Never see that on USA disinfotainment.

I've always noticed that, if anything, weed made me even more coordinated than when I was sober.

I smoked weed and it made me think alot more. Maybe thats why it's illegal. You can't have consumerist zombies then =(

Yeah, independent thought is trouble for governments fearful of evolution and correction. And Farhad, you're on to something with your consumerist zombie angle. I think I've spent/lost like $500 dollars gambling while drunk, whereas I think I've spent at most $4.95 on a burrito while high -- reduces consumption by 2 orders of magnitude.

some major methodological problems with this:

1. practice effect

2. driver was accompanied in the second trial, not in the first

3. driver knew what the experiment was testing, may have (un)intentionally manipulated the results

All I know is that when I have gotten into a car stoned and started driving I drove sooooo slow and was very very anxious, you pay so more attention that it becomes almost alarming ; one feels how powerful and dangerous cars are. Luckily, living in a city I can just ride my bike or take the train without much worry.

Just like pipp3355, I see that there are some major problems with this "experiment."

The subject even admitted that he had a more difficult time and he had to make an effort to concentrate harder.
The host admitted that the study was in NO WAY scientific or empirical.

Even though there wasn't much of any science in the video, you can find some science below:

According to the FDA, 249 medical marijuana patients were killed between 1/1/97 - 6/30/05. Marijuana, cannibis, and other Cannabinoids are listed as the secondary cause of death. It is unclear in the study how many people were prescribed marijuana between those dates.

From Wikipedia: "...a recent study by the Canadian government found cannabis contained more toxic substances than tobacco smoke. It contained 20 times more ammonia, (a carcinogen), five times more hydrogen cyanide (which can cause heart disease) and nitrous oxides, (which can cause lung damage) than tobacco smoke.

Cannabis use has been linked to exacerbating the effects of psychosis, schizophrenia, bronchitis, and emphysema by several peer-reviewed studies for those who are vulnerable to such illnesses based on personal or family history.

In July 2007, British medical journal The Lancet published a study that indicates that cannabis users have, on average, a 41% greater risk of developing psychosis than non-users. The risk was most pronounced in cases with an existing risk of psychotic disorder, and was said to grow up to 200% for the most-frequent users.

While the long term and heavy use of cannabis is not linked to the severe or grossly debilitating cerebral effects associated with chronic heavy alcohol abuse, it has been LINKED to more subtle IMPAIRMENT associated with MEMORY, ATTENTION, AND COGNITIVE FUNCTION.

If it doesn't kill you, it will most certainly make you as dumb as a bag of nails.

These are temporary effects that subside within 24hrs of consumption. while there are certainly long-term effects, the ones you listed specifically are constricted to the time period, within which, one is 'high'.

Short-term effects of marijuana, which is illegal, and handled with extreme prejudice. I tried to find a link that is as neutral and factual as possible for this reason. In fact I believe I even favored a link that is slightly leaned in opposition of marijuana use. http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/effects-of-marijuana.htm

Short-term effects of alcohol, which is certainly legal, and seemingly quite promoted by most cultures: http://www.hsc.wvu.edu/som/cmed/alcohol/short-term.htm

now tell me which you would rather be 'among the masses' with. especially on the road...

Hello, secondary cause of death?!! They most likely had terminal illness (thus the word "patients")! Most likely chemotherapy or cancer was the first cause. If they were killed as you say (as opposed to dieing), it was the feds going against state laws and busting them with bullets flying everywhere, secondary cause would then fit. As far as the mental diseases you listed, yes people with these problems tend to self medicate, not always a wise course but maybe better than some of "their" drugs! In regard to delusions, they are still less frequent and less dangerous than with alcohol. No, not a perfect test, but still a good bit of fun you would never see in the states on t.v.! Proven time and again? Sure, if you believe the ad council, this is your brain on drugs etc...Yes there's a time and place for everything but let's be adults...are your best sources really fda and wikipediea?

Even if weed is legalized, it would still be illegal to drive while under the influence (for good reason). Of course, how much is considered "dangerous" would need to be determined.

Temporary side effects only? Wrong. Research it for yourself.

When the FDA lists something as a secondary cause of death, it means it was a secondary cause of death. They were high and they did something stupid to kill themselves. ...and the majority of medical marijuana users did not have terminal illnesses.

>> ^pho3n1x:
If it doesn't kill you, it will most certainly make you as dumb as a bag of nails.
These are temporary effects that subside within 24hrs of consumption. while there are certainly long-term effects, the ones you listed specifically are constricted to the time period, within which, one is 'high'.
Short-term effects of marijuana, which is illegal, and handled with extreme prejudice. I tried to find a link that is as neutral and factual as possible for this reason. In fact I believe I even favored a link that is slightly leaned in opposition of marijuana use. http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/effects-of-marijuana.htm
Short-term effects of alcohol, which is certainly legal, and seemingly quite promoted by most cultures: http://www.hsc.wvu.edu/som/cmed/alcohol/short-term.htm
now tell me which you would rather be 'among the masses' with. especially on the road...

>> ^deedub81:
... Even though there wasn't much of any science in the video, you can find some science below:


Yow. You're an intellectual liar - You cherry picked stuff out of the article. Most things you quoted in the article were refuted in the next omitted sentence. I'll hazard to guess your reasoning is based more on the beginning of your profile "Conservative - " than on any articles you deceptively cited.

i think the links i provided means that i did research it, but umm, thanks.

l2read.

oh, and hey... secondary cause of death? why, cause they tested and found traces in their system? you know it takes upwards of a month to metabolize right? oh yeah, but you did research and i didn't...

how many list marijuana as primary cause of death? none? yeah that's cause it's near impossible.
how many list alcohol as primary cause of death? mhm. thought so.

Yeah, deedub81, you've obviously never used if you think that the symptoms you cited last longer than 24 hours, let alone 2 hours...

I love the Neo-cons who have children that drink their faces off at parties and end up getting their stomach pumped. "At least my kids aren't using illegal drugs!"

Really, guys? Some of your comments seem to prove Deedub's point. Maybe marijuana users are as dumb as a bag of nails.

Wow, I think Pinky should share a spliff with 'Dub. Maybe their vaginas would unclench and the sand would fall out.

>> ^Farhad2000:
I smoked weed and it made me think alot more. Maybe thats why it's illegal. You can't have consumerist zombies then =(


Since making this post Farhad2000 has been seen wearing a tin foil hat shouting: "QUICK! PUT THIS ON! THE SKY IS FALLING!".

It's as pointless to smoke weed as it is to argue with you intellectual giants.

I hate to have to repeat myself but one study I cited above found that:

While the long term and heavy use of cannabis is not linked to the severe or grossly debilitating cerebral effects associated with chronic heavy alcohol abuse, it has been LINKED to more subtle IMPAIRMENT associated with MEMORY, ATTENTION, AND COGNITIVE FUNCTION.


Long term use does not mean that the effects wear off in 2 hours or 24 hours. These are LONG TERM effects of using the drug. Maybe if you didn't personally suffer any long term side effects you'd have a level of reading comprehension that allowed you to catch that the first time around.


Why do pot heads always bring up alcohol when a marijuana debate arises? The fact that weed is less dangerous than alcohol is not a good arguement. Jumping off a small bridge is less dangerous than jumping off a large one, but neither is a good idea.

I don't think people should drink, but we tried making it illegal and it didn't work. I don't drink and I don't smoke weed - that doesn't mean I didn't when I was a kid. I've concluded through personal experience that marijuana is just a selfish waste of time, resourses, and energy and the use of it should be discouraged and looked down upon by society.

What are the merits of smoking marijuana?
How does it benefit individuals?
How does it effect families?
How does it benifit society?
Are users more productive because of it?
Are there harmful physical side effects?
Are there harmful emotional or mental side effects?
Would marijuana use increase if it were legalized?
Does use of marijuana effect one's judgement?


@pho3n1x: Different tests performed during autopsies can produce conclusive evidence whether the subject was high at the time of death or has simply used marijuana in the recent past.

how many list alcohol as primary cause of death? Yeah, people O.D. on cocaine, too. What's your point? See above.

you appear to believe that i support the use of either/both.
you are misinformed, and assuming an aweful lot...

as far as why "potheads" bring alcohol into the conversation is that marijuana is just the lesser of two (multiple?) evils. I can't help but compare it to a legal, highly abused, promoted-by-society substance.

oh, and regarding your statement about reading skills and comprehension? fuck you very much. i'm not a pothead, just an asshole (who apparently can't read, but at least i provide sources to what i claim as fact), i haven't found much information on the long-term effects since there hasn't been many reputable studies on the subject, but i certainly didn't find any information confirming what you claim to be long-term effects. i could only conclude then, that you were confused and were listing short-term effects specifically.

^Wrong again, my friend. I never mentioned that I thought you were a marijuana user. I was referring to other comments made by... potheads. I'm sorry if you felt wrongly accused.

Do you need citations? Okay, here:

A 2007 study by the Canadian government found cannabis smoke contained more toxic substances than tobacco smoke. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7150274.stm

Cannabis use has been assessed by several studies to be correlated with the development of anxiety, psychosis and depression.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118739270/abstract?C
RETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Links between long-term use and incidence of heart attacks, strokes, as well as abnormalities in the amygdala and hippocampus regions of the brain.
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/05/13/pot-stroke.html

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews
/story/CTVNews/20080602/marijuana_effects_080602/20080602?hub=Health

It has been estimated by the United Nations Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention that over 140 million people worldwide use marijuana. Their study has shown that marijuana is the second most common drug found in the bloodstream of those who have suffered fatal injuries.
http://www.ehow.com/about_4688712_harmful-effects-marijuana.html

Medical Marijuana? The National Multiple Sclerosis Society states that there is no convincing evidence that marijuana provides any health benefits for those with MS.
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/index.aspx

Legalization advocates point to marijuana's many claimed health benefits, such as the possible reduction of cancerous tumor growths, decrease in the number of spasms in Parkinson's and epilepsy patients, and that it is useful in the treatment of wasting syndrome caused by AIDS. However, in a study conducted by the Institute of Medicine in 1999, it was concluded that there is no medical value attached to marijuana in the treatment of these conditions. It is the belief of the British Medical Association that due to these widespread misconceptions, the public has been fooled into believing that marijuana is safe to use, when in actuality its effects have been proven harmful to health.
http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3775/5608/14066.aspx

In 1982, the National Academy of Sciences conducted a study on the health effects of marijuana on the body. The study spanned a period of 15 months, and in its closing statement says, "...the scientific evidence published to date indicates that marijuana has a broad range of psychological and biological effects, some of which, at least under certain circumstances, are harmful to a person's health."
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/nas/AMPMenu.htm

...and one of my favorites:
One study that was published in 'Neurology,' conducted by Dr. Lambros Messinis, neurologist for University Hospital of Patras in Greece, concluded that the longer a person used marijuana, the greater the deterioration of their cognitive abilities such as their ability to remember important facts and their ability to learn new things.
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/reprint/67/10/1902
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/426691/marijuana_again_
tied_to_memory_problems/

very good use of copy/paste there, but most of those don't really pertain to the subject at hand, that is, driving under the influence. i could really give a crap if someone is absorbing more toxins than cigarette smoke while driving. i'm not even sure that's an issue that was even in question, in fact.

your posts get longer and longer, with more and more irrelevant topics loosely associated with marijuana and health effects thereof when that's not really even what i was intending to discuss.

so i ask again, who would you rather be on the road near? a stoner or a drunk? legal differences aside, purely from a short-term effect point of view... 'neither' is not an acceptable answer, because it's going to happen whether you like it or not, such is life.

Deedub,

Nearly all the studies you mentioned have subsequently failed to show either causality or direct correlation between the harmful effects and the smoking of cannabis. The Lancet still ranks cannabis lower then tobacco and alcohol.

Cannabis has not been linked to a single case of mental disease nor lung cancer. Compare that to the harmful effects and deaths per year documented clearly by both tobacco and alcohol and directly correlated to both.

Give it up, Deedub. It's like arguing with several brick walls. To suggest that cannabis inherently enhances driving performance or improves your cognitive abilities is...I struggle to find a word for that level of dumb.

His performace was better because he was trying harder. He was trying harder BECAUSE HE WAS IMPAIRED AND HE KNEW IT. IMPAIRED. Impaired, impaired, impaired. Drivers should not be impaired if they can possibly avoid it. I don't care what is impairing you be it alcohol, marijuana, cell phones, or crying kids. GET OFF THE ROAD. People will die. Dead. Not sleeping.

Bad form, BBC. Try including some science in your science experiment next time.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I wouldn't drive stoned because pot makes me paranoid and it's an unpleasant experience for me as a driver. I actually don't smoke at all anymore - but I do think it should be legal. It's a very low harm recreational drug.

Deedub and thepinky - your ideology and belief system prevent you from understanding how minor the effects are. Cough syrup is way more dangerous. In your mind do you see dirty, atheist hippies when you think of pot smokers? Not trying to be mean - but sometime our belief system holds us hostage from the truth.

This from CNN in an article on the "War on Drugs"

"Last week, the former presidents of Mexico, Colombia and Brazil called for the decriminalization of marijuana for personal use and a change in strategy on the war on drugs at a meeting in Brazil of the Latin American Commission on Drugs and Democracy.

"The problem is that current policies are based on prejudices and fears and not on results," former Colombian President Cesar Gaviria said at a news conference, in which the 17-member commission's recommendations were presented."

I feel like you guys kind of embody this conservative viewpoint on pot. Sorry to beat up on you, but it's hard to find a contrary position in this pungent smoking smelling place.

I'm not saying pot is good for you. It's not at all.

- but the effects are so damn minor when compared with starving your brain cells of oxygen through alcohol consumption. What kind of idiot would do that? It's like whoofing gas.

To suggest that cannabis inherently enhances driving performance or improves your cognitive abilities is...I struggle to find a word for that level of dumb.

To suggest that any of us have stated that it "improves" your abilities is dumb. None of us have said any such thing. You can put words in our mouths all you want, but that's not what we're saying, as much as it seems you would like us to be. just remember that refuting supposed 'facts' does NOT mean that one automatically takes a position opposite of the alleged facts.

Bad form, thepinky... I said that 'neither' is not an acceptable answer, but i'm sure you didn't bother to really read that either. Maybe you're distracted by your car stereo. Pull over now or you might be deaded.

Dag, the end of your last comment is the truth if I've ever heard it.

I think that the simple truth is that some individuals in this conversation have never tried it, they never will, and they will die thinking they knew best.

Cough syrup has medicinal benifits and is not widely abused. Your argument is irrelevant.

..and the governments of Mexico, Colombia, and Brazil are extremely corrupt and not very trustworthy or scientific sources. I wouldn't listen to a country whose GDP would skyrocket by legalizing marijuana. I don't stand to benefit anything by keeping marijuana use illegal. I just think it's the best thing for society as a whole.

I would not describe the effects of marijuana as being minor. That's ridiculous. Marijuana alters your brain and hinders your ability to think straight. That's the point of smoking weed.

You can't fool me, my friend, I've been stoned many times in the past. It's been a long time, but I remember the feeling all too well.


>> ^dag:
I wouldn't drive stoned because pot makes me paranoid and it's an unpleasant experience for me as a driver. I actually don't smoke at all anymore - but I do think it should be legal. It's a very low harm recreational drug.
Deedub and thepinky - your ideology and belief system prevent you from understanding how minor the effects are. Cough syrup is way more dangerous. In your mind do you see dirty, atheist hippies when you think of pot smokers? Not trying to be mean - but sometime our belief system holds us hostage from the truth.
This from CNN in an article on the "War on Drugs"
"Last week, the former presidents of Mexico, Colombia and Brazil called for the decriminalization of marijuana for personal use and a change in strategy on the war on drugs at a meeting in Brazil of the Latin American Commission on Drugs and Democracy.
"The problem is that current policies are based on prejudices and fears and not on results," former Colombian President Cesar Gaviria said at a news conference, in which the 17-member commission's recommendations were presented."
I feel like you guys kind of embody this conservative viewpoint on pot. Sorry to beat up on you, but it's hard to find a contrary position in this pungent smoking smelling place.
I'm not saying pot is good for you. It's not at all.
- but the effects are so damn minor when compared with starving your brain cells of oxygen through alcohol consumption. What kind of idiot would do that? It's like whoofing gas.

Cough syrup has medicinal benifits and is not widely abused.

WRONG! good lord that is such an incorrect statement. seriously?
take a minute to look up "cough syrup abuse" on any popular search engine.

I wouldn't listen to a country whose GDP would skyrocket by legalizing marijuana.
do some research on that too, cause i think you'll be surprised.

whatever though. we're obviously two brick walls talking to one another. you've made up your mind what's wrong and right, and no amount of intellectual discourse is going to change either of our opinions on the subject.

agree to disagree.

Show me that the good outweighs the bad and I'll gladly change my stance.

Do you have any facts to back up your statements? I do.

A 2006 study called Monitoring Their Future found that four percent of eighth graders and seven percent of twelfth graders had tried cough medicines to get high.

Contrast that with thirty-two percent of 12th graders admitting to regular marijuana use and thirty pecent admitting to having been "drunk" at least once in the past 30 days.
http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pressreleases/06drugpr.pdf

Sure, cough syrup abuse is a problem, but I think we can agree that cough syrup serves a valuable purpose and is not one of the larger problems when it comes to substance abuse. I had a cold last week so I can say with added emphasis: Thanks goodness for nyquil!

i'm pretty much done with this because i've said all i care to say about the subject but i can't help but notice that you're comparing apples and oranges.

you've compared Audience 1 (Substance 1) to Audience 2 (Substance 2).

how can you expect to compare how often 12-14 year olds use cough syrup, to 16-18 year olds using marijuana? it's not even a rational discussion point so much as you've just coughed up facts that favor your stance by using larger percentage values.


Kittens injure 32% of people by age 25.
Killer Bees injure less than 2% of people by age 10.
Clearly kittens are a bane on society and must be abolished at any cost!


End of Line.


[edit]: Looked at your link and found a proper comparison for you.

Marijuana
In 2006 the annual prevalence for marijuana was 12 percent in 8th grade, 25 percent in 10th grade, and 32 percent in 12th grade.

Over-the-counter cough or cold medications
The proportions of students reporting having used these drugs during the prior year for the purpose of getting high were 4 percent, 5 percent, and 7 percent in grades 8, 10, and 12.

discuss as you will, but you'll be talking to yourself. I'm done, but I couldn't stand by and watch you mislead everyone else with cherry-picked numbers that inflate the visibility of your stance while lending absolutely nothing to the discussion of (look at the title of the video) Weed and Driving.

So far everytime, without fail, you've misread information that I've posted.

A 2006 study called Monitoring Their Future found that four percent of eighth graders and seven percent of twelfth graders had tried cough medicines to get high.


I didn't omit an apples to apples comparison as you allege. I included stats on 12th graders for every substance I listed. I didn't cherry pick anything. I selected pertinant information relative to the discussion that evolved.

So deedub81 can neither handle a joint nor a drink and that's why he's gonna discourage all of us from enjoying these two things in moderation.

deedub81 and thepinky: You're completely missing the point this video is trying to make. It's not trying to say that it's ok to drive while stoned. The simple question is: Why is alcohol legal and pot illegal? This video explores the DUI aspect of this question and once again there's no good answer to it.