wow. calling burqas fascist really tells you went to the best schools. Just a scare word for idiots to flock about.

wikipedia:

The word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. – George Orwell, What is Fascism?. 1944.

And Orwell knew this in 1944!

>> ^bluecliff:
wow. calling burqas fascist really tells you went to the best schools. Just a scare word for idiots to flock about.
wikipedia:
The word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. – George Orwell, What is Fascism?. 1944.
And Orwell knew this in 1944!


True, the word "fascist" gets used far too often, but when it comes to describing Islam, it's pretty accurate.

FYI, fascism is defined as: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, [...] and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

It's not exact, but it describes Islam pretty well... then again, it describes Christianity too...

*islam *controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy, Islam) - requested by EndAll.

yes, let us listen only to those who went to 'the best schools'

way to omit every other valid point he made, bluecliff

i had to stop watching at 4:00.
i usually enjoy mr condell's rants against religion,but this is borderline hysteria.
his problem is not with islam but with islamic extremists,who have hi-jacked islam to suit their own agendas by indoctrinating the poorly educated into a fundamentalist,and wrong,interpretation of islam.
he has bought into the propaganda and uses it to forward his uneducated rant.
do some islamic cultures use islam to oppress women?...yes.
is this truly indicative of the original teachings of islam?...no.
while i totally agree with mr condell on the perils of fundamentalist and absolutist thinking concerning religion,mainly islam and christianity,his broad strokes condemning a whole region of people based on such poor knowledge of religious history is just sad.
learn of which you speak before you speak it.
this is not one of mr condell's finer moments.

>> ^bluecliff:
wow. calling burqas fascist really tells you went to the best schools. Just a scare word for idiots to flock about.
wikipedia:
The word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. – George Orwell, What is Fascism?. 1944.
And Orwell knew this in 1944!

Pot, meet Mr. Black Kettle

Anybody who has been to an average school let alone the "best" would know that quoting wikipedia as a source of your argument is a NO-NO.

There is utilitarian side to the burqa... for those in the desert regions, anyway...

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-65287.html

but thats not really related to why they are worn for 'religious' reasons.

I dont really know how the burqa is constructed but it would seem to have some of these properties

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_some_desert_nomads_wear_black_robes

>> ^rottenseed:
Anybody who has been to an average school let alone the "best" would know that quoting wikipedia as a source of your argument is a NO-NO.


Why? It's about as accurate as any other encyclopedia and certainly more up to date.

Would it have been better if he said the quote was from orwell.ru?

This idea that Wikipedia is useless is ridiculous. Read it with some skepticism, as you should with any encyclopedia, and check the source citations, which may not be an option with a traditional encyclopedia.

Interesting video. In fact I think it's a very good video and I really agree with most of those points. A short time ago I definitely would not have done so.

Like many I have previously taken this view that Islam is a religion that's been "hijacked" by fundamentalists. And that Islam is not something we should fear. Through all of this though, my centre-left leaning self has not felt quite right about it. There are too many nutty things in Islam that cause disquiet. I also have an Indian friend who's always been critical about the religion, is very knowledgeable about events in India/Pakistan, and what Islam does to it's practitioners from the most benign individuals to the most fundamental. It's been a series of fairly light discussions over the years with me arguing back but recently I've started to come around to his stance.

I've also watched some very interesting videos that join up neatly with what my friend said about what the Koran actually preaches and what messages it actually sends to its followers.

Islam - What the West Needs to Know - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjq5Vi9Gc68

That's the first part of 10. Watch it with an open mind like I did. It is extremely interesting. There is nothing hateful about it. It features scholars and ex-muslims.

Nevertheless I think what's really sown the seeds of suspicion for me is the workaday, normal(ish) encounters I've had with some British muslims over the last few years. Encounters that have made me do double-takes and think that these people are really "different". One devout guy I knew through my sister, who worked with him on various jobs. Nice guy, reliable, honest. He even came to my mum's funeral a few years ago and offered my sister money claiming he had to because of "his religion". I'd have to check if she took it or not because I'm not sure. At the time I didn't know what to make of it, I just remember being surprised. I do know we were all pretty vulnerable at that point.

A while later (my memory for times and dates is pretty shaky, sorry), I get a call from her saying that this same guy now wants her to marry his brother or cousin so he can get into the country. And that if not,could he marry her friend? I was apoplectic.

And there have been a few others like that though that's been the worst. Everyone else I know - and I know a broad range - including a very committed Christian who's basically running his own church have not tried to pull these kinds of weird stunts or have this detached/skewed - I'm grasping for the right word here - world-view.

Anyway, this is all rather a big deal for me and it's a subject that has been preying on my mind. I can't say I'm any kind of expert on this nor could I debate it that well right now but I no longer believe that it's just fundamentalists making trouble.

Found a couple of sites that made interesting reading, warning though, the second site seems to link to right-wing stuff, but again that's not my political orientation.

http://www.reformislam.org/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/

The bottom line for me is that alot of us don't know enough about Islam and haven't sought to educate ourselves. Having started this process Pat's "cultural jihad" comment really resonated for me.

Anyway if anyone has a comment on that video then I'd like to hear your opinion.

do some islamic cultures use islam to oppress women?...yes.
is this truly indicative of the original teachings of islam?...no.

You know, it would be interesting to find out more about these elusive "original teachings" of different religions, they always seems to be perfectly aligned with modern, secular, liberal values of the most gentle kind. I guess the "original" islamists knew exactly how to ignore the right verses of the Quran, like the ones describing how a womans word is worth half that of a mans word, or how they are generally impure and have to stay away from funerals, prayer etc

Because, you know, when I read the Quran, I see none of this liberal stuff shining through, on every page it seems to demand one hundred percent submission to the one true god, and descibe how unbelievers who have heard of this god (and rejected it) will burn in hell forever, unless they later embrace Islam. I seem to remember Jews being compared to "Apes and pigs", Christians and unbelievers being treated as some for of disease you'd better avoid, women as birthmachines that we (the readers, who are always men) must pretend to own and raise like we do with cattle.

If I didnt know better, I think I'd describe the Quran as a book that , if you actually followed it teachings, you'd look like Osama bin Laden or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and nothing like a liberal leftie at all.