When you've got the gist, jump to minute 4.35 for the full quote.
Source: Sam Harris - 'Honesty: The Muslim World's Scarcest Resource?' -
http://bit.ly/lJv5Wc Jonathan A.C. Brown - 'Hadith: Muhammad's Legacy in the Medieval and Modern World' -
http://bit.ly/k4hUzo Arsalan Iftikhar - 'Murder has no religion' -
http://bit.ly/jLTMXv Bill Maher and Muslim Rep. Keith Ellison -
http://youtu.be/mVTK_XffAvk From Translations of the Qur'an USC (
http://bit.ly/mmhSI1):
005.032
YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
PICKTHAL: For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.
SHAKIR: For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.
005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
PICKTHAL: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
13 Comments
rottenseedwow this video requires a lot of work on my behalf...I'm off to find a cat video. I heard nyan cat vids are making their rounds again
JanuariSo basically the point is it's like all other "Holy" books in that if you sift through all the BS and violence... and hate... you can find some really humane and wise passages as long as you pick and chose...
hpqpPity this video takes such a long, convoluted route to such a simple conclusion.
EMPIREsays...Holy books are full of absolute bullshit, lies and horrible actions... News at 10!
quantumushroomhttp://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm
"Peaceful" Muslims who disavow the commands to violence
against infidels in their holy books (or have not read them) are enemies of Islam.
chilaxeThe video doesn't really explain itself, and neither does the videosift description, so this is my understanding of the video's argument:
1. Muslims use this peaceful quote as a defense of the Koran.
2. The Koran does indeed contain that quote, ch. 5 verse 32, but the next verse, 33, doesn't extend that niceness to people 'who wage war against Allah and make mischief in the land,' calling for their execution.
That seems like a fair point, and Muslims should definitely be forthcoming about it instead of getting defensive, but verse 33 doesn't actually seem to me to be bad at all if you interpret it the right way.
(The full verses can be read in multiple translations at the link provided in the videosift description: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/005.qmt.html )
siftbotTags for this video have been changed from 'Quran, lawyered' to 'Quran, lawyered, verse 32 and 33 conflict' - edited by chilaxe
chilaxeI've added the thesis of the video ("verse 32 and 33 conflict") to the tags, because the video, the video title, and the videosift description never actually state the video's thesis.
messengerRight. I'm pretty sure Al-Queda has defined "mischief" or "corruption" as, "having a presence on Muslim land while displaying faith in the wrong religion"; and in the case of offending governments, defined the offender as, "all citizens of that country."
I think it's best to leave decisions about whom to kill to those who don't follow any religion, and who decide based on what's best for society (Who decides what's good for society is a conversation you and I are having in another thread, but I'd trust that outcome more than a religious one).>> ^chilaxe:
...verse 33 doesn't actually seem to me to be bad at all if you interpret it the right way.
DerHasisttot>> ^chilaxe:
(The full verses can be read in multiple translations at the link provided in the videosift description: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement
/resources/texts/muslim/quran/005.qmt.html )
Or under the video here... from the time I posted it...
hpqp>> ^chilaxe:
The video doesn't really explain itself, and neither does the videosift description, so this is my understanding of the video's argument:
1. Muslims use this peaceful quote as a defense of the Koran.
2. The Koran does indeed contain that quote, ch. 5 verse 32, but the next verse, 33, doesn't extend that niceness to people 'who wage war against Allah and make mischief in the land,' calling for their execution.
That seems like a fair point, and Muslims should definitely be forthcoming about it instead of getting defensive, but verse 33 doesn't actually seem to me to be bad at all if you interpret it the right way.
(The full verses can be read in multiple translations at the link provided in the videosift description: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement
/resources/texts/muslim/quran/005.qmt.html )
No, verse 33 is terrible in and of itself. What is "spreading corruption"? Being of the wrong religion (or, worse, of none), for example? Being gay, or an "adulteress" woman? The list goes on.
doogle*dead
siftbotThis video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by doogle.
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