In the tags, what is "thermate"?

In reply to your comment:
“In the tags, what is "thermate"?”

Many people believe that the molten steel or iron that is shown in a couple of 9/11 and post-9/11 videos is caused by a patented demolition charge coil that is normally wrapped around a steel column in order to cut it cleanly and quickly.

Patent info"
http://www.dodtechmatch.com/DOD/Patent/PatentDetail.aspx?type=description&id=6766744

Analysis of steel samples from WTC steel:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml

"Thermate is an incendiary compound used for military applications. Thermate, whose primary component is thermite, also contains sulfur and possibly barium nitrate, both of which increase its thermal effect, create flame in burning, and significantly reduce the ignition temperature. Various mixtures of these compounds can be called thermate, but, to avoid confusion with Thermate-TH3, one can refer to them as thermite variants or analogs. The composition by weight of Thermate-TH3 (in military use) is 68.7% thermite, 29.0% barium nitrate, 2.0% sulfur and 0.3% binder."
- Wikipedia 06/24/07

For reference to evidence that I cannot believe NIST can even try to pretend not knowing about. http://www.google.com/search?&q=WTC+meteorite

I spent years as a pyro in boy scouts, so I know what I'm talking about.

I can make a fire hot enough to melt aluminum cans with just charcoal a few coffee cans with the tops and bottoms removed, and a steel grate. In a large-scale fire you could get hotter by pre-heating the air intake. Then you could pre-heat the air intake to the inner pre-heating fires and make the center even hotter... and so on in as many stages as you want until your inner apparatus melts. I suppose this sort of thing could occur naturally too.

The firefighters who thought they saw molten steel had no way of knowing it wasn't molten aluminum, anyway. Glowing molten metals look the same. There was a huge amount of combustible material in the towers, like paper, furniture, cubicle walls, etc etc. The maximum temperature a fire can reach depends on its structure, and the temperature and oxygen content of the air coming into it.

thats not the Pyscho Paranoid Team Spirit, jwray....

Ok.. but this video is just showing that the NIST engineer is flat out denying the existence of molten material. It's not saying difinitively what the material is, just that the engineer had no clue even though the video-documented reports after 911 shows the molten material and people describing the persistent raging heat. If he was on the scene investigating then he would have known that don't you think?

I don't understand why an unusually high percentile of people have to be so negative on the subject and take things out of context like this and throw in immature comments.

The video is edited to make it seem like the speaker has no other explanation than 'controlled demolition did it'. It's more likely he's keeping any possibilities open, as any scientist would - as opposed to having a preformed conclusion before looking at the facts.

Lets say it was deliberately razed by explosives... Who ordered this? Why as no document ever been leaked about the plans for these demolition charges in the blueprints or wherever? Things just don't stay secret forever, i'm sorry to break it to you.

How can it be thought a government as incompetant as the current, be capable of keeping a secret as big as this? Given how much we now know about their ignorance of the danger of Al'Qaeda prior to Sept. 11th, the hastiness to believe any heresay for WMDs in Iraq, the poorness of planning in the invasion and so on...

In reply to your comment:
“
Lets say it was deliberately razed by explosives... Who ordered this? Why as no document ever been leaked about the plans for these demolition charges in the blueprints or wherever? Things just don't stay secret forever, i'm sorry to break it to you. ...”

Is that true? We have knowledge of all the secrets of history, of all facets of society? More documents may show up 30-40 years later when the freedom of information act declassifies that time-period of administrative documents. Evidence can also be destroyed can it not? With this in mind one cannot say for certain that all secrets come to light of public scrutiny. This combined with the efforts of individuals more than ready to quicky refute the notion of corruption and intimidation of military and political personnel (if you've been in the military then you know what I mean) enables the suppression of secret information.
The military and politician conjecture (and for some good reasons I might add) on classified and secret documents is that it's not "in the interest of the public" (need to know). These are some of the complexities of public and military policy intertwined at the executive level which must be adhered to however also allow the manipulation by upper echelon powers. Our forefathers vehemently warned us of corruption and deception by the powers that come into be in government.

In reply to your comment:
“
How can it be thought a government as incompetant as the current, be capable of keeping a secret as big as this? Given how much we now know about their ignorance of the danger of Al'Qaeda prior to Sept. 11th, the hastiness to believe any heresay for WMDs in Iraq, the poorness of planning in the invasion and so on...”

Is there an intelligence behind our government you ask? People are not necessarily stupid yet can be manipulated can they not? This administration may seem incompetent however I believe they are masterminds of deception and persuasion. Only time will tell. Unfortunately if they do succeed in completing their full-scale terror campaign, we may lose ALL of our civil liberties and our Constitutional rights. While that would be a worse-case scenario and something I know we all would never want to have happen then pray with me on this note that I am wrong. I hope for all of us that I am.

Well the JFK assassination was whitewashed and covered up for this long. And the official version of those events is another fairytale.

This "incompetent" government has managed to invade the Middle East, has complete control of the media, has stomped on free speech and removed liberties, ignored human rights in the US and the rest of the world, is building concentration camps, torturing civilians, punishing people for their political beliefs, and is doing it all in broad daylight and to their own agenda, unanswerable, unstoppable and unaccountable.

Not incompetent in the slightest.

The claim that Gross denies the existence of any molten material is straightforwardly and demonstrably false. Those asking the questions in the video specifically make claims as to the existence of molten steel. Gross explains that he's seen no evidence for the existence of molten steel. As jwray has pointed out, the most parsimonious explanation is that the fire fighters actually witnessed molten aluminum.

Lastly, once again, Constitutional_Patriot is committing the argument from ignorance fallacy. He's claiming that because one can never be absolutely certain that there wasn't a conspiracy, it's reasonable to assume that there was. Further, as far as I'm aware, the claim that the fire fighters are now "under a gag order" is simply a lie.

In reply to your comment:
“
Lastly, once again, Constitutional_Patriot is committing the argument from ignorance fallacy. He's claiming that because one can never be absolutely certain that there wasn't a conspiracy, it's reasonable to assume that there was. Further, as far as I'm aware, the claim that the fire fighters are now "under a gag order" is simply a lie.”

Ignorance huh? It's conjecture from observations not an absolute determination you seem to think I have. All I'm saying is that a conspiracy MAY exist. For an investigative engineer he should have already known about the molten material. Apparently your just skimming my comments and not really reading them.

For what it's worth, (speaking very technically) I agree with you; a conspiracy may exist. It's enormously unlikely and there's nothing in the way of compelling evidence to support the idea, but it's at least possible -- just as it's at least possible that the Earth is really flat and that we're all being lied to as part of some vast and multilateral act of perfidy. None of this, however, renders either flat-earthism or 9/11 conspiracy theories even faintly rational.

Further, there's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. In your second post in this thread, you straightforwardly claimed that Gross denies the existence of any molten material and also that the video doesn't specifically refer to steel. Both of these claims are simply false. Moreover, there's nothing to suggest that Gross was unaware of the existence of molten materials at the site; there's nothing to suggest he was unaware of intense heat at the site either. Something he does claim to be unaware of is the supposed thermographic images which show temperatures compatible with molten steel. There's a good reason for this -- the images in question show no such thing. Incidentally, given that the NIST report explicitly mentions the molten material and concludes that it's probably aluminum, it's perfectly clear that they're well aware of it.

"just as it's at least possible that the Earth is really flat"

Yah, sure ok. <<rolls eyes>>

Well, now I can see that you willfully and intentionally post dishonest and misleading quotations. So, you're deceitful and a liar as well as startlingly ignorant.

Spare me, please.. I'm just showing the audacity that you have no qualms about spouting such retarded statements as equating my thoughts to the thought of the world being flat and when I show that I think your being fececiously rude, you get upset and call me deceitful for not liking your preposterous comment.

You're being dishonest again. You know full well I'm not criticising you because you "don't like" my comment. I'm criticising you because you took one fragment of one sentence completely out of context in order to make it appear to mean something that it does not. In other words, you deceitfully and intentionally misrepresented it. Previously, I'd assumed that you'd merely been haplessly misled by the conspiracy theorists. You've now clearly shown, however, that you're perfectly willing to lie and deceive of your own volition. Further, I notice you've gone rather quiet on the issue on 9/11.

*dead

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