce from my comments that this video is aimed at me is, quite frankly, beyond ignorant. And if you don't think rights are fought for, you know nothing about history. Your notion of equality being a fundamental right is, though commendable, rather childish. In the real world, minorities fight hard to change attitudes and, as with homosexuality, are making good ground which is a credit to them. Now, try reading my comments again with a more objective view and you may, just, see them for support of gay rights and NOT a criticism of them. Sadly though, I doubt you have the ability to do so. I shall not respond again, as you have exhausted my patience.


Yeah, because that's what all our worlds rotate around isn't it? Your patience. Your replies are predictable and very formulaic. Trolls have followed the same blueprint since Compuserve was one of the "Big 3". Let's try something you can actually relate to...

Ya know what, probie? Your eulogising here has started to get tiresome. I mean, be happy that your ilk are allowed to post comments and all that, but do the rest of us have to have your opinions and ideals shoved down our throats just because you can? I mean, I'm happy for you and all... comment away! Seriously, it's something you are allowed to do, so I don't begrudge you that right at all. It's just that... do you have to be so goddamned flamboyant about it?