*requeue

Re-queueing this video for one more try; last queued Friday, November 23rd, 2007 10:20pm PST - requeue requested by submitter Zifnab.

Haha, I like the ending with Stewie's voice.

I think we should all go on strike for better healthcare and retirement benefits.

this must be by far the best speech yet given by a WGA strike supporter (not that the other ones were any bad, really).

p.s. god, do I miss 24 already.

Maybe this will get prople to watch more educational type television or even do something other than watch TV.

I get that they want a better percentage of DVD sales, and a percentage of internet sales and all that, and I don't disagree with them wanting a larger percentage. I believe they have the right to negotiate their contracts any way they see fit as long as the people they're negotiating with agree to their terms. That's how the rest of the nation operates, but that's not good enough for Hollywood. No. Hollywood has to be special.

If you are building a home and you're looking to hire a plumber, wouldn't you check to see who has the lowest price and negotiate a price with them? If there was only one plumber in the area, then your ability to negotiate would be largely hindered, because there's no competition. Though, if there were a slew of plumbers, then negotiations would be easier, because you'd have a lot of competition in the market, so the plumbers would have to come down on their prices in order to be competitive.

Everyone comes out to Hollywood thinking they're going to be the next Robert Towne, and because movie making can be lucrative and there's this romantic notion that comes from being a screenwriter, there are so many people who have come out here and saturated the marketplace, so the studios don't have to negotiate a better deal for the writers. But, instead of operating like the rest of the nation, Hollywood has to have guilds and unions and all that garbage to "protect" the already too many workers. If the workers wanted a better share of profits, they could just refuse to work for the money the studios are offering, but they know, just as I do, that someone else would come by and take their place and do it for less.

"blankfist": You think hollywood is the only place with unions? Dear god, that's misinformed. You think that the best way to get plumbing done is to hire the absolute cheapest plumber? I look forward to you being washed away in a sea of effluent.

Unions are built because individuals have very little power on their own to begin with. As they work their way through their career, build a reputation, become a wanted commodity, they can command larger salaries etc. This is true in ANY industry. The issue comes AT THE START. If you're an entry level *insert chosen profession here* you expect to not be paid a great deal of money necessarily, but at the same time you'd like enough to actually live on and not starve to death. Individually, when you have nothing to particularly distinguish you from the next guy (as you haven't been able to work yet and show your mettle) and as such you have no bargaining power so you pretty much have to take what's offered.

Unions ensure that these base level wages are FAIR and JUST.

So your completely ridiculous notion of everyone should work for the least amount possible is complete and utter tripe. UTTER tripe.

Think about what you're saying for a little bit and maybe you'd see that it's very, very flawed.

Let me guess, you're in a highly skilled industry where this is never an issue and so you look upon the rabble below you and think that they should be thankful for what they get?

Elitist.

I'm not sure I get your point, spoco2, but I can certainly say you seem passionate about it. Which is good. You deserve a comment upvote for that. I'm not an elitist by any stretch, so I apologize if my rant sounded that way. I am actually a filmmaker, to be honest, and a lot of my friends have been affected by the strike here in LA, so I do have a pretty keen perspective of what's going on outside of the occasional YouTube fanfare which highlights the writer's perspectives only. I've also worked as a programmer, so if that puts me in a "highly skilled industry", then I'm afraid I cannot safely say I've ever (dare even wanted to) look upon the [ahem] rabble below and think them to be thankful for what they have.

I never said Hollywood is the only place with unions. I was trying to point out their sense of entitlement, which maybe I failed at. Sorry. Unions typically are formed to protect workers from egregious work conditions such as long hours and low pay, et cetera. But what separates Hollywood unions from these other unions is this: name another union except those in Hollwyood where the members can stand to make several million a year. Who needs protecting now? And, before you start in on me saying "not everybody makes that much in Hollywood" yaddi yaddi yadda, let me stop you there and point out that my original point was that Hollywood isn't a place where people come because it's the last chance they have at making a career for themselves. No. they come here because they want to be the next Terry Rossio or Steven Speilberg or whoever. No one moves to Lorain, Ohio to be the next Adam Smith who works the blast furnace all day. Make sense?

I believe in people negotiating their own contracts in business. Period. If the market is over saturated with workers, then the workers shouldn't be trying to hold the business owner's feet to the fire in order to take a better cut. If they want a better cut and they cannot negotiate it due to the over abundance of competition, then they have to do what everyone else does and find capital to open their own business, et cetera. [sigh] It's just basic business.

@ blankfist :

have you seen this post? http://www.videosift.com/video/The-reasons-why-hollywood-writers-have-gone-on-strike

its very informative

Some good labour *politics here. *woohoo for the statements of support from the Groeningian side too, from what I read on snpp.com

BTW, blankfist, plumbers and tradespeople also have unions (guilds) in most Western countries.

And to answer the other question, successful electricians and other tradespeople can climb into those ranks, although you're probably running your own business by the point you're hitting the upper 6-digits, but then, 'top writers' are equivalent to tradespeople running their own businesses.

Adding video to channels (Politics, Woohoo) - requested by Krupo.

Thanks for the input, Krupo and bamdrew. Great points! And I did actually watch that video already, bamdrew.

Krupo, an electrician that opens his own business is now an entrepreneur. He's got more in common with the studios (or at the very least, production companies) than he does with the writers in that analogy, I think. Writers are more like the individual electricians: they're pivate contractors. So, the electrician turned entrepreneur will have to negotiate pay and terms with other electricians to do the work for him, much like the studios hiring on the writers. Top writers are still contractors, but contractors who are paid very, very well. I think my question remains unanswered: name another union or guild where its members can stand to make millions in a year? I know of none.

And, for the record, I just want to say I am for the writers getting what they want, because I believe they deserve their 2.5% on DVD sales and a percentage of internet sales, and I also believe the studios are greedy bastards. There, I said it. I am, however, against the unions strong-arming the studios by organizing and striking, and ultimately ostracizing anyone else (typically through black listing) who's willing to do the job they're not willing to do for less money. It's unfair to business owners and unfair to people who should have the right to work inside what is currently (and unfairly) a nepotistic industry.

So, you are for the demands that the writers are asking for, which is good, because as I see it they aren't asking for anything horrendously over the top. You are also in the industry, so I give you points for not talking from the proverbial rear end.

The point should not be whether the writers can or do earn millions once they've worked their way up a ladder long enough, the point is that how much is the minimum wage in the industry? How much do the majority make?

You keep coming back to the case that if someone is willing to do something for less money then they should be allowed to, but that just leads to either:

* Everything being of the lowest possible quality
OR
* Things actually being of a good quality because those willing to work for less were actually talented, just wanted a foot in... BUT then said talented people are stuck because big business says "Nope, we're not raising your pay because, frankly, there are people who are willing to work for peanuts, just like you did... so either continue to work for peanuts... for ever, or goodbye."

Working on the mantra of "Whoever will do it for less" is a road to... well, a road to somewhere not very pleasant.

Black listing those who go against a strike is something that's done in every industry there's unions and there's strikes, it's a case of individuals seeing an opportunity to make money for themselves, without looking at any larger picture. They may well make money in the short term, but all those that do this are doing is making things worse for everyone and it's only a matter of time before they realize they've screwed themselves. As such, while black listing may be a bit harsh, it's also an insentive for people to really think about what they're doing by not supporting what the vast majority of those in their very industry is rooting for.

You bring up a good point. People typically think that in business the business owners will go for the cheaper labor always. Well, if this was picking fruit or carrying shingles or some other form of grunt work, then yes they would. That's what minimum wage is for, to keep the business owners from exploiting the uneducated or underprivileged in those jobs. But, being a business owner myself, I can say this: for a business where there is a learned trade or creative skill (such as writing) we don't want the lowest possible quality, so if someone is worth their amount, then we'd pay it.

And, it doesn't work to try to force people into being paid peanuts, either, because if you hire on an entry-level person, then obviously you pay them very little, but the trade off is that they get to learn on the job, which in some industries (especially trade industries) that's key! And once they've learned the job, then they're valuable, and it's common to raise their salary or hourly wage. I believe it should be the same for writers. If you're worth 12 million per picture, then you will be paid that. But, not too many writers can pull that sort of scratch off. Still, if a writer starts out getting paid peanuts and the studio never decides to increase his/her pay, someone else will increase it if he's/she's worth it. That's the way it works in business, and I still think their organizing is strong-arming the studios and threatening non-union workers who should have a right to a liveliehood.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

blankfist - do you think electricians and plumbers don't have unions? Go try and get a job as a "free-lance" electrician and see how that works out.

I have known screen-writers in general they are usually very much at the low-end of the pay-scale. Gaffers and even other crew members can wind-up making much more than writers.

I think there really is a lot of misconception about the "glamorous" lifestyle of a screen writer. On a per capita basis - I bet plumbers do better- but then, they have a very strong union.

No, I know they have unions. I guess I wasn't being very clear, because you're not the first to ask me that, dag. Or people aren't reading my comments before responding to them. Hmmm...

Though, I guess my point was not so much about proving or disproving whether unions exist, but rather I was trying to illustrate a simple analogy (that snowballed out of control, apparently) about me picking up the yellow pages and calling a plumber and getting price quotes. From there, it's really gotten off point, so... moving on?

Yes, my good friend is (rather was thanks to the strikes) writing a nice little Warner Bros. script for a big actress, and although that sounds exciting, it wasn't the goldmine you'd think it would be. To be clear, I'm not debating whether they should or shouldn't get paid more, either. So, yeah, these are things I am NOT debating. And, I'm the very first person to say filmmaking is anything BUT glamorous. Screenwriting is probably the most glamorous aspect of filmmaking, because crew is pretty much the pits. And, I love it.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Heh - OK blankfist. I think we now know very clearly what your point wasn't.

LOL. Well, at least I accomplished that much.

So, one thing to mention...

The product that writers make can be described as one object, the single movie/show script (they sold their artistic expertise to create one document, which was translated into the final product, like an architect or designer).
Or, the product the writers make can be described as part of every copy of that movie/show (they contributed significantly to each experience that the product gives to buyers, like an author, musician, or director).

I built some weak analogies into that framework, but feel free to use it to create your own to argue on whatever side of the picket line you wish.

Ok, stop stroking each other off and decide who's right already!

Just kidding, all points of views seem to be valid (at least to me). In certain circumstances (construction for example) unions are in many ways obsolete as you are just a number within a pool of employees riding the hiring and firing wave at the mercy of the seasons and the economy. Merit shops (non-union companies) usually run in niches in the market where they can hire and keep specialized, seasoned and talented professionals. That's not to say there's no "talent" in these unions, nor layoffs don't happen in merit shops. Unions can sometimes hinder the growth of a company and since the government has stepped in with health and safety laws as well as overtime laws and standards, unions aren't AS necessary (they do have their benefits AND drawbacks).

That being clarified (or at least an attempt to) I suppose a union that supports a group where there are standards in pay and royalties would be absolutely necessary. How is a brilliant writer going to go into an office and negotiate some reasonable 3% royalties when everybody else is only recieving 2% or whatever the numbers are. For this standard to be changed, you need a large force to move it and there's no real governing force other than that union. It's not like the government is going to come in and say that FOX must make sure all writers have a sharp no. 2 pencils and recieve 3% royalties. A union is a necessary evil in this situation because the industry has the individual by the balls, but not the union as a whole.

Yeah, I hate nepotistic regimes. I wonder of all the new 'discoveries' (all 2 or 3 of them?) on the intar-web will change all that? Should be interesting to see how this 'citizen media' and "websites where people view each others' video clips" fad goes off to.

I'm about to roll off my 'apprenticeship' period in the big 4 accounting industry. I recall just comparing the apprenticeship model and the similarities/differences with one of my friends doing the same thing in a 'hard' apprenticeship field - electricity.

Interesting to see how many parallels there are - save for the fact that on my side you don't really get unions.

Nepotism is the shadow of a dynasty.

The crap they churn out isn't worth what they get now. Read books and make snappy comments online instead.

No butt stuff...OK, butt stuff.